Will let others comment for any tweaks.
But if we ever got dark/dark blaster sets, it would be the first time I ever took time off from work just so I can instantly log on after the issue is released and roll one of these up. Yes, please dark now!
The structure you put in place for the suggestion, looks sound.
So, yeah, its doable.
I would like to see a dark secondary for Dominators, probably before Blasters. But that is just personal preference. I can see why it would a boon to aid blasters, so it makes sense.
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Wouldn't Soul Drain be more thematic than Build-up (or do Blasters already get it in Epics?)
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I was thinking the same thing, and Blasters do not have it in their Epics. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Wouldn't Soul Drain be more thematic than Build-up (or do Blasters already get it in Epics?)
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This Looks good, and I always wanted this.
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I could go for that. Added to OP.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Wouldn't Soul Drain be more thematic than Build-up (or do Blasters already get it in Epics?)
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Be well, people of CoH.
Tar patch is almost too good, even with a reduced radius, Touch of fear I think would fit better.
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I went with tar patch because I needed an AoE mitigation tool along the lines of ice patch, caltrops/smokegrenade, lightning clap and burn/hotfeet.
Swapping it out for ToF would leave the set too weak on the aoe mitigation front, I think.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Maybe compromise with a Fearsome Stare with a reduced cone radius?|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I went with tar patch because I needed an AoE mitigation tool along the lines of ice patch, caltrops/smokegrenade, lightning clap and burn/hotfeet.
Swapping it out for ToF would leave the set too weak on the aoe mitigation front, I think. |
Alternatively, you could keep the radius but remove the -Res componant from Tar Patch.
Global name: @k26dp
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* Tar Patch isn't much of an AOE mitigation tool though, it's a Run Speed and Resist debuff. It doesn't even have an Afraid or Avoid effect like Freezing Rain or Hotfeet.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I went with tar patch because I needed an AoE mitigation tool along the lines of ice patch, caltrops/smokegrenade, lightning clap and burn/hotfeet.
Swapping it out for ToF would leave the set too weak on the aoe mitigation front, I think. |
* *Edited to prevent confusion on the Slow effect
Doesn't Oppressive gloom fit the AoE mitigation tool mold?
I suppose with a reduced radius and lousy Blaster debuff numbers, the Blaster Tar Patch wouldn't be anything to write home about, but the -res gives me pause is all.
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Doomtastic 50 SS/Inv Brute
Ceus 50 Eng/Kin Corr
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Originally Posted by Kasoh
Doesn't Oppressive gloom fit the AoE mitigation tool mold?
I suppose with a reduced radius and lousy Blaster debuff numbers, the Blaster Tar Patch wouldn't be anything to write home about, but the -res gives me pause is all. |
With Blaster levels it'd be a 19.5% debuff, which is fairly significant. But with say a 10-15 foot radius and maybe a 20 second duration (Tar Patches duration is 45) it'd be fairly balanced I suppose
I did not think about the -resistance on tar patch. I was locked in on using it to keep foes out of melee. I could see that being problematic when paired with a higher damage primary like fire blast. Perhaps fearsome stare would be better.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I did not think about the -resistance on tar patch. I was locked in on using it to keep foes out of melee. I could see that being problematic when paired with a higher damage primary like fire blast. Perhaps fearsome stare would be better.
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I was thinking Grav Emission from Warshades Umbral Blast but there'd be too much opportunity to stack stuns then really.*
A 10 foot AOE version of Touch of Fear?
I'm totally down for this. I want.
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Considering most blasters secondaries have Build Up or a form of, I don't think Tar Patch would pose much of a problem would it?|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I did not think about the -resistance on tar patch. I was locked in on using it to keep foes out of melee. I could see that being problematic when paired with a higher damage primary like fire blast. Perhaps fearsome stare would be better.
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Build up: +100% dmg for 10's
or
Tar Patch: -30% resist for 45's
maybe lower it to -15% if not less.
no way they'd put in tar patch its *too* good. fearsome stare would be good but with a reduced to hit- value instead of reduced cone size.
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I'm greedy, and a Dark/Dark fan (Is my main also). I'll take both please. With any values attached regardless.
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
no way they'd put in tar patch its *too* good. fearsome stare would be good but with a reduced to hit- value instead of reduced cone size.
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Your secondary looks good Bill.
I only see one sticking point on the idea of a Dark/Dark blaster (yes, I do want one as well, so I'm NOT bashing the idea)
That sticking point is the fact that Dark Blast has a self heal in it. I would wager a guess that the self heal is part of why Dark Blast hasn't been ported to blasters yet. Drain Psyche is the closest blasters currently get to a healing power, and it is just a regen boost rather than a true heal. (come to think of it, a Dark Blast/Mental Manipulation blaster would be pretty sick)
I'd like to see it replaced with smething like a ranged version of Follow Up. It would have the same accuracy debuff as Dark Blast and Gloom, and maybe a minor -damage component.
It would be appropriate for a set that is largely DoT powers to have a lower stackable buff to keep the damage piling on, rather than a version of Aim that has a long recharge and gives a boost for 10 seconds. Since Dark Blast's burst damage potential isn't that great, a ranged Follow Up would help get it's DPS at least in the ballpark of the other blaster sets.
Thoughts?
Edit: Tenebrous Tentacles might be a small issue as well, but probably not as much as Life Drain.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Or, why not keep TarPatch, but put it as a PBAOE (like Ice Patch). Maybe add a few component like burn, so they're running slowly out of it.
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Don't see how either would be a prob, Dark how lower than average damage than other sets, why not have a self heal to compensate?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Your secondary looks good Bill.
Edit: Tenebrous Tentacles might be a small issue as well, but probably not as much as Life Drain. |
Tenebrous Tentacles: I gonna assume you mean because of the mob Immobolize, I don't see whythat would be a prob. That would also include Dark Pit too...I'll refer you to Sonic Attacks; Siren Song -sleep, and Screech -stun.
So why not just carbon copy Darkblast as Is, perhaps with lower -tohit. Say -2.5% to -5%. Over the Defenders -9.38% and Corruptors -7.5%.
Okay, had some time to think.
A couple of questions.
For the soul drain suggestion, how would that feel on an AT that is supposed to be at range and having to hit in melee first? Would this even make a difference at all?
And, just for flavor, would cloak of darkness work in this set? Devices has cloaking device, so a stealth-like power exist for blasters. I know there is some difference from what I have read (CoD, res to immob/+percept that is not in cloaking device, but both have a +def all).
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Well blasters have melee in their secondary, so a pbaoe ain't far off and other secondaries also have pbaoes, like Mental Manip: Drain Psyche. I like the thought of CoD instead of perhaps Fearsome stare or Tarpatch.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Okay, had some time to think.
A couple of questions. For the soul drain suggestion, how would that feel on an AT that is supposed to be at range and having to hit in melee first? Would this even make a difference at all? And, just for flavor, would cloak of darkness work in this set? Devices has cloaking device, so a stealth-like power exist for blasters. I know there is some difference from what I have read (CoD, res to immob/+percept that is not in cloaking device, but both have a +def all). |
The implementation for this suggestion is long overdue. Make it so.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'm looking at tendencies for blaster sets on the "no self heal" thing. There isn't an existing blaster set that has a true self heal, which I presume is intentional. I'm operating on the theory that if blasters were going to be given a heal power in a primary or secondary we would have gotten one by now. |
Originally Posted by Chaos_Reaver
Don't see how either would be a prob, Dark how lower than average damage than other sets, why not have a self heal to compensate?
Tenebrous Tentacles: I gonna assume you mean because of the mob Immobolize, I don't see whythat would be a prob. That would also include Dark Pit too...I'll refer you to Sonic Attacks; Siren Song -sleep, and Screech -stun. So why not just carbon copy Darkblast as Is, perhaps with lower -tohit. Say -2.5% to -5%. Over the Defenders -9.38% and Corruptors -7.5%. |
Drain Psyche doesn't really count as a self heal, since using it right before you die will almost never prevent you from dying. Life Drain will, and it's on a short enough recharge that it can be made part of a normal attack chain.
I will be VERY surprised if Dark Blast gets ported to blasters with the self heal intact.
I'm looking at Tenebrous Tentacles along with Bill's proposed secondary as to why it may be a problem.
Siren's Song is an AoE sleep power. Which means the second you hit that mob with an AoE they all wake up and start shooting you. Screech is a single target stun.
Tenebrous Tentacles is an AoE immobilize. Dark Pit is an AoE stun. As any Fire Control player can tell you: AoE immobilize + AoE stun = AoE hold. The stun prevents them from acting, the immobilize prevents them from moving, which is exactly the same thing a hold does. Add in Oppressive Gloom from Bill's secondary proposal and you now have an AoE Stun + Immobilize combo that can affect bosses. That will probably be deemed overpowered for a blaster to have.
There is no blaster primary/secondary combo that has the potential for that much hard control. Once again, I'm guessing that is probably by design.
A self heal that doubles as an attack on a short recharge timer, AoE hard control that can affect bosses, and to-hit debuff on nearly every power is just a little overpowered when considered on an AT with the damage output that blasters have.
I strongly suspect that those considerations are exactly why we don't have Dark Blast for blasters already.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Howdy. I want Dark Blast for a blaster. Yea, the damage isn't fantastic, but all those tohit debuffs make for some very safe play to balance that out.
But to follow the theme, we're going to need a dark mastery secondary.
So here's my take on it.
Dark Blast doesn't need any changes. Port that sucker as is. Yes, some folks will whine about the lack of Aim, but DP and AR don't have it either, so meh, no need. We can keep skipping Dark Pit like we do now.
But new animations take time! New powersets involve work! Ok... let's use nothing but existing powers. Can we do so and keep the set in line with other blaster secondaries? Yes, we can.
Tier 1: Gravimetric Snare (Rename to Dusk)
Tier 2: Shadow Punch
Tier 3: Smite
Tier 4: Death Shroud
Tier 5: Build Up *Or Soul Drain as per Carnifax's post*
Tier 6: Dark Consumption
Tier 7: Tar Patch (Reduce radius)
Tier 8: Oppressive Gloom
Tier 9: Midnight Grasp
Thoughts? Problems? I can have dark blast now please?
Be well, people of CoH.