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And why, outside of possible drain on the game (lag/crashing) would it not be possible. Entirely it would, the only inhibitor would be in the game could physically handle it.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'm not disagreeing with the way you guys want gravity well/sink to work. Ideally it would do exactly what you say. However, what you want is so far beyond what is possible in this game it is better suggested for coh2. I'm giving you a way to make the power do what you want it to do (assuming the main function is to collapse mobs) in 90-95% of scenarios that is currently unavailable, but not a huge step beyond what the system currently is capable of.
Or at least not a huge logical step, implementation of powers that cast in that manner may well be impossible in this game. |
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For one, if you used this power in a corridor or some other place smaller than the full circle, the game would probably have no idea where to summon the pets the fall "off the map".
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
And why, outside of possible drain on the game (lag/crashing) would it not be possible. Entirely it would, the only inhibitor would be in the game could physically handle it.
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Originally Posted by MonkeySpirit
For one, if you used this power in a corridor or some other place smaller than the full circle, the game would probably have no idea where to summon the pets the fall "off the map".
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Actually that's not really for one, thats actually about the only logical answer that I could see being an issue outside of CPU usage. Depends how they can relate them, but short answer is, it wouldn't matter anyways, if there is a wall there where it would be off the map, the ones thats spawn right next to the wall would still push the enemies towards the center, they just might be at a slight angle where they'd actually very slightly bounce off the wall. So short answer is the ones that spawn, or in the case woudln't spawn off the map, would not matter. That or they would just still create the mini-portals based off the origin, regardless of being on or off the map, depends on the actual mechanics of the game engine as to which route it would have to go with.
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Six or eight small bonfire-like knockback pseudopets in a circle? Well, I know that with Bonfire, foes will often run through the edges or won't be knocked straight back -- part of that is a function of the number of pulses in the knockback. I can see foes being quickly knocked between the pets out of the field, especially if the "circle" is scrunched by being cast in a limited area.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Actually that's not really for one, thats actually about the only logical answer that I could see being an issue outside of CPU usage. Depends how they can relate them, but short answer is, it wouldn't matter anyways, if there is a wall there where it would be off the map, the ones thats spawn right next to the wall would still push the enemies towards the center, they just might be at a slight angle where they'd actually very slightly bounce off the wall. So short answer is the ones that spawn, or in the case woudln't spawn off the map, would not matter. That or they would just still create the mini-portals based off the origin, regardless of being on or off the map, depends on the actual mechanics of the game engine as to which route it would have to go with.
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I don't think it would work as well as you think.
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The limitations on converting knockback to knockto are most unfortunate. Especially given that the difference between the two is simply to swap the position of caster and target. The alternative is to calculate knockto like a knockback and then rotate the results 180 degrees. This is a fairly standard calculation in games and probably already used somewhat in mob AI to calculate paths when running away from the player, so its a shame it didnt end up encoded in the base engine.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Six or eight small bonfire-like knockback pseudopets in a circle? Well, I know that with Bonfire, foes will often run through the edges or won't be knocked straight back -- part of that is a function of the number of pulses in the knockback. I can see foes being quickly knocked between the pets out of the field, especially if the "circle" is scrunched by being cast in a limited area.
I don't think it would work as well as you think. |
You're still not understanding that the pseudopets are doing a CONE knockback, towards the origin, not a radial knockback, and much more than just 6 or 8. With faster pulses than bonfire, if they are outside of the circumference, nothing will happen to them. If they are within the circumference of the main power, then they'll be hit by one or more of the cone pseudo-pet knockbacks that is aimed towards the origin.
The more pseudo-pets with a narrower cone, the more seamless the power would work. Unfortunately as mentioned this is the best we could get with the power until they relook the engine to accomodate the power working as an inverse knockback/repel.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
You're still not understanding that the pseudopets are doing a CONE knockback, towards the origin, not a radial knockback, and much more than just 6 or 8. With faster pulses than bonfire, if they are outside of the circumference, nothing will happen to them. If they are within the circumference of the main power, then they'll be hit by one or more of the cone pseudo-pet knockbacks that is aimed towards the origin.
The more pseudo-pets with a narrower cone, the more seamless the power would work. Unfortunately as mentioned this is the best we could get with the power until they relook the engine to accomodate the power working as an inverse knockback/repel. |
There are two problems however:
1) There do not appear to be summoning mechanics that summon groups of creatures in specific locations, facing a specific direction
2) Even if that did exist, there is a huge problem when you try to fit this power into an area smaller than its radius. For, example, next to a wall. Half the pets are off the map or stuck in geometry. That's the kind of thing that can cause crashes. If you decide to make it so creatures are placed at the nearest point where they aren't off the map (itself a rather complicated calculation) you now have to rotate the pets to face center again. Then you get into situations with hills, with balconies, etc, it gets really complicated.
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1: I already explained fully how your question #1 point would be answered|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
There are two problems however:
1) There do not appear to be summoning mechanics that summon groups of creatures in specific locations, facing a specific direction 2) Even if that did exist, there is a huge problem when you try to fit this power into an area smaller than its radius. For, example, next to a wall. Half the pets are off the map or stuck in geometry. That's the kind of thing that can cause crashes. If you decide to make it so creatures are placed at the nearest point where they aren't off the map (itself a rather complicated calculation) you now have to rotate the pets to face center again. Then you get into situations with hills, with balconies, etc, it gets really complicated. |
2: again, mentioned the draw it would have on the games engine, as far as the "placing at the nearest point" would go, they would just go the the nearest point towards the origin upon which they are being faced. Again, not ideal, but the best of what we can do with the situation and would still work for the most part.
As to the power itself, between the kb and repel, i'd suggest a full knockdown of the radius, and only the "outer portals" doing the repel towards the center for the best effect.
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DIRECTIONAL Pseudopets? I can't think of anything in the game that does that. I know that Volcanic Gasses casts three nondirectional Pseudopets, and I'm not sure how many Carrion Creepers casts, but more than 8? In a circle? (That earlier diagram had eight.) You could have a Pseudo pet that fires a cone at a target, kind of like how Spectral Terror fires a Terrify at foes in the area, but that would have to go in any direction, and I don't think you could fire a knockback attack (kind of like a small Force Bolt or Gale) fast enough for your purposes. The only thing that pulses that fast are AoE auras.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
You're still not understanding that the pseudopets are doing a CONE knockback, towards the origin, not a radial knockback, and much more than just 6 or 8. With faster pulses than bonfire, if they are outside of the circumference, nothing will happen to them. If they are within the circumference of the main power, then they'll be hit by one or more of the cone pseudo-pet knockbacks that is aimed towards the origin.
The more pseudo-pets with a narrower cone, the more seamless the power would work. Unfortunately as mentioned this is the best we could get with the power until they relook the engine to accomodate the power working as an inverse knockback/repel. |
It is an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work.
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All they'd do is set it to a faster pulse rate, that part is very easy, as mentioned it would be only repel from the outer pets, not kb anyways, which would work as a toggle like telekinesis anyways. And as to the direction, like i said, kind of like oil slick, the origin of the power would be targettable by the pseudopets, and they would do their cone repel aimed at the origin. As to the mechanics of this, look at where it already exists for the Cape mission when enemies attack the hero 1 relic, or just have the origin perform a taunt to the pseudopets.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
DIRECTIONAL Pseudopets? I can't think of anything in the game that does that. I know that Volcanic Gasses casts three nondirectional Pseudopets, and I'm not sure how many Carrion Creepers casts, but more than 8? In a circle? (That earlier diagram had eight.) You could have a Pseudo pet that fires a cone at a target, kind of like how Spectral Terror fires a Terrify at foes in the area, but that would have to go in any direction, and I don't think you could fire a knockback attack (kind of like a small Force Bolt or Gale) fast enough for your purposes. The only thing that pulses that fast are AoE auras.
It is an interesting idea, but I don't think it would work. |
If you are about to question how they could taunt the pseudopets and not the team, that part's easly, give taunt a mag like a mez, have it be so low that the pseudo-pets are succeptable, but not heroes who would have an inherent higher mag resistance. (which may be how the mob that attacks the hero 1 relic and the respec trial nuclear reactor already works anyways)
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
1: I already explained fully how your question #1 point would be answered
2: again, mentioned the draw it would have on the games engine, as far as the "placing at the nearest point" would go, they would just go the the nearest point towards the origin upon which they are being faced. Again, not ideal, but the best of what we can do with the situation and would still work for the most part. As to the power itself, between the kb and repel, i'd suggest a full knockdown of the radius, and only the "outer portals" doing the repel towards the center for the best effect. |
I may not have explained myself well enough. There do not appear to be mechanics that summon creatures in specific configurations. There isn't anything, for example, that "summons a circle of creatures." And certainly nothing that "summons a circle of creatures a maximum of x yards from a selected centerpoint, closer if there is an obstacle, and then forces each creature to face the centerpoint."
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Which brings us full circle to my post that said: "so far beyond anything capable in the system it is better suggested for CoX2"
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I may not have explained myself well enough. There do not appear to be mechanics that summon creatures in specific configurations. There isn't anything, for example, that "summons a circle of creatures." And certainly nothing that "summons a circle of creatures a maximum of x yards from a selected centerpoint, closer if there is an obstacle, and then forces each creature to face the centerpoint."
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Except we DON'T know if it can't do that, because there has not been a reason for this mechanic yet. This is the first instance where this would exist, so it could entirely work with the current game engine, only the devs know if it would be possible or not, so no point in putting the idea down based on what "might" not be possible. You never know till you try, putting this out there and having a dev see it is the only way we'd know for sure. No reason to be a nay-sayer yet.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Which brings us full circle to my post that said: "so far beyond anything capable in the system it is better suggested for CoX2"
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The actual trigonometrics of the power though would be astoundingly easy.
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Wrong forum I realize, but on the top of my list would be Poison corruptors... drool.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
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OMG I love it lol. I was just going to say yes :P
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
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I'm not disagreeing with the way you guys want gravity well/sink to work. Ideally it would do exactly what you say. However, what you want is so far beyond what is possible in this game it is better suggested for coh2. I'm giving you a way to make the power do what you want it to do (assuming the main function is to collapse mobs) in 90-95% of scenarios that is currently unavailable, but not a huge step beyond what the system currently is capable of.
Or at least not a huge logical step, implementation of powers that cast in that manner may well be impossible in this game.