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*I've never used Essence Drain. Fully enhanced, I think it's still only a 20% heal. Not that handy, IMO. Just kill a couple minions and use Stygian to fill up.|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
Hi everyone
Im working on a build for the Tri-Form Warshade I am leveling (just hit lvl 22!) and had some questions which I was hoping those with more experience with Warshades could answer: * Is Essence Drain worth it. I got it at 18 as at that point I had no heal what-so-ever so thought it would be useful. But now I have my Dwarf and Stygian Circle will is it worth dropping because I have found dropping to human to use it not very effective. * How much endurance reduction is worth slotting in the Nova and Dwarf forms? * Is it worth slotting the Gaussian's Build Up proc in Nova, and if so what lvl is it worth it slotting it? * I am going to take the Leadership pool so I can slot two LotG: +recharge and a Rectified Recticle: +Perception. Plus Vengence is always useful. Is this a good idea? Thanks in advance! |
*Nova and Dwarf forms can take both End Redux and End Mod. If you find yourself struggling for endurance in them, first look at the form attacks - lowering endurance in those will help the most. Next, you can add both End Redux and Mod into the forms. I wouldn't go for a large amount though, considering Stygian again. +recovery from IO's helps quite a bit, if you go for an IO build later on.
*Gaussian's will have a chance to proc every 10 seconds you are in Nova form. It's a 5% chance...so it'll basically happen fairly randomly, and leave you with a nice buff lasting only 5.25 seconds. Meh, I'd slot other powers, and look into it only when you're fine everywhere else and have a slot to spare. You'll get very slot hungry on a tri-form, until slots flow in when you hit the 40's.
*Recharge is always good on a 'shade. So LotG's is nice in whatever shape they come in. That said, the 40's was a time of picking random powers that don't require slots for my WS, so I devote those slots elsewhere. I even have Hurdle and Swift but no Health or Stamina. So sure, leadership pool sounds good. I think I have it on mine, for the same purpose. Just never got around to getting the LotG's.
Thanks for the input 
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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I shamelessly keep throwing this out there every time I see a TriFormShade asking for advice.
As to your questions...
I never saw a need for essence drain.
Best thing to slot in Nova/Dwarf forms is the +end proc from Performance shifter. If you can't afford that right away, leave nova with the base slot and throw end reduc in it. Slot dwarf for resistance and the proc when you can afford it (the proc and the extra slots)
Gaussian's proc? I wouldn't. It'll hardly ever fire when it's useful.
Recharge, yes. I personally took combat jumping, stealth, invisibility, and grant invisibility as mules for LotG +recharges, for a total of five with Shadow Cloak. If you'll get use of of the powers you slot LotGs in, that's a bonus.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
1) Even fully enhanced Essence Drain isn't the best heal. But it's a nice damage dealer. I have it on my 50 Triform and use it as an attack when I'm in human form. Same treatment as the power it's modelled after, Siphon Life from Dark Melee.
2) The forms don't really need endurance slotting at all. They each come with a slight Recovery boost that covers their cost. EndRed should be slotted in the form attacks, especially Nova's AoEs and Black Dwarf Mire and Drain.
3) Procs in toggles are tricky. I recommend checking out the wiki to get more info on how they function in those kinds of powers.
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Essence drain personally is not worth it IMO Stygian Return is plenty and can be used 1/2 times in each fight.|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
Hi everyone
Im working on a build for the Tri-Form Warshade I am leveling (just hit lvl 22!) and had some questions which I was hoping those with more experience with Warshades could answer: * Is Essence Drain worth it. I got it at 18 as at that point I had no heal what-so-ever so thought it would be useful. But now I have my Dwarf and Stygian Circle will is it worth dropping because I have found dropping to human to use it not very effective. * How much endurance reduction is worth slotting in the Nova and Dwarf forms? * Is it worth slotting the Gaussian's Build Up proc in Nova, and if so what lvl is it worth it slotting it? * I am going to take the Leadership pool so I can slot two LotG: +recharge and a Rectified Recticle: +Perception. Plus Vengence is always useful. Is this a good idea? Thanks in advance! |
I have never used end reduction (Or any sort endurance boost) on my Tri-Form WS most of the time the enemies drop quick enough to use stygian return after every fight and during. I guess it might be useful for AVs and tough enemies.
Bear in mind I never solo.
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I solo a lot and on my last respec I removed Essence Drain. I was better off popping a green or switching to Dwarf and hitting Black Dwarf Drain.
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Originally Posted by NightLight_EU
Essence drain personally is not worth it IMO Stygian Return is plenty and can be used 1/2 times in each fight.
I have never used end reduction (Or any sort endurance boost) on my Tri-Form WS most of the time the enemies drop quick enough to use stygian return after every fight and during. I guess it might be useful for AVs and tough enemies. Bear in mind I never solo. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'm sure you meant Stygian Circle. Stygian Return is the self-rez.|
Originally Posted by NightLight_EU
Essence drain personally is not worth it IMO Stygian Return is plenty and can be used 1/2 times in each fight.
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Expanding on the issue of unique IOs, it's largely up to you what you do with 'em. But I don't recommend using Gaussian's (Or any other procs) in toggles. As another poster said they'll hardly fire when they'd be useful. When you slot procs in toggles they have a chance of going off once every 10 seconds. Since toggles run constantly that chance is completely random. It's much better to slot them in fast recharging click powers that you'll be using often (AKA attacks) because the procs will then have a chance of going off every time you use the power instead of on a fixed timer.
Being a triform Kheldian means excess toggles are bad because they turn themselves off when you switch forms (This is especially a problem for Warshades who shapeshift very often to take full advantage of their various buffs and controls). So the Leadership pool is something you should steer away from. If you wanna slot Rectified Reticle +Perception I recommend putting it in Nova Form. Its a global IO so the effect isn't dependent on whether the toggle is on or not.
Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
Thanks for the great advice everyone - I will go back to my build and make some changes.
Think I will drop essence drain and bring forward Gravity Well and will drop the build up proc and look at either moving that slot or slotting something else.
My reason for going leadership rather than the stealth pool was because of Vengence because it can provide a significant defence boost if somebody does happen to faceplant. And I still will be able to slot 4 LofG +recharges in total (Maneuvers, Shadow Cloak, Vengence and I am going to take Combat Jumping).
And with dropping Essence Drain I could fit in another power to take a fifth if needed.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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It's certainly good reasoning. You may not use the toggles as much, but vengeance will be used for sure. It's not like you'll miss the 7.5% recharge by not fitting one more LotG. Once eclipse is permanent, you really should start to focus on other good bonuses anyway.|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
My reason for going leadership rather than the stealth pool was because of Vengence because it can provide a significant defence boost if somebody does happen to faceplant.
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What I meant was that getting any use out of your LotG mules is probably better than what I do. I don't even have the concealment powers in my tray.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Note that taking Stealth is kind of silly. You got a stealth power already in your secondary. And they don't stack. Since a tri-form is very slot hungry, do you really want two powers that your slotting Luck of the Gamblers in?
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Slot hungry isn't the same as power-choice hungry. Khelds are slot hungry, yes, but not really power-choice hungry.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Note that taking Stealth is kind of silly. You got a stealth power already in your secondary. And they don't stack. Since a tri-form is very slot hungry, do you really want two powers that your slotting Luck of the Gamblers in?
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Stealth Pool has Stealth, Grant Invis, and Invis which all can hold LotG's - that's where it's use lies, in using a single pool to hold 3 of those uniques - all using only the first slot. That leaves slots for more important powers.
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As Square One said, you're misunderstanding the phrase "Slot starved."|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Note that taking Stealth is kind of silly. You got a stealth power already in your secondary. And they don't stack. Since a tri-form is very slot hungry, do you really want two powers that your slotting Luck of the Gamblers in?
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As a TriFormShade, I don't have many slots to spread around. That means at least five of my power picks will be "slotless." A power without slots is a power I don't plan to use often/ever. Since they come with the initial slot, they might as well be set mules.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I'm echoing Dechs Kaison and Square One a bit, I know. I just wanted to point out that taking stealth for LotG is the opposite of silly. Tri-formers are slot starved, but you will have many power picks that go unslotted. The whole stealth pool for LotGs would be a good move if you need the recharge and aren't getting it from sets.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Note that taking Stealth is kind of silly. You got a stealth power already in your secondary. And they don't stack. Since a tri-form is very slot hungry, do you really want two powers that your slotting Luck of the Gamblers in?
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The poor kheldian form of this would be those gift of the ancient procs... so you can have a really speedy dwarf! That'd be more along the lines of silly / humorous though.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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No I haven't. A keld has MORE powers just in primary and secondary then they can take by level 50. So for every pool power you get, you have to decide which from the primary/secondary you don't want. And warshades get a lot of really nice powers. Plus if your tri-form you are short on enhancement slots too. So I find I have to look at power choices also in terms of "How many slots will this require?"|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
As Square One said, you're misunderstanding the phrase "Slot starved."
As a TriFormShade, I don't have many slots to spread around. That means at least five of my power picks will be "slotless." A power without slots is a power I don't plan to use often/ever. Since they come with the initial slot, they might as well be set mules. |
As such all but 1 Dwarf power has only the default slot. Many human form powers too only have the default slot as well.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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...I had something written up, but just realized Vengeance can carry a LotG as well. So there's the stealth pool that can hold 3 but is practically useless. Leadership pool can have 2 and includes Vengeance, which can be nice at times. I'd say go with the stealth pool if you are either 1) close enough to perma Eclipse that the 7.5% is needed, or 2) always forget to fire Vengeance anyway (I fall into this category). |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
No I haven't. A keld has MORE powers just in primary and secondary then they can take by level 50. So for every pool power you get, you have to decide which from the primary/secondary you don't want. And warshades get a lot of really nice powers. Plus if your tri-form you are short on enhancement slots too. So I find I have to look at power choices also in terms of "How many slots will this require?"
As such all but 1 Dwarf power has only the default slot. Many human form powers too only have the default slot as well. |
Else, go with Leadership.Looking at your last sentence in your first paragraph - it's exactly the thing I'm thinking about, balancing possible power picks with the slots available. A tri-former simply will not be effective taking all or too many human powers - for the chosen powers (some at least) to be effective, they must be slotted. But pulling slots from the forms is going to lower effectiveness over all. (On my current build, I've actually placed more slots in my form attacks than in my "naturally" chosen powers) I see a lot of bad tri-form builds where the form attacks are given 2-4 slots while awful picks such as human Detonation and all the shields are chosen and slotted well. Meanwhile, Gravitic Emanation (a personal favorite, as anyone who reads many of my posts will know) is completely left out. Now that's a radical example and I'm not at all implying you build -anything- along those lines, but it happens.
There are 6-8 really great powers available and IMO should be taken on all WS's. The rest are either fairly normal compared to other AT's, or sub-par.
Also, the OP seems intent on going with the Leadership pool + Combat Jumping. That's three places for LotG, and includes the usefulness of Vengeance. Nothing I'll argue with over that.
My build underslots Dwarf Form, but then I only really use it for tanking and soloing freakshow tanks. I slotted up human form attacks though, because on some teams I spend more time in human form acting as a blasting controller. My current respec build messed up though. I took the first blast too, forgetting I had originally respeced out of it for a reason. I find that while I'd rather use nova form blasts, sometimes the human form blasts can be effective too. Especially when inky aspect is keeping the team alive.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
I found when building my Tri-Form I wasn't just looking at 'how many slots will this use' but also 'how much use will i get out of this'
From how Ive played so far I am mostly staying in Nova form, switching to dwarf to help manage a bit of agro or there is an enemy that tends to hit harder than normal.
So I think taking a lot of the general attacks/shields won't get a lot of use so are skippable. This would be different if I was going either human or dual-form.
The powers I am taking are the buffs/heals (sunless mire, stygian circle, stygian return, eclipse), control powers (gravimetric snare, gravity well, gravitic emination), utility powers (dark extraction, shadow cloak, nebulous form, starless step) and some of the harder hitting attacks (unchain essence, quasar).
This leaves a lot of power choices where I will either choose a WS power which I won't use or choose a pool power where I can slot a proc to enhance my performance in Nova/Dwarf form. In my case this is hasten, super speed (for ghosting with shadow cloak and travel - nova fly is slow and im just no good with teleport), the leadership powers and combat jumping.
I think from your play style Enigma you may be right to take more human attacks as, like you say, you stay in human form more where I don't at the moment.
I guess thats the joy of the EATs that there are so many different ways to play them. My Peacebringer for example is a Dual-Form Human/Dwarf so I have picked up the human melee attacks to help augment his Dwarf ones.
Edit - I just also wanted to say I am getting 4 LotG in my build, two in leadership, one in combat jumping and one in shadow cloak.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Yeah, that is the beauty of them. Their versatile enough to fit a wide range of playstyles. My usual playstyle is miring nova blast platform. In teams, I adjust play style for what the team need. Personally, I'm gonna respec out of quasar. The end crash does *not* fit my play style in the least. Unchain essence though, I love it. And I didn't really find essence extraction as 'must have' as others when I had it.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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This is our disconnect right here. I have most of the dwarf powers five slotted, mire is six. Nova looks very similar. It's likely that I spend much less time in human form than you do.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
No I haven't. A keld has MORE powers just in primary and secondary then they can take by level 50. So for every pool power you get, you have to decide which from the primary/secondary you don't want. And warshades get a lot of really nice powers. Plus if your tri-form you are short on enhancement slots too. So I find I have to look at power choices also in terms of "How many slots will this require?"
As such all but 1 Dwarf power has only the default slot. Many human form powers too only have the default slot as well. |
I occasionally Gravity Well a pesky enemy or Gravatic Emanation a group, rarely I end up using an Unchain Essence, but usually, the only time I spend in human is to eclipse, mire, summon a fluffy and stygian circle.
As such, there's a lot of human form powers I won't get to use, so they might as well be set mules.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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And that's your choice. Kelds can fit a wide range of play styles.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
This is our disconnect right here. I have most of the dwarf powers five slotted, mire is six. Nova looks very similar. It's likely that I spend much less time in human form than you do.
I occasionally Gravity Well a pesky enemy or Gravatic Emanation a group, rarely I end up using an Unchain Essence, but usually, the only time I spend in human is to eclipse, mire, summon a fluffy and stygian circle. As such, there's a lot of human form powers I won't get to use, so they might as well be set mules. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Agreed! I'm sorry if I came across sounding like my build is better. Hardly the case at all!|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
And that's your choice. Kelds can fit a wide range of play styles.
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It was not my intent, I was just bringing to the front where our difference in opinion probably started.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
You didn't. I was just pointing out for the newbies to kelds reading this that it was just one option of many. As is how I slotted. For example, most love the little fluff balls of doom and try getting as many as possible. I found them meh. Some love quasar, but I found it to suck. Sure the damage is nice if double mired. But I decided I'm gonna drop it in a respec. It didn't do enough damage to me to be worth the crash. And if it did kill everything, I'd have killed everything just as easily with nova form and without the crash.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Agreed! I'm sorry if I came across sounding like my build is better. Hardly the case at all!
It was not my intent, I was just bringing to the front where our difference in opinion probably started. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I've got a different build again, pretty much evenly spread across all three forms and heavily Frankenslotted. I've a few viable Human Form powers, including three toggles (Smashing/Lethal shield, Shadow Cloak and Inky Aspect) and both Shadow Blast and Essence Drain 3 slotted and well slotted Nova (5 slotted AOEs, 3 slotted blasts) and Dwarf (Mire, Taunt and Heal strongly slotted, weaker single-targets).|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Agreed! I'm sorry if I came across sounding like my build is better. Hardly the case at all!
It was not my intent, I was just bringing to the front where our difference in opinion probably started. |
So I play according to whim and whimsy mostly. If Unchained is up I'll use the human blasts to make a corpse to explode. If I've two Fluffies then I'll tank for them, if Quasar comes up when I'm tanking I'll do the double-mire Quasar thing (it's hilarious when the Team Tank decides "bored now" and nukes the rest of the spawn). If Eclipse and Mire hit well I'll play the Floating Purple Platform of Doom for a bit.
Only pool I bothered with is Speed, don't have the dedication or resources to work towards a Mule build, but I could certainly see the attraction if you can afford it.
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I'm glad.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
You didn't. I was just pointing out for the newbies to kelds reading this that it was just one option of many. As is how I slotted. For example, most love the little fluff balls of doom and try getting as many as possible. I found them meh. Some love quasar, but I found it to suck. Sure the damage is nice if double mired. But I decided I'm gonna drop it in a respec. It didn't do enough damage to me to be worth the crash. And if it did kill everything, I'd have killed everything just as easily with nova form and without the crash.
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The fluffballs used to be a lot better when recharge enhancements/bonuses would affect pets. Now they're significantly weaker.
A word on Quasar: I have it. I don't think I've ever used it save as a flashy RP tool or as an "Oh crap!" kind of button.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Only pool I bothered with is Speed, don't have the dedication or resources to work towards a Mule build, but I could certainly see the attraction if you can afford it.
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>.>
<.<
What? I really liked playing my 'shade!
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Hi everyone
Im working on a build for the Tri-Form Warshade I am leveling (just hit lvl 22!) and had some questions which I was hoping those with more experience with Warshades could answer:
* Is Essence Drain worth it. I got it at 18 as at that point I had no heal what-so-ever so thought it would be useful. But now I have my Dwarf and Stygian Circle will is it worth dropping because I have found dropping to human to use it not very effective.
* How much endurance reduction is worth slotting in the Nova and Dwarf forms?
* Is it worth slotting the Gaussian's Build Up proc in Nova, and if so what lvl is it worth it slotting it?
* I am going to take the Leadership pool so I can slot two LotG: +recharge and a Rectified Recticle: +Perception. Plus Vengence is always useful. Is this a good idea?
Thanks in advance!