This is #1 on my proliferation "wish list" too.
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I hope we get another round of proliferation with GR, but the magic 8 ball says "outcome uncertain" and when I shake it again it says "outcome unlikely"
Traps is very high on my list for trollers even though all I've been playing much of lately is traps.
Illusion for doms is my top pick. Unaltered ideally. Well actually I just want PA to remain the same, other stuff can change if necessary. I've already built an ill/fire dom in mids. It will be great.
Traps for Controllers, illusion for Doms are also high on my proliferation wish list. Illusion/Traps and Grav/Traps....mmmmm.
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Zomg...the pure, unadulterated win of Grav/Traps staggers the mind. That combo has the potential to make even TIME BOMB useful/fun.
Trip Mine (+3) > Time Bomb > poison trap > Caltrops > Wormhole > AoE immbolize = aneurysm.
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I was thinking this combo too, though the aoe immobilize won't do much good since you'll be timing the time bomb if you use it to wormhole the enemies when it goes off, since the aoe immobilize doesn't have -kb. But been looking for a decent grav toon I wouldn't mind actually playing. Grav is just still far too lacking of control for my taste atm and doesn't really make up for it in any other way. They need to swap dimension shift into my "gravity sink" power asap :/. (think bonfire only in reverse direction, and repel + knockdown instead of knockback, rech/duration of earthquake and ice slick)
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Originally Posted by Organicide
Zomg...the pure, unadulterated win of Grav/Traps staggers the mind. That combo has the potential to make even TIME BOMB useful/fun.
Trip Mine (+3) > Time Bomb > poison trap > Caltrops > Wormhole > AoE immbolize = aneurysm. |
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I think there has already been a Dev comment that the "Gravity Sink" won't work with the current game engine. There is no mechanism to pull foes into a spot, only knock them back from a spot. It would be cool, though.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I was thinking this combo too, though the aoe immobilize won't do much good since you'll be timing the time bomb if you use it to wormhole the enemies when it goes off, since the aoe immobilize doesn't have -kb. But been looking for a decent grav toon I wouldn't mind actually playing. Grav is just still far too lacking of control for my taste atm and doesn't really make up for it in any other way. They need to swap dimension shift into my "gravity sink" power asap :/. (think bonfire only in reverse direction, and repel + knockdown instead of knockback, rech/duration of earthquake and ice slick)
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I felt the same way about Gravity until I finally got a Grav/Storm up to the 20's. AoE Immob without knockback protection + Freezing Rain = Knockdown field with huge debuff. Hurricane gives me individual protection from other foes while I use my attack chain to take down one. And Wormholing into a corner where I have already set up Lightning Storm and have Hurricane ready to lock them down into the corner, plus Thunderclap to stack mag on the stun -- almost as good as wormholing into traps. And Grav/Storm gets much better when Singy is able to draw aggro (while I stay invisible in Steamy Mist+Super Speed). While it may not be the fastest killing controller, I can tell you that it is one of the most fun solo controllers I have played because of the opportunities for complex strategy. Lots of chaos is fun.
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Local Man,
Gravity/Storm is indeed a winner!
All,
Traps would rule for controllers. I also really want Poison. I don't really care about Pain at all. If they proliferated Traps and Poison, I would for sure make:
Gravity/Traps
Fire/Traps
Earth/Traps
Illusion/Traps
Earth/Poison
Fire/Poison
I would also have to seriously consider:
Plant/Traps
Ice/Traps
Plant/Poison
Good times! 
Of course, I dread GR and I19 for the whole Incarnates crap. It almost makes me not want to play anymore, and definitely makes me hesitant to make any new characters. By giving 10 new levels, it kinda makes all my "finished" level 50 characters sorta obsolete. It will take too long to play them through the 10 levels, but I'll feel compelled to do so if you can't survive the new zones and such without doing the new levels. The last thing I wanted was for the 10 Incarnate levels to feel like actual levels. I hoped it'd feel more like EQ 1 Alternate Advancement. So now, i've got 49 characters that will all be obsoleted.
So it kinda makes me not want to make any new characters, even cool proliferated ones.
Or maybe I'll just decide to never do post 50 content. I dunno.
Lewis
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EW, i really hope that's not what Incarnate is. I'm hoping its more like what the EQ thing sounds like, ie do enough to earn more slots maybe, like an accolade, but not a level. Maybe one extra power option, but not sure how that mechanism would work without increasing the level, but that's NOT what I want to happen.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Local Man,
Gravity/Storm is indeed a winner! All, Traps would rule for controllers. I also really want Poison. I don't really care about Pain at all. If they proliferated Traps and Poison, I would for sure make: Gravity/Traps Fire/Traps Earth/Traps Illusion/Traps Earth/Poison Fire/Poison I would also have to seriously consider: Plant/Traps Ice/Traps Plant/Poison Good times! Of course, I dread GR and I19 for the whole Incarnates crap. It almost makes me not want to play anymore, and definitely makes me hesitant to make any new characters. By giving 10 new levels, it kinda makes all my "finished" level 50 characters sorta obsolete. It will take too long to play them through the 10 levels, but I'll feel compelled to do so if you can't survive the new zones and such without doing the new levels. The last thing I wanted was for the 10 Incarnate levels to feel like actual levels. I hoped it'd feel more like EQ 1 Alternate Advancement. So now, i've got 49 characters that will all be obsoleted. So it kinda makes me not want to make any new characters, even cool proliferated ones. Or maybe I'll just decide to never do post 50 content. I dunno. Lewis |
Totally forgot about how much I want poison too, but for now there is a specific reason I want traps. But poison would be very sweet as well. I forget the reasoning but I remember I'd want an earth/poison.
Traps, I want for a meandered reason. I want a plant/traps, to play with the double regen pseudo-pets. I would like it for the grav/trap combo too. But I also plan to have a traps/DP defender when GR goes out. But I feel if I made a traps/dp first, then the plant/traps and possibly the grav/traps would seem lackluster while playing them. At least if i play them first then when I play the traps/dp i can focus more of the fun of playing through DP (regardless of its horrid stats for HOB that they need to turn down to 1 minute base recharge asap but I digress).
But as just mentioned I'd like to play the plant/traps first, since I already have a plant/ta, and a plant/rad, I'd like to have the fun with traps on that first.
Likewise, on the traps issue, time bomb with a defender/troller scale damage, without a self stealth in the set to boot, what's the point? Really wish they'd replace it with something actually useful, even gun drone would be nice to have. Or how about a new actually useful power alltogether. It doesn't have to be copy + paste but for a tier 9 it should be at least something good :/.
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Not to copy paste too much, but a quick thought would be a location based force bubble for the traps tier 9
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a bit of ingenuity goes a long way. How about a Targeted AoE that on it's outskirts only have a Repel -KD mechanic, so anything inside the ring gets pushed in, and anything outside pushes out.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I think there has already been a Dev comment that the "Gravity Sink" won't work with the current game engine. There is no mechanism to pull foes into a spot, only knock them back from a spot. It would be cool, though.
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Ok sure Gale haters would probably hate it, and it would take a while for people to learn how to use it effecitvely so theydont split groups, but would be quite a fun power. could be achieved with it summoning a few pseudopets or something.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
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Unicyle Peon, the devs have already said the Incarnate levels will be an alternate progression deal, it's not a pseudo-levelcap raise. Horizontal character development, not vertical.
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I still REALLY don't understand how the devs can't figure how to work this. I have next to no programming knowledge i'll admit, but the tiny I did have seems to me like the equation they use to determine knockback/repel, when centerered around an origin/radial point, has a value that increases from that point. Hence above .67, the higher the value, the farther the knockback or repel. The devs set the numbers from 0-.67 to do knockdown only. Seems like all they would have to do is make the knockback/repel value a negative number for each pulse that the power would do to draw them to the center.|
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
a bit of ingenuity goes a long way. How about a Targeted AoE that on it's outskirts only have a Repel -KD mechanic, so anything inside the ring gets pushed in, and anything outside pushes out.
Ok sure Gale haters would probably hate it, and it would take a while for people to learn how to use it effecitvely so theydont split groups, but would be quite a fun power. could be achieved with it summoning a few pseudopets or something. |
I DO know, that its possible to do this. What I don't know, is what is so borked about the game engine that they can't, or can't seem to figure out how to get this done. Obviously it's a different engine perhaps, but just look at the Spiderman games like Spiderman 2, where you would pull the enemy towards you with your web, or even back as far as the 2-d and 3-d Mortal Kombat games with Scorpion. It's definitely possible. Not sure where the hangup lies.
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I hope it is horizontal.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Unicyle Peon, the devs have already said the Incarnate levels will be an alternate progression deal, it's not a pseudo-levelcap raise. Horizontal character development, not vertical.
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The thing is, if there are new zones that require significant investnemt to enter / complete, either due to the need for the power you get from Incarnate levels OR from a programming/coding limit required, then it is effectively vertical. That is what I'm worried about. Now if I can still team my level 50 non-Incarnate with a level 50 + level 10 incarnate and still do all the same missions and task forces, and maybe be a bit weaker, that's fine, so long as its no worse than teaming a generic/SO only character with someone who is all IOed out.
Lewis
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Is it possible to program in a "black hole" kind of power? Certainly. But if the game engine was not built with that option in mind, it would require some significant programming to either change the game engine or figure out a work-around -- and that's time they can't spend doing everything else. It is not a question of whether it is "possible," but whether it makes sense in light of limited resources.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I still REALLY don't understand how the devs can't figure how to work this. I have next to no programming knowledge i'll admit, but the tiny I did have seems to me like the equation they use to determine knockback/repel, when centerered around an origin/radial point, has a value that increases from that point. Hence above .67, the higher the value, the farther the knockback or repel. The devs set the numbers from 0-.67 to do knockdown only. Seems like all they would have to do is make the knockback/repel value a negative number for each pulse that the power would do to draw them to the center.
I DO know, that its possible to do this. What I don't know, is what is so borked about the game engine that they can't, or can't seem to figure out how to get this done. Obviously it's a different engine perhaps, but just look at the Spiderman games like Spiderman 2, where you would pull the enemy towards you with your web, or even back as far as the 2-d and 3-d Mortal Kombat games with Scorpion. It's definitely possible. Not sure where the hangup lies. |
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I'd take no new zones or content for fixing things that should be to begin with. They can whip up some costumes, proliferate some powers, and fix sets by doing something something awesome like this, I'd say it's more than worth it to eat it for the issue. Oh the dream of a toggle -repel on a tanker *drools* "internia armor" *drools*
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Is it possible to program in a "black hole" kind of power? Certainly. But if the game engine was not built with that option in mind, it would require some significant programming to either change the game engine or figure out a work-around -- and that's time they can't spend doing everything else. It is not a question of whether it is "possible," but whether it makes sense in light of limited resources.
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That's not a meaningful tradeoff, since different people with different skills are involved with tweaking powers and with creating zones and writing content.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I'd take no new zones or content for fixing things that should be to begin with.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
If I have to grind out half a billion mobs to progress through the incarnate system and it monitors it via some little horizontal meter and unlocks new powers it is going to feel a lot like leveling to me.
Arguably they could code all enemies to work like they do in a raid for the whole game and leveling from 1-50 would still be leveling in the traditional sense. Just cause a 50 won't con any different doesn't necessarily negate the notion of it being pseudo leveling. Just depends how they implement the system. If it is really grindy I'm not going to be at all excited and like many people I'll just find a way to rush them like the 45-50 section.
I haven't bought GR yet and won't till we have a lot more information about the end game system and the specifics of side switching and Posi's MMM plan (Magical Market Manipulation). I can really go either way on this game, GR is make or break for me personally. Fair or otherwise, I have some high expectations placed on it due in part because of the (imo) drought we have been in for a long time now.
Oh ya, more on topic!
Here's how I'd create a "gravity well" given the limitations of this game (still not sure if this would work though):
Placeable recticle that would summon a large ring of individual pseudo pets spawned close enough together so it is essentially seamless. The ring would have a ~30ft radius so you can fairly easily fit it around a full spawn. Anything that hits the ring is knocked back in the direction it approached from. So things inside get knocked toward the center. Things outside get knocked away. So the "0's" would be the little pseudo pets and the "I's" would be baddies. Whether system can generate such precisely placed pseudo pets in a single casting? I dunno.
As for traps. I can't think of a bad traps troller. It offers additional control to augment fire. Offers alphas to help ice. Would work wonderfully with gravity. Lol @ a group of confused mobs bunching up while you plant (pun intended) a mine at their feet. And so forth. The only primary I don't personally see fitting with it that well is mind, but it's not like it would be weak at all, just not that complimentary (imo)
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Well the knocking out would defeat the purpose and wouldn't make sense. They could do a bunch of "outside ring" repellers. And just give them a wide cone repel on very fast and short pulses, all aiming towards the center. That way with the wide, thinking 165 degrees, arc of them outside ringers, even if its not directly to the center, with the next outside ringer very close to the next one, they'll all collectively work towards pushing them to the center. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Oh ya, more on topic!
Here's how I'd create a "gravity well" given the limitations of this game (still not sure if this would work though): Placeable recticle that would summon a large ring of individual pseudo pets spawned close enough together so it is essentially seamless. The ring would have a ~30ft radius so you can fairly easily fit it around a full spawn. Anything that hits the ring is knocked back in the direction it approached from. So things inside get knocked toward the center. Things outside get knocked away. So the "0's" would be the little pseudo pets and the "I's" would be baddies. Whether system can generate such precisely placed pseudo pets in a single casting? I dunno. As for traps. I can't think of a bad traps troller. It offers additional control to augment fire. Offers alphas to help ice. Would work wonderfully with gravity. Lol @ a group of confused mobs bunching up while you plant (pun intended) a mine at their feet. And so forth. The only primary I don't personally see fitting with it that well is mind, but it's not like it would be weak at all, just not that complimentary (imo) |
For now it could work, not sure, but can only imagine THAT many pseudopets doing a function like that being hard on the system and possibly causing crashes, however, with Carrion Creepers that's pretty much how that works so I could see this working. For now, I'd still, even if on a back end job, like to see them officially implement a negative knockback/repel engine so we could eventually get a proper working Gravity Sink (Gravity Well was my name i thought of it before warshades came out and got that name!, But Gravity Sink works fine)
The negative knockback/repel engine/function would have many more uses than just in this power. Think devices, or even traps to get rid of time bomb, a cone power that would latch on to enemies, and especially for what chatter i've been hearing of wanting, a whip/lasso power set, like wonder woman/indiana jones, where you would whip/lasso the enemy and pull them towards you. Or a move where you'd grab their feet and drag them to you a bit, causing damage and -knockback. Etc, there are MANY ways to implement this creating a much more wide variety of need.
They should totally work on implementing this into the game.
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Not really. You'd have a large "trap" where everything inside stays inside and performs the "gravity well" function as well as can likely be constructed in this game.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Well the knocking out would defeat the purpose and wouldn't make sense.
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The idea is that it is large enough to place around an entire spawn. Stragglers are SOL for being jammed into the clump from the power alone, but that is consistent with single resolution powers like flashfire. Those outside the casting are still being actively mitigated in some form though which is still of minor benfit vs single resolution powers. Unfortunately the chances of it operating in a two distinct functions (ie lets things in, but not out) is unlikely.
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| They could do a bunch of "outside ring" repellers. And just give them a wide cone repel on very fast and short pulses, all aiming towards the center. That way with the wide, thinking 165 degrees, arc of them outside ringers, even if its not directly to the center, with the next outside ringer very close to the next one, they'll all collectively work towards pushing them to the center. |
The idea of repelling pseudo pets is fine, but it could never be aimed. It would go in all directions at which point you are doing the same thing I suggested just trading kb for repel. KB offers more mitigation so that would be more to my liking, but repel is probably more visually satisfying of the criteria. Of course it could do both like singy, which is even better.
For clarification what I'm talking about is essentially a ring of singularities that don't attack just kb/repel away from the entity. Anything inside the ring has been trapped in the gravity sink. Anything outside of it is repelled from it. More powerful foes would have the ability to escape the sink and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using the unique aoe foe teleport also found in gravity to put stragglers into it. In fact it is encouraged.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Not really. You'd have a large "trap" where everything inside stays inside and performs the "gravity well" function as well as can likely be constructed in this game.
The idea is that it is large enough to place around an entire spawn. Stragglers are SOL for being jammed into the clump from the power alone, but that is consistent with single resolution powers like flashfire. Those outside the casting are still being actively mitigated in some form though which is still of minor benfit vs single resolution powers. Unfortunately the chances of it operating in a two distinct functions (ie lets things in, but not out) is unlikely. I'm doubtful the system can strategically place a series of "minature bonefires minus the damage" like I'm talking about. There is likely no way it could do what you are talking about. You have to find a balance between thematics and what is possible in game. The geometry and precision required for what you are talking about is extreme. The system I'm thinking of only requires the engine to place single function pseudo pets in a circular pattern, which as mentioned I don't think is even possible unfortunately. The idea of repelling pseudo pets is fine, but it could never be aimed. It would go in all directions at which point you are doing the same thing I suggested just trading kb for repel. KB offers more mitigation so that would be more to my liking, but repel is probably more visually satisfying of the criteria. Of course it could do both like singy, which is even better. For clarification what I'm talking about is essentially a ring of singularities that don't attack just kb/repel away from the entity. Anything inside the ring has been trapped in the gravity sink. Anything outside of it is repelled from it. More powerful foes would have the ability to escape the sink and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using the unique aoe foe teleport also found in gravity to put stragglers into it. In fact it is encouraged. |
The goal, I think, would be to make a spot which has a chance to pull foes into the center. I think that the knockback around the outside would defeat the purpose, and the inside would not be functionally different than either an Immobilize or a knockdown zone, depending on how it worked. It would also require placing a huge pseudopet -- bigger than anything else in the game. It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work all that well to be a "black hole" attraction kind of power.
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Its a Gravity Sink, like a black hole. It sucks enemies into it, that's all. Knocking them further away from it would make NO sense.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Not really. You'd have a large "trap" where everything inside stays inside and performs the "gravity well" function as well as can likely be constructed in this game.
The idea is that it is large enough to place around an entire spawn. Stragglers are SOL for being jammed into the clump from the power alone, but that is consistent with single resolution powers like flashfire. Those outside the casting are still being actively mitigated in some form though which is still of minor benfit vs single resolution powers. Unfortunately the chances of it operating in a two distinct functions (ie lets things in, but not out) is unlikely. |
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I'm doubtful the system can strategically place a series of "minature bonefires minus the damage" like I'm talking about. There is likely no way it could do what you are talking about. You have to find a balance between thematics and what is possible in game. The geometry and precision required for what you are talking about is extreme. The system I'm thinking of only requires the engine to place single function pseudo pets in a circular pattern, which as mentioned I don't think is even possible unfortunately. The idea of repelling pseudo pets is fine, but it could never be aimed. It would go in all directions at which point you are doing the same thing I suggested just trading kb for repel. KB offers more mitigation so that would be more to my liking, but repel is probably more visually satisfying of the criteria. Of course it could do both like singy, which is even better. For clarification what I'm talking about is essentially a ring of singularities that don't attack just kb/repel away from the entity. Anything inside the ring has been trapped in the gravity sink. Anything outside of it is repelled from it. More powerful foes would have the ability to escape the sink and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using the unique aoe foe teleport also found in gravity to put stragglers into it. In fact it is encouraged. |
How it would work is from where you are, and cast the power, there would start a "mini portal" as you were using from directly between you, and the origin, and on the exact opposite side of the origin, then two more directly at 90, and 270 degrees from the mini portal closest to you. From there, it would just strategically place the rest of the mini portals at each next 10 degrees or so.
Now we have the mini portals placed properly around the entire outside edge of the Gravity Sink.
Next, much like oil slick, which creates a targettable pet in the center, a pet would be created for the "origin" of the circular radius. It would be targettable for the mini portals, but not killable. From here, they would bascially be using the cone power telekinesis, only with a much wider angle, and with knockdown for eache pulse, targetting the origin for their positioning of the cone.
Its entirely possible, even if it didnt start the 0 degrees - 180 degrees located around you, which doesn't really matter of its off rotation a couple degrees, it can do what many game mechanics do and keep the 0-180 degree points along the North/south/east/west bounds of the game. However, the mechanic to have it located from your position already exists in the game IIRC with the Oroboros temp power, if you notice the two diamonds always change the way they face based on your character, otherwise they would lie flatly in the same direction when someone else places one on top.
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It wouldn't have to be huge, just the same size as quicksand/ice slick/earthquake/carrion creepers. The original intent of the power IS to knockdown for mitigation, but it would be doing so as knockBACK, bringing them towards the center. As we went over, the game engine currently does not allow it to do an actual "pulling" in to the center, so we would have to do the multi-mini pets on the outside ring to accomplish this currently.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
The goal, I think, would be to make a spot which has a chance to pull foes into the center. I think that the knockback around the outside would defeat the purpose, and the inside would not be functionally different than either an Immobilize or a knockdown zone, depending on how it worked. It would also require placing a huge pseudopet -- bigger than anything else in the game. It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work all that well to be a "black hole" attraction kind of power.
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It would work, it would just not be a seamless as having just the one origin doing negative kb/repel.
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I would love traps on trollers, ill on doms, and poison on defenders (fire blast too please)
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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Pretty self explanatory, would be nice to see traps go to controllers for GR's release!
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