Rarity of certain recipies and cause?
By
Black_Mute,
Posted on: 2010-05-05 18:53 in The Market and Inventions
high price of certain rare items is mostly due to the extremely high demand for them, LOTG +rech, miracle +recov, are a few prime examples
however there are other sets and such that are also very high demand such as kinetic combat which go in prices from 40 mil to 200 mil (on the BM, dont know about heroside)
they have approx the same % chance to drop as anything else in the pool, but due to the extremely high demand poeple are willing to pay higher prices for them and they get bought out from market faster than supplied
What level are you talking about? I'm assuming 28-33?
Level 50 tends to be much better supplied. A mix of Merits and faster leveling has made midlevel stuff harder to get ahold of, especially on the BM. Redside, I tend to hold on to Mertis to make direct buys of the things the BM just doesn't supply much of.
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I was talking about lack of certain items not prices.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
high price of certain rare items is mostly due to the extremely high demand for them, LOTG +rech, miracle +recov, are a few prime examples
however there are other sets and such that are also very high demand such as kinetic combat which go in prices from 40 mil to 200 mil (on the BM, dont know about heroside) they have approx the same % chance to drop as anything else in the pool, but due to the extremely high demand poeple are willing to pay higher prices for them and they get bought out from market faster than supplied |
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
What level are you talking about? I'm assuming 28-33?
Level 50 tends to be much better supplied. A mix of Merits and faster leveling has made midlevel stuff harder to get ahold of, especially on the BM. Redside, I tend to hold on to Mertis to make direct buys of the things the BM just doesn't supply much of. |
Its Pool C, ie drops from Merit rolls rather than defeats or missions.
Its got good set bonuses (especially +2.5% to all positions for 6 slots).
Absolutely anyone can use it, since it fits into Tactics, even if you are one of the few archetypes without a Build Up style power.
These three things are what makes recipes cost the most and disappear the fastest from the market when they do drop.
I see what you mean. All I can say is, make lots of bids over several levels to try to catch an IO fish in your net. Bid on both Recipes and crafted IOs. Make sure your bids are higher than the highest of the last 5. Save Merits for direct-purchases of the items that cannot be had at any price on the market. Most of all, look forward to Going Rogue's market fix.
It really isn't any fun when you have the money, but there's just no supply to be had.
A "trading card" approach to getting IOs would have been better than a market. A market is doomed to mudflation and supply shortages. A "trading card" system would've had none of those difficulties. But the market's here, it isn't going anywhere, so what can you do but make the best of it?
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There are a lot of other things that are in high demand that can be slotted by several AT´s that are being supplied at a good rate.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Its Pool C, ie drops from Merit rolls rather than defeats or missions.
Its got good set bonuses (especially +2.5% to all positions for 6 slots). Absolutely anyone can use it, since it fits into Tactics, even if you are one of the few archetypes without a Build Up style power. These three things are what makes recipes cost the most and disappear the fastest from the market when they do drop. |
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They seem to be hard to come by blueside as well.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
I see what you mean. All I can say is, make lots of bids over several levels to try to catch an IO fish in your net. Bid on both Recipes and crafted IOs. Make sure your bids are higher than the highest of the last 5. Save Merits for direct-purchases of the items that cannot be had at any price on the market. Most of all, look forward to Going Rogue's market fix.
It really isn't any fun when you have the money, but there's just no supply to be had. A "trading card" approach to getting IOs would have been better than a market. A market is doomed to mudflation and supply shortages. A "trading card" system would've had none of those difficulties. But the market's here, it isn't going anywhere, so what can you do but make the best of it? |
Possibly the Gaussian +Rech/End IO looks worthless, it gets deleted more than say a LotG +Rech or a anti-KB IO?
Imagining I'm a casual player (ie someone who doesn't read this forum and Red Tomax or Paragon Wiki several times a day) if I got a Gaussian's +Rech/End I'd probably think "Oh, its one of those set-fillers like a Resistance set's Rech/End, ie it doesnt contribute to the primary attribute of the power type. I'll delete or vendor it". Kind of like when you do a random roll and get a snipe or something.
If I get a LotG +Recharge or -KB IO its immediately obvious that its something a bit out of the ordinary and I'd at least check the price.
Although, the idea of people rolling a recipe with merits and then not even checking seems a bit odd...
I'll add to what others are saying in that it's rare because you need all six for the 2.5% +def to all.
Kinetic combat dam/ends appear silly blue side.
This is only a standard rare pool A recipe, so you'd imagine there was plenty of supply but is going for silly money (200M last purchase, previous 2 150M), and basically no supply at levels 28-34.
As it was only 125 merits, I just merit purchased one.
Is it just that the set stops at 35, but is used by lots of 50s so not so many people are playing at the right level to drop it ?
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that and, I believe, it's the only piece of the 6 that is in pool C. the other 5 pieces are pool A or B, so those will drop more often. you can also take a stab at getting them with bronze or silver rolls at AE. this piece requires you to make gold rolls at the AE, buy it with merits or take random merit rolls. |
Originally Posted by Black_Mute
I'll add to what others are saying in that it's rare because you need all six for the 2.5% +def to all.
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and if someone is going to the expense of gold rolls or merit rolls, they are probably going to keep it. even if they don't need it on that character, they most likely know it's rare and will save it for an Alt or a friend.
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That, and probably a lot of people aren't "rolling" Bronze/Silver tix at the right levels to produce it.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Kinetic combat dam/ends appear silly blue side.
This is only a standard rare pool A recipe, so you'd imagine there was plenty of supply but is going for silly money (200M last purchase, previous 2 150M), and basically no supply at levels 28-34. As it was only 125 merits, I just merit purchased one. Is it just that the set stops at 35, but is used by lots of 50s so not so many people are playing at the right level to drop it ? |
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The "people are stupid" explanation seems the most likely. There are plenty of very useful pool Cs that sell for less than that one, especially considering that Gaussian's is effectively a unique set.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Possibly the Gaussian +Rech/End IO looks worthless, it gets deleted more than say a LotG +Rech or a anti-KB IO?
Imagining I'm a casual player (ie someone who doesn't read this forum and Red Tomax or Paragon Wiki several times a day) if I got a Gaussian's +Rech/End I'd probably think "Oh, its one of those set-fillers like a Resistance set's Rech/End, ie it doesnt contribute to the primary attribute of the power type. I'll delete or vendor it". Kind of like when you do a random roll and get a snipe or something. If I get a LotG +Recharge or -KB IO its immediately obvious that its something a bit out of the ordinary and I'd at least check the price. Although, the idea of people rolling a recipe with merits and then not even checking seems a bit odd... |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Kinetic combat dam/ends appear silly blue side.
This is only a standard rare pool A recipe, so you'd imagine there was plenty of supply but is going for silly money (200M last purchase, previous 2 150M), and basically no supply at levels 28-34. As it was only 125 merits, I just merit purchased one. Is it just that the set stops at 35, but is used by lots of 50s so not so many people are playing at the right level to drop it ? |
Fewer people doing AE and generating the things would be my guess.
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I agree that that the Gaussian probably got weighted relatively low. I agree that it doesn't LOOK like a good IO.
But something that I didn't see mentioned: People don't slot BU/Aim for their "main" functions. They slot for Recharge (which Gaussian is short on.) If I was going to slot three Gaussian's End/Rech would be one of them. If I was going to slot TWO Gaussian's it might still be one of them.
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If you're going for 2 or 3 slots, you'd prob go with adjusted targeting which has a pure recharge.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I agree that that the Gaussian probably got weighted relatively low. I agree that it doesn't LOOK like a good IO.
But something that I didn't see mentioned: People don't slot BU/Aim for their "main" functions. They slot for Recharge (which Gaussian is short on.) If I was going to slot three Gaussian's End/Rech would be one of them. If I was going to slot TWO Gaussian's it might still be one of them. |
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Check out the Rare Recipe Weight Project. According to the table built up so far HERE, The Gaussian: Rech/End has a fairly low weight. Probably 2 out of 5. And as others have said, many Rech/End IOs are vendor fodder.
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Can we back the truck up on this Gaussian: +Rech/End thing? Because everything I'm seeing (ParagonWiki, Mids', the actual game) says that this is just Rech/End. I don't consider myself a casual player, but I don't see the IO you're all describing.
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Could you explain what you mean by a trading card system?|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
A "trading card" approach to getting IOs would have been better than a market. A market is doomed to mudflation and supply shortages. A "trading card" system would've had none of those difficulties. But the market's here, it isn't going anywhere, so what can you do but make the best of it?
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We've got merits to buy any recipe directly, and random rolls with merits and tickets. The costs and drop chances are all figured by the devs to enforce a particular level of scarcity. As long as the devs' goal is enforce that level of scarcity, I'm not sure how a different mechanism would change the availability of things that the devs want to be rare.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Possibly the Gaussian +Rech/End IO looks worthless, it gets deleted more than say a LotG +Rech or a anti-KB IO?
Imagining I'm a casual player (ie someone who doesn't read this forum and Red Tomax or Paragon Wiki several times a day) if I got a Gaussian's +Rech/End I'd probably think "Oh, its one of those set-fillers like a Resistance set's Rech/End, ie it doesnt contribute to the primary attribute of the power type. I'll delete or vendor it". Kind of like when you do a random roll and get a snipe or something. |
I find that people deleting Snipe and "To hit" set IOs a bit silly. Just because you couldn't use them doesn't mean that it isn't highly likely that you know someone that can.
Snipes might just be for Blasters, Corruptors, and Defenders, but I can guess that anyone that is playing this game has probably come in contact with one of these archetypes - possibly even every time they play .... unless they only solo.
A "to hit' can be used by almost any archetype (dependent on their power picks). I'm assuming that because nearly all players can slot them - will make it harder to find in the market (since people making them are probably keeping them for their own use or trading/giving them to someone they know or sg with).
I have a feeling that Sleeps IO-sets are getting deleted quite a bit by team players. I think we all know by now how using Mass Hypnosis is like yelling "Use all your AoE attacks and wake them up now!!"
Villains have a market that is scarce in general. What villains find they will often keep for their own use. Some may not feel like it is worth their villainous time to craft something that could be possible for someone else - they will, however, snatch up whatever they can find on the market as quickly as possible.
(Yet another group of reasons why I don't want to see the markets merged. My heroes have no want to craft items that may end up in the hands of villains. My villains, on the other hand, are more than willing to take advantage of other villains that will "snatch up whatever they can find on the markets as quickly as possible" for whatever I care to price the items!)
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I don't think you really understand the reason for scarcity at the Black Market. You're ascribing motives that don't exist for a majority of the playerbase.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Villains have a market that is scarce in general. What villains find they will often keep for their own use. Some may not feel like it is worth their villainous time to craft something that could be possible for someone else - they will, however, snatch up whatever they can find on the market as quickly as possible.
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Does this also mean you will stop using the markets on your heroes once GR comes out because you will no longer be certain by what means the goods were obtained? Please, oh please, let it be so.
| My heroes have no want to craft items that may end up in the hands of villains. |
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... it's cheaper in almost all cases to buy crafted snipe IO's at the market than it is to craft them, EVEN IF THE RECIPE AND SALVAGE IS FREE.
| I find that people deleting Snipe and "To hit" set IOs a bit silly. Just because you couldn't use them doesn't mean that it isn't highly likely that you know someone that can. |
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But there won't be any more crafted Snipe IOs if everyone deletes the recipes they get. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
... it's cheaper in almost all cases to buy crafted snipe IO's at the market than it is to craft them, EVEN IF THE RECIPE AND SALVAGE IS FREE.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Yeah, its just common-or-garden +20-odd% Recharge, +20-odd% End Reduction on the power its slotted in. It is nothing special other than its required to get the 6-slot bonus for Gaussian's, which is the triple-position defence bonus.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Can we back the truck up on this Gaussian: +Rech/End thing? Because everything I'm seeing (ParagonWiki, Mids', the actual game) says that this is just Rech/End. I don't consider myself a casual player, but I don't see the IO you're all describing.
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After trying to get a Gaussians rech/end for 120 mill and failing redside i had a look blueside and it was pretty rare there too.
Is it because of the pool and weighting?
What other rarities are there that are rare to come by both sides? I know shield breakers but can´t think of any other atm.