All I could think when I saw this was.... Korean MMOs. lol.
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Yes they have them Mabinogi has a great one, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Ragnarok Online
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
All I could think when I saw this was.... Korean MMOs. lol.
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Oddly I feel bad but yes this is what came to mind when I read it to.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
All I could think when I saw this was.... Korean MMOs. lol.
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Why should level 1's have accolades if they have the badges?
Also, it won't make sense a lvl1 toon is running around with the MoLRSF badge. That toon didn't earn it.
Access to all power pools and a power boost - WHY? How is that balanced with all the other toons out there? I (or any 50) could just run the mission and make our toon even more overpowered. Or People would just PL a toon up to 50, run the mission and level up into a new more powerful toon.
And why not just transfer the toon to another server instead of delete it?
/unsigned. This hasn't been thought out well IMO.
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I never understood why rebirthing requires more exp on the second run.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
This may be what the Incarnate system is like I don't know, but if not...
What I would like to see is... around lvl 45+ you can go on mission which ends in your character being put out of commission in some way, not in play mechanics but in story... it would be like a pick your own ending where in does your character get "killed"? injured? powers taken away? what happens is that what you choose you get sent to lvl 1 and are allowed to rechoose your primary and secondaries... Now once you get to this point you are sent to a new contact who gives you missions. After all you are an established hero but need to rebuild your ability... You can access contacts you skipped before, but those that you already did you can't access now (other than through oroborus) You would also have full access to power pools without limits, a small boost in power of some sort, but also would need more xp than a normal lvl 1 to progress. This has the benefit of keeping chars fresh and allowing people to keep their attachments while progressing the story of their char even if it means losing their lvl 50, keeps the balance that is already there with the lvl 50 cap, and lets a person keep their work on a character with badges and such instead of making them reget each and every one every time they want to make a new char and losing one time only badges when they delete older chars. |
All that leads to is grinding.
You're out of contacts, you completed most everything, and what's your reward?
Grinding.
Sure, your new char has some advanced skills by which, if you ever get to the same level you WERE, you're more powerful and more respected.
But requiring more exp on the second run???
Are you insane.
The greatest things that American MMOs offer is content. Loads of content.
CONTENT keeps the game fresh.
This is why Korean games MUST be free to play, because they just don't keep people interested with grinding.
WoW is really breaking the mold everyday by creating content that thinks outside the box. Interesting raids, interesting environments, skill puzzles, and unique vehicles that alters the gameplay when you use them.
This game is allowing greater access to content with one player by allowing crossover characters, but it really needs to go back to breaking the mold.
I really miss patrol missions with ambushes. Why can't a newspaper mish be a patrol mission.
Why can't a zone be unlockable by completing a quest line. Say portions of it unlock as you complete the quest chain, allowing access to special stores that offer premade IOs.
That'll allow people to break into IOs without betting the market.
This is one thing I like about WoW, is the fact that you have multiple ways to progress your character instead of market grinding or raiding.
What if things you did affected the world more permanently than a rikti raid.
Imagine RV that altered access to GOOD STUFF within the normal play. People would get involved in RV to maintain their side's access to stuff.
What if the rogue and vigi can access everything their side could access, plus 50% of the other side. They could also fight either side in the conflict. Every PvP kill would affect their karma gauge.
See, multiple alternatives to affect karma gauge, and motive to get involved instead of leaving dead pvp zones.
Hell, what if the entire zone changed as you progressed in the game.
Rebirthing is just grind fest, it is not true content.
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It's the same toon. It did earn it. It's like asking why Superman could still access the Justice league computers when he died, came back, and had all new powers, or when Batman had to come back from square one why he still had the Batcave. The Character already earned all that stuff.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
Why should level 1's have accolades if they have the badges?
Also, it won't make sense a lvl1 toon is running around with the MoLRSF badge. That toon didn't earn it. |
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| Access to all power pools and a power boost - WHY? How is that balanced with all the other toons out there? |
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| I (or any 50) could just run the mission and make our toon even more overpowered. Or People would just PL a toon up to 50, run the mission and level up into a new more powerful toon. |
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| And why not just transfer the toon to another server instead of delete it? |
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| /unsigned. This hasn't been thought out well IMO. |
One word.
Reroll.
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Dress it up (or down) however you like, this is, once more, "Full respec of AT primary/secondary." Which we already know the devs are 100% against. And adding more grind? Sounds like punishment, not a reward.| what happens is that what you choose you get sent to lvl 1 and are allowed to rechoose your primary and secondaries |
As for badges? Don't want to lose them? Don't delete the character.
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Sorry snip'd for content|
Originally Posted by 5th_Player
The greatest things that American MMOs offer is content. Loads of content. CONTENT keeps the game fresh. ::SNIP:: This is why Korean games MUST be free to play, because they just don't keep people interested with grinding. Rebirthing is just grind fest, it is not true content. |
This pretty much sums up how I view it. Grinding is sort of the opposite of what CoX is about. CoX based around the idea of alts lots and lots of alts. up to 36 per server alts. Rebirth would undermined that. Why make an alt we you can Rebirth and make a better character that way? And once that is added then you basically added 50 levels to the game. More levels does not make a game better. As stated content makes a game better. And more to the point content that is accessible to the avarge player. This is why a lot of issues over the years to CoX have added stuff to low, mid, and high level areas. becuase if you just add to end game you move away from the Alt friendly ideals CoX is built around.
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yes and no...|
Originally Posted by 5th_Player
I never understood why rebirthing requires more exp on the second run.
All that leads to is grinding. You're out of contacts, you completed most everything, and what's your reward? Grinding. Sure, your new char has some advanced skills by which, if you ever get to the same level you WERE, you're more powerful and more respected. But requiring more exp on the second run??? Are you insane. The greatest things that American MMOs offer is content. Loads of content. CONTENT keeps the game fresh. |
I'm assuming that this second run contact would give you more arcs and what i meant was not that a contact was inaccessable, but rather their arc that you would have already gone through. You've completed it. The character is not going back in time (That's orobus) it is continuing to develop... so what the devs could do is add new content on to things like the Dr. Vahzilok Arc. If you did it previously you now have access to it this run because Vahzilok is back type thing. Vahzilok you wouldn't deal with at level 50 because your out of his league, but back at lvl 20, the fact that you guys are on the same level again and you have experience with him it makes sense you would be called in. Get it?
It allows for expanded content and growth of character and new arcs.
Also not to mention those arcs you missed in the first run would be open again. because you're in that level range again. So arcs get would get re-opened and other arcs would get a part 2.
So it's not "grinding."
The more xp to lvl thing i think that earlier lvl you'd go with more xp while later levels you could go with the same, but the earlier levels should be a bit longer than they were originally imo the second time because the character is recovering, but I don't see it as integral, just something to add to the feel of it. After all the lvl 1 toon is 100% while the rebirthed character would be like 70% when you start in terms of how fit they are.
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Thanks Bill. Was going to make a long reply, but all I was going to say at the end was basically what you said. This is just another iwantanotherATbecauseiamtiredofmyoriginalAT full respec.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Dress it up (or down) however you like, this is, once more, "Full respec of AT primary/secondary." Which we already know the devs are 100% against.
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No it's not. It's about developing the character and story more and doing what people should be doing in an MMO"RP"G. It adds to the dynamic. It adds content. It adds growth without going above lvl 50. It makes sense in terms of comics. There is no reason not to do something like this as it has been done in a number of comics and those are memorable moments in those characters' history.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Thanks Bill. Was going to make a long reply, but all I was going to say at the end was basically what you said. This is just another iwantanotherATbecauseiamtiredofmyoriginalAT full respec.
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And it can all be done with a reroll. Plus, what comes up "in comics" is not necessarily good, mechanically, in MMOs.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
No it's not. It's about developing the character and story more and doing what people should be doing in an MMO"RP"G. It adds to the dynamic. It adds content. It adds growth without going above lvl 50. It makes sense in terms of comics. There is no reason not to do something like this as it has been done in a number of comics and those are memorable moments in those characters' history.
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Plus, yes, it *is* about a full respec, mechanically. Even with your own description:
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| what happens is that what you choose you get sent to lvl 1 and are allowed to rechoose your primary and secondaries |
I'm someone who *has* continued character stories with a reroll, as well. From electric blaster (first 50, back in I3/I4) to peacebringer, branching to a "what if" as an elec/elec brute and more. It gives plenty of freedom for continuation, even past what your reroll would, without an XP grind or penalty. And "Run the same content at a penalty" does not "add more content" any more than driving back south on a road I drove north on "adds more road."
The dirty, evil, vile min/maxer in me would hate you if this went live. I hate games that do this because I cannot stop myself from utilizing it, and hating it, and eventually quitting the game. I would rather my character at 50 BE at 50, and not have the option to go all Obi-Wan on me as I would not enjoy having to KILL every single one of my characters for more power.
I don't like working backwards to move more forward.
What part of NOT GOING TO HAPPEN is not being understood?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...14&postcount=6
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...1&postcount=11
The. Devs. Said. NO!
Bill, A respec allows you to keep your lvl... What I am suggesting doesn't therefor not a respec.
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Pay attention to what was said. You didn't, until you do, don't respond.| And "Run the same content at a penalty" does not "add more content" |
and Alts as character growth are asinine and are bad game design overall.
Warkup, you wouldn't have to "kill" your character... kill and rebirth are just easy words. Batman didn't die, he simply got injured. Notice i said there'd be a selction as to what happens, you get injured or whatever...
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yes posting "it aint going to happen" 3 times makes what you say fact.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
What part of NOT GOING TO HAPPEN is not being understood?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...14&postcount=6 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...1&postcount=11 The. Devs. Said. NO! |
I know what the devs have said and this isn't what the devs have said are not going to happen...
What the devs have said is not going to happen is the lvl cap being raised past 50, more power pools on top of the primary/secondary,and no full respecing, meaning that you aren't going to be able to get to lvl 50 with one set of powers and then change to another set which means you don't know how to use those powers. I am not suggesting ANY of those.
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Well, you did say that it would take more xp at level 1 (and presumably each level thereafter) than it would if it were a new character.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Pay attention to what was said. You didn't, until you do, don't respond. |
My question is thus: Why add 40+ levels of new story arcs, that only people who have level 45+ characters can access.
You want more content, in addition to "character growth." Isn't this the long way to go about it. Why not just add more story arcs to the ones already in game?
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| and Alts as character growth are asinine and are bad game design overall. |
Superman did not level up from 1-45 again when he became "Superman Blue." He spent 8 issues, published weekly, learning his new powers (2 months if your math is bad, far less XP than you are proposing), and 6 months as Superman Blue and Superman Red before reverting back to his original powers and resuming his career.
Storm, after having her powers taken, had to learn to live as a normal, but when she regained her powers, they weren't different powers, but the same powers. (I'll give Marvel some credit in this department, when they make a change, they stick to it for a while, although Spider-Man's time in Hell thanks to Mephisto's trick has gone on a bit longer than it should have. I expected him to notice and rebel against the inconsistencies long before now. Eventually he will have to accept May's death at the hands of that sniper and he and Mary Jane's marriage will need to survive without May's support).
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| Warkup, you wouldn't have to "kill" your character... kill and rebirth are just easy words. Batman didn't die, he simply got injured. Notice i said there'd be a selction as to what happens, you get injured or whatever... |
There is nothing preventing you from playing your 50's and utilizing new IOs and systems (like the Incarnate system) with the system as it stands now. If we implement your idea for a full respec, those "retired" characters won't have the chance to grow into the new systems until they have gone through at least 60 levels worth of grind (thanks to your XP penalty) before getting back to their previous level. Your idea inhibits character growth more than it encourages it.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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How on earth does it add content? You want to run other contacts? Guess, get to Oro and run them again. That is more content. Use your imagination roll an alt/move the toon. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
No it's not. It's about developing the character and story more and doing what people should be doing in an MMO"RP"G. It adds to the dynamic. It adds content. It adds growth without going above lvl 50. It makes sense in terms of comics. There is no reason not to do something like this as it has been done in a number of comics and those are memorable moments in those characters' history.
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And this is a "game" not a "comic book" no matter how much "RP" you want to add. The devs have to balance to this. A comic book can be written with character changing/dying/whatever every issue if the author chooses.
You want to change your AT, keep the badges, and make even more overpowered by more access to powers and a "small boost" to boot.
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Reroll. And it's right in line with the full respec that, despite your plugging your fingers in your ears, the devs HAVE said (as fact, links have been provided for you to see for yourself) they will not do, ever. Not cannot. WILL not. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Bill, A respec allows you to keep your lvl... What I am suggesting doesn't therefor not a respec.
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| Pay attention to what was said. You didn't, until you do, don't respond. |
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| and Alts as character growth are asinine and are bad game design overall. |
What is bad design?
"Hey, you can get to 50 to do a full respec (re-describe it however you want, that's exactly what it is) at level 1 and do the same content with an XP penalty." That sure sounds like bad design. Especially with two penalty-free options (Ouroboros and alts) available.
Seriously. Did you bother even doing a minimal comparison of these as options?
Ouro - You, as a 50, have fully slotted powers. You may not have ALL of them at the level you exemp down to, but you'll have as many as you'll have at the top of the range (more, IIRC, with the way SSKing works.) You add to your badge count, if badges matter to you. And because you're already 50 and have no worries about XP - bonus INF!
New alt - No XP penalty. You not only get to see the content, but do so with new powers *and* the feeling of advancement that comes from leveling. If you *choose* to slow down and see more content, it's completely in your control (turning off XP,) and you can turn it back on when things feel too slow for you.
Your idea - XP penalty. You level slower. Hope you haven't set up a leveling pact. Sure, you get to see the content, but it takes longer to get to new powers and new slots - unless, of course, you outlevel it and go back via ouro or teaming with lower levels. Even for having "the same" character, you're not fully slotted out by any means.
Yeah. It sure seems like the worst of the three ideas. Even with "RP" thrown in as a reason - and again, I'm speaking as someone who *does* do continuing stories for characters and is very pro-RP.
Lightfoot, responding in order to what you said...
I clarified as to why I said that.
why add more content for more advanced characters? Because more advanced characters would have more content. I would assume there are other ways to access the extra content but I would presume that most people wouldn't be able to on the first run unless they did grind arcs by shutting off gaining xp, because generally completing an arc does cause you to out level that area... it also doesn't make sense chronologically to have the enemies suddenly escape, so maybe there would be a time release on it or something.
It's also about a dynamic experience. as pointed out in the last paragraph... vahzilok being put away and instantly breaking out doesn't work nor does making him more powerful in a lot of cases.
While I agree with you to a point... I have to disagree with Batman... Batman went back into training...Azreal has no part of that, but it could be used to incorporate a part of the arc continued. However...overall the point still stands there are many characters that go through changes where they do have to start from a 0 point and regrow.
One wouldn't have to do the rebirth stuff any more than have to use the new IOs. It would be an option. It's an option to take the character in a direction. Not all cahracters fall and not all character get new gear.
I don't really see what the point of this would be...
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You are not alone in that...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I don't really see what the point of this would be...
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Currently you can re-roll, without any extra dev time being spent on this.
People already do this. I've re-rolled my Scrapper as a Stalker, and love it.
I can see the desire to keep badges when you do this. But what about cross faction shifts like I've done? (actually, how will this work in GR?...)
What about accolades that grant ingame powers?
Any modification of powers on your second time around will just introduce balance issues for very little gain. I'd say you have to live with the loss of your badges and move on.
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i'm actually going to be nice about this and say no. i agree with the devs 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% on their standpoint on this. this is why we can make new toons and are encouraged to do so.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
This may be what the Incarnate system is like I don't know, but if not...
What I would like to see is... around lvl 45+ you can go on mission which ends in your character being put out of commission in some way, not in play mechanics but in story... it would be like a pick your own ending where in does your character get "killed"? injured? powers taken away? what happens is that what you choose you get sent to lvl 1 and are allowed to rechoose your primary and secondaries... Now once you get to this point you are sent to a new contact who gives you missions. After all you are an established hero but need to rebuild your ability... You can access contacts you skipped before, but those that you already did you can't access now (other than through oroborus) You would also have full access to power pools without limits, a small boost in power of some sort, but also would need more xp than a normal lvl 1 to progress. This has the benefit of keeping chars fresh and allowing people to keep their attachments while progressing the story of their char even if it means losing their lvl 50, keeps the balance that is already there with the lvl 50 cap, and lets a person keep their work on a character with badges and such instead of making them reget each and every one every time they want to make a new char and losing one time only badges when they delete older chars. |
This may be what the Incarnate system is like I don't know, but if not...
What I would like to see is...
around lvl 45+ you can go on mission which ends in your character being put out of commission in some way, not in play mechanics but in story... it would be like a pick your own ending where in does your character get "killed"? injured? powers taken away? what happens is that what you choose you get sent to lvl 1 and are allowed to rechoose your primary and secondaries...
Now once you get to this point you are sent to a new contact who gives you missions. After all you are an established hero but need to rebuild your ability... You can access contacts you skipped before, but those that you already did you can't access now (other than through oroborus)
You would also have full access to power pools without limits, a small boost in power of some sort, but also would need more xp than a normal lvl 1 to progress.
This has the benefit of keeping chars fresh and allowing people to keep their attachments while progressing the story of their char even if it means losing their lvl 50, keeps the balance that is already there with the lvl 50 cap, and lets a person keep their work on a character with badges and such instead of making them reget each and every one every time they want to make a new char and losing one time only badges when they delete older chars.