Pleading for some old content changes!
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2010-04-10 17:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
For some missions, yeah, they help a new player get to see the city and learn some of the ropes like where mobs spawn at or what level the area is; but others do more harm than good like the first Hunt 10 CoT in Perez Park which is usually given to someone who's just leveled enough to enter it and the nearest CoT are well above your level. There were times on Defenders of mine the fight was one-for-one, I'd kill one Thorn minion and the rest would kill me at near the same moment.|
Originally Posted by Tyrrano
While I'm just as tired of these missions as anyone, let me interject something. Think way back to when you were brand new to CoH. These missions did a decent job of sending you everywhere and getting a feel for the place, letting you deal with baddies in the streets that are in your way, learning which ones are where and how tough they are. We've all been into this long enough that we don't need it, but I think truly new players *do* need it.
But those hunt 50 carnies in PI missions, yeah, those can go.  |
That mission wouldn't be so bad if it weren't given so early, much like the "Hunt Clockwork in Boomtown" you get from the Security Chief; you'd more than likely get that mission at around lvl10-12, and have to jog all the way from the originating contact, all the way up Steel Canyon, and then all the way from the Boomtown gate to where the Clockwork spawn in at, usually in large groups +1 to your level (if not more). Should you die fighting the large mob of Clockwork, then you either hope to have a Rez on you or you're walking all the way from Steel's Hospital back to the mob which usually reset and is full strength again.
Granted Safeguard temp powers and Ninja Run help that problem, but it'd still be far better to move the mission to a higher level range (barring a re-make of the zone given to others like Hollows and Faultline).
You know, something just occured to me (that plenty of others probably realized). Most of the old content was made with a different frame of MMO Gaming in mind. Back in the early days of CoH, Jack was making the game in a way that forced us to do things, usually difficult things, no matter what. Need to click on simultanious glowies? Forced to team. Have to hunt 50 Carnies in Peregrine? Forced to hunt (sometimes) rare mobs that spawn low numbers. Able to solo an even con Boss? Better not, or Jack will change the coding so you're forced to team with at least 5 others to take it down. Even the contacts themselves won't give you their Cell until late in their mission list. That's basically the thinking of other older and mainstream Fantasy MMOs.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
I know the Devs aren't likely to ever go back and tweak existing Vet Rewards, but I think a partial solution would be to give players a power around 18-14 months that grants you a contact's cell phone number immediately.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Interesting topic, especially from my perspective.
Let me explain quickly.
I now have a part time job at WeGame.com and I have been chosen to add all content to City of Heroes for the database. I am maybe halfway done with adding the missions from the game and let me tell you: this is NO small task.
Going over them as I go, I have to agree. I don't see them doing this though, at least not all at once. We are talking about a fairly large chunk of content here. Considering the 'bang for your buck' argument and that a fairly large majority of their business is towards already-active subscribers, I think they are aware most skip the content that you are talking about.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Synapse is much less of a pain with the modified TF exemplar code, where you keep some powers higher than the exemplar limit, particularly when you pushed off getting Stamina until 22 -- with the continual End drain from the Clockwork, Synapse was one continual painfest.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Quote:
|
I think, though, that a comparison of them for the second-worst depends on which you dislike more -- ongoing Endurance suck or "maze of twisty little passages, all alike".
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
Quote:
That's kind of how it was back in the day. It's part of why I keep saying that the game turned out great DESPITE Jack's best efforts, not BECAUSE of them. As the game was originally implemented, it was badly unballanced, with a lot of player characters being able to do FAR more than anyone expected them to, hence why we were able to solo large spawns, solo bosses, solo Hazard Zone hunts and so forth. Even after the GDN and ED, even after the many adjustments, this is still the case, for one simple reason - somewhere along the line, someone realised that THAT'S WHAT WE WANT!|
Originally Posted by KianaZero
You know, something just occured to me (that plenty of others probably realized). Most of the old content was made with a different frame of MMO Gaming in mind. Back in the early days of CoH, Jack was making the game in a way that forced us to do things, usually difficult things, no matter what. Need to click on simultanious glowies? Forced to team. Have to hunt 50 Carnies in Peregrine? Forced to hunt (sometimes) rare mobs that spawn low numbers. Able to solo an even con Boss? Better not, or Jack will change the coding so you're forced to team with at least 5 others to take it down. Even the contacts themselves won't give you their Cell until late in their mission list. That's basically the thinking of other older and mainstream Fantasy MMOs.
|
So, they left the game alone and gave us difficulty settings to make our own experience more difficult if we wanted. Some did, some didn't. They designed their newer content with solo in mind, such that most encounters worked solo, but some, usually at the end, were trickier, harder or more complicated. Regular content became simpler, TFs became much more brutal. As it should be.
And yet we still have that six-year-old content here and there that assumes that OBVIOUSLY you're going to be teamed up with five or more other people. Why wouldn't you be? So it sends you on missions above your level, against enemies of spawn sizes designed for groups or to do tasks that require multiple people. I'd say we need to do something about those, because that's what people complain about a lot of the time.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
The main thing I like about City of Heroes is that I can play it casually. There's always an element of danger, but I'm never forced to team.
When I do team, it's typically with friends, and there's typically witty in character banter involved.
However... I can honestly say that I vastly prefer Redside to Blueside. Not because I like being evil (All of my red side toons are Chaotic Neutral through Neutral Good), but because I'm just not fond of early Blueside content.
My least favorite experience I've ever had in this game was my first time on the Cavern of Transcendence Trial. I'm on a level 26 Dark Miasma/Dual Pistol Defender, Exempted down. The rest of the team was...
- A Martial Arts Scrapper
- A Spines Scrapper
- A Sonic Defender
- 4 Blasters
The team had "Blastoise". That was kind of our first problem...
But that wasn't even the main problem. Oh no. The main problem was that Simulclick.
I can deal with 2 Man Simulclicks. Or even 3 Man Simulclicks.
But an eight man simulclick!?
I SAY VARIOUS RUDE WORDS IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION, EMMETT! A Trial should not be made unwinnable because one person disconnects! That is a [Deleted] stupid design choice!
...I never want to touch that trial again. I never even want to touch the Hollows again.
My experience was just that bad.
Quote:
I know how you feel, I've done that trial I don't know how many times now, but I know I can count the sucesses on one hand. Actually, it just takes two fingers. It'd be great if they'd redo that one. I was hoping it'd get a remake when Hollows was polished and given some tweaking, but that didn't happen.
|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
I SAY VARIOUS RUDE WORDS IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION, EMMETT! A Trial should not be made unwinnable because one person disconnects! That is a [Deleted] stupid design choice!
...I never want to touch that trial again. I never even want to touch the Hollows again. My experience was just that bad. |
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
Quote:
Because players would ask why they can't use the train to go back to Outbreak whenever they want?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
How about, instead of Coyote "teleporting" us to Atlas Park or Galaxy City, he directed us to the station so we could take a train there?
|
But seriously, that's actually a great idea. For some reason, it doesn't seem like there's any obvious pointers in the game to clue new players in that "hey, there are trains in this game and that's how you get from zone to zone." Even the "yellow line" and "green line" on the map don't always spell out "train station" to many players (didn't for me). I remember running around on my first character when I noticed a train pass overhead and I followed the rails back to the source, thinking "there's got to be a better way to get around, and I bet this is it." Of course, if they directed you to take the tram right out of the tutorial, you'd know right from the start to look for tram stations to get around.
I guess, like finding the tunnels in Faultline, figuring out there's a tram system is one of the rites of passage of this game.
Actually, it'd probably make more sense to make the exit from Outbreak be a police van, like the entry to Safeguards - so after you'd helped the cops, they'd give you a lift to Atlas or Galaxy 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
That's a good point, but making the players take a train would help introduce them to mechanics of using the train stations, which is the whole point of the suggestion. Still, a police van would also work as a way of introducing zone select menus and transport use in CoX. Possibly also a note about how you can use your map to find trains, gates and automobiles...
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, it'd probably make more sense to make the exit from Outbreak be a police van, like the entry to Safeguards - so after you'd helped the cops, they'd give you a lift to Atlas or Galaxy
|
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
You know, one thing that's missing from this game is a World Map.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I actually think we might do well with a map and train training section in the tutorial. It seems a lot of newer players don't seem to know how to use the map. I still get odd questions for returning players, like "Hey, is Crey's Folly off Brickstown or Founders' Falls?" The City Map tells you exactly that, but few players seem to know it even exists. Not many new players know about the train, either. I was introduced to it by a team-mate back in the day.
|
It should be a button clickable from the Map Window, or you should be able to get to it from the Menu or by a keybind. Then it opens up as a large window that shows you how ALL the zones are connected to one another.
That, I think, would solve a lot of problems for new players, and let them know that, "Hey, this place is a LOT bigger than it looks!"
Well, there's the City Map in your Map window and then there's the Big Giant Map in the front of Every train station... But it might, indeed make sense to be able to 'explode' the Map across your whole window with a click and then return it to whatever convenient size you usually have it at. Plus, have a brief tutorial on it in Outbreak. It might be good to have a Hero 101 class/arc at Paragon Technical College with a reward value equivalent to your Origin contact's missions.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quote:
Actually, I can count the success of that Trial on one finger. One particular finger waved in the general direction of the person who thought it was good idea to make this thing.|
Originally Posted by KianaZero
I know how you feel, I've done that trial I don't know how many times now, but I know I can count the sucesses on one hand.
|
But that's neither here nor there.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
As mentioned, what you describe is already available from the in-game map. When you open your map window, it has two tabs. One is Zone and what you'll be looking at most of the time, but the other is City. City shows you the entire city with all zones you have access to (possibly excluding things like Bloody Bay or Cimerora, I don't know) that shows you which zone connects to what and where the Yellow and Green lines go through, as well as where their stops are. It's actually accurate in that regard, in that where the dots are on the City Map is roughly where the stations are in their respective zones.|
Originally Posted by TyrantMikey
You know, one thing that's missing from this game is a World Map.
|
It's there, but again - the problem is few people know about it. I found it out of curiosity, as I explored all the buttons the first time I stepped into the city, but it doesn't seem like everyone is as idly curious as I am. A tutorial explaining it might be a good idea.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
How about, instead of Coyote "teleporting" us to Atlas Park or Galaxy City, he directed us to the station so we could take a train there?
It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.