Please explain this...


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

I took my long time main tank, an Inv/Mace, into a solo mission against Arachnos. Ghost Widow was the EB waiting for me at the end of the mission.

My Inv/Mace has 2 builds, one with all the bells and whistles, and the second build which I took all the primary early and all the ST attacks and slotted them so that I could use this build when I was soloing ouroboros, or exemplaring to low level missions and still have a good consistent attack chain. No complete sets mainly common IOs, SO's and pieces of sets here and there that looked like they'd help. No set bonuses on this second build. I do have all my accolades, however.

I was in this secondary build, with ST attacks slotted and AoE's available but not slotted well. So I decided I would run this mission at -1/+4, at lvl 50, and was proceding along well. Then I got to GW. She held me immediately, and killed me in about 10 seconds.

Before you say, well she does this, you just have to come prepared, let me reiterate. She was only an EB. She was -1 to me, conned Yellow, but she held me 1st attempt, and even after held I ate 2 Break frees, and still could not escape it. I could see this happening if she was AV level, but EB level? on an invul tank? with status protection? and it was not like she stacked anything. She walked up to me, held me, and the rest of the Arachnos killed me. Is this working as intended? Does she have powers that ignore status protection? Is she perhaps broken? Are there any invul powers that are broken, that just aren't talked about on the forum because no one is playing invul anymore?

Trust me, I dont mind dying, but I have a feeling it should not be THIS easy for her to kill a hero. It was like her hold had a mag 100 when it should have been mag 10. I just really am wondering if something is broken here.


-Largo

Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian

 

Posted

What status protection. All the info on invul powers says protection against blah except psionics.
And yes she has a mag 100 hold


 

Posted

GW mostly does negative dmg, but the hold she has is ALWAYS 100 mag regardless of what rank she is, she could be a boss class signature and the hold will still be mag 100


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo View Post
Trust me, I dont mind dying, but I have a feeling it should not be THIS easy for her to kill a hero. It was like her hold had a mag 100 when it should have been mag 10. I just really am wondering if something is broken here.
You aren't really an HERO. Those have 20k-ish HP, most have PToD and they hit a lot harder then you. Yet, she's supposed to hold HEROES in one shot. (She did it to positron in the little video =P)

But yeah, it's working as intended, her hold is mag 100. Once you've been held, you lose pretty much everything except the small % the passive gives you. You still have better HP then a blaster, but not much more survivability, so it's normal you don't stay alive long.

The fact she's -1 won't change much about her incredible damage. But she'll have a little harder time hitting you (i think). There's two easy solution to beating her.

1) Insps.
2) Pop unstoppable. Even if she held you, you'll still be capped to her damage. =)


"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

 

Posted

Yup, next time bring lots and lots of purples. She can't hold you if she can't hit you.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo View Post
Trust me, I dont mind dying, but I have a feeling it should not be THIS easy for her to kill a hero. It was like her hold had a mag 100 when it should have been mag 10. I just really am wondering if something is broken here.
Ghost Widow pretty much defines the broken gimmick fight. Yes, as has been pointed out, her hold is mag 100. You can try to eat a bunch of purples and hope you are able to defeat her before they run out. Or you can just drop the mission and /bug it. If it is Daedalus's arc, that's not the last mission in it.

The Stolen Power arc is worth the princely sum of 2 merits, if I remember rightly.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Quote:
Or you can just drop the mission and /bug it.
Why are you telling someone to send in a bug report on something known not to be a bug?


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

I can't say I'm fond of someone encountering what is in many aspects an elite boss holding an I-win button, but unstoppable is a bigger I-win button when fighting elite bosses. Clickly resists do not get toggled-off.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Why are you telling someone to send in a bug report on something known not to be a bug?
It is a pretty absolute barrier to actually completing the mission; if that hold hits, and it always has a chance to, there's essentially nothing you can do, as the OP found out. I'd call that a bug.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

The Patrons are SUPPOSED to be scary to a hero. And if that means giving them hax abilities that make you have to change your strategy (or use one to begin with), then so be it.

Granted, it does feel cheap, but without that power, she'd just be another bag of HP for you to punch for 5 minutes. *yawn*

[edit] *Glares at Heraclea* I didn't realize that if you had to go to the hospital that you couldn't go back into the mission prepared for her.. OH WAIT, you can. Not a bug.


-STEELE =)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
It is a pretty absolute barrier to actually completing the mission; if that hold hits, and it always has a chance to, there's essentially nothing you can do, as the OP found out. I'd call that a bug.
Objection!

I've soloed that mission as a Tanker before, so it cannot be an "absolute barrier." Hard? Yes. Might require inspirations? Sure. Unbeatable? Hardly.

It's working as intended, even if you don't like what the intended design was.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
GW mostly does negative dmg, but the hold she has is ALWAYS 100 mag regardless of what rank she is, she could be a boss class signature and the hold will still be mag 100
Its this and the nice DoT with it while she pummels your gibbering self.


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Posted

i would have to throw in my 2 cents and agree with everyone that GW power is NOT a bug

cheap? yes it is, but its a signature NPC, but it doesnt stop poeple from winning

ALL of the signature NPCs have cheap powers, just look at half the freedom phalanx for pete's sake

statesman is a shining example of this
posi? hes a rad/rad defender with [overload]
synapse runs super speed with no end cost and has version of flurry thats strong and is cone, and his whirlwind does dmg

i could continue, but all of the signature NPCs are supposed to be unique and challenging, if they were exactly like players then they would be no challenge at all


 

Posted

This is a linguistic difference. Heraclea believes that 'doesn't work the way I want it to' is a bug. It's much closer to 'doesn't work the way it was designed to work.' Simply put, it's one of the quirks of Heraclea's manner of speaking, which just happens to waste the time of people whose job it is to check bug reports.


 

Posted

I think its bad game design that break frees dont work on her. Its not like its isn't beaten into your head to carry break frees when you face tough opponents as a blaster/controller/defender. But the one opponent that can cause a tank to have to carry a break free, it does no good at all. Sorry , I should have eaten 4 lucks instead. Silly.

I have beaten her before with other tanks and other ATs. My MA/SR scrapper, just took reds and never got held and killed her easily. Some other ATs I knew going in she could hold me, so I took lucks. I know my DM/DA stalker has killed her numerous times. The invul tank power Unyielding, I guess I thought was more powerful than what it was. And any Invul tank knows that if he HAS to click Unstoppable at the beginning of a prolonged battle, be it an EB solo or an AV with a team, it never works out well for the tank. Unstoppable is best used in the last 25% of the fight, when endurance is needed. When that nuke is used and when the villain is pulling out all the stops in a last dire attempt at victory. I have never used Unstoppable to begin any fight, and I will never use it too early.


-Largo

Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo View Post
And any Invul tank knows that if he HAS to click Unstoppable at the beginning of a prolonged battle, be it an EB solo or an AV with a team, it never works out well for the tank.
The only elite boss that I've ever had to fight through an unstoppable crash was tyrant (and solo), and that was a long time ago long before IOs. Perhaps I've lost some context for fighting elite bosses without being level 50, but unstoppable didn't cause me the slightest problem against Ghost Widow, and it certainly wouldn't have quickened the death I read about in the OP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
It is a pretty absolute barrier to actually completing the mission; if that hold hits, and it always has a chance to, there's essentially nothing you can do, as the OP found out. I'd call that a bug.
Except that it's not a bug. There's a lot you can do, it as already been explainned in the thread.

Keeping to /bug it, is as stupid as calling the cops everytime you see a speed limit sign telling them it's "bugged" and that there should be no limit.

The devs more then know that she have a mag 100 hold. You're just wasting the devs' time by continuously reporting it and/or suggesting people to report it.

If you're not happy with her hold, go to the suggestion forum.


"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

 

Posted

I do wish that the hold was only high enough to hold (almost) any character with one shot, but low enough that breakfrees are effective, however, I've defeated her many times on many different characters, either by having softcapped defenses or simply by having strong enough resistance to survive the holds.

Either way, she's also quite beatable when on a half-decent team, so I still see nothing worth complaining about. She (and sometimes Posi/Anti-Matter) are about the only ones I really fear going into a fight, and it's thrilling when you can beat her because of that.

If you try and don't succeed, come back with a plan and try again. She's beatable.


 

Posted

I think the best way is just bring an emp with u and have them cast CM on you about 10 times and keep it on u.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSK View Post
I think the best way is just bring an emp with u and have them cast CM on you about 10 times and keep it on u.
Eh, generally that's not necessary even on the STF facing a 54 AV version of GW... purple pills are easier and she only uses the hold every 30 seconds or so... soft cap ranged/negative defense and she'll only hit 1 time out of 10. If she gets lucky she gets lucky... pick yourself up and try again.

I'd rather have a debuffer or another solid damage dealer myself.

<edit>
And you'd need 8 stacked mez buffs (CM, ID, Clarify etc) to beat the hold.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome View Post

I'd rather have a debuffer or another solid damage dealer myself.
Insert Son/Son defender with Clarity here plz

I kinda wish there was more stuff like GW's hold in the game that took some level of teamwork and/or team makeup to do. (Notice I did say more not all - some of what makes CoX great is the ability to chuck a team together and roll. But on some "endgame" stuff, I think that hurts it a bit, but that's just me).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome View Post
Eh, generally that's not necessary even on the STF facing a 54 AV version of GW...
Unless it's a Master attempt. One lucky hold spells doom. In that case, you're best to have a sonic defender in my opinion, or a /thermal controller, even a kin for the increase density (but what kin these days takes that?), but I guess an empathy works too.


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Posted

She's not so bad. Pop a couple lucks and rage inspirations, and keep them going until she's down.

When the new arc was introduced in Cimerora I was all excited to test it and ran it on my Dark/EM tank. When I got to the end I ran into GW and popped nearly every inspiration I could click immediately. It was a pretty epic battle. I failed the first time but the second time I brought some Rage Inspirations along with Lucks and it went much smoother.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Unless it's a Master attempt. One lucky hold spells doom. In that case, you're best to have a sonic defender in my opinion, or a /thermal controller, even a kin for the increase density (but what kin these days takes that?), but I guess an empathy works too.
Three of the 6 successful MoSTF runs I've made were with no outside mez buffs; I simply made sure my negative defense was at 45% or more. If you do get nailed by sheer bad luck remember that it's DOT... a couple of rad heal auras, storm O2 boost heals or even an aid other or two will keep you alive; once you drop to the ground simply retoggle, eat a green or two and continue on. I've never been nailed on a MoSTF but have once or twice on a regular STF and that procedure worked fine.

If you happen to have the buffs available on the team then by all means use them... just realize it's not a disaster if you don't.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
Ghost Widow pretty much defines the broken gimmick fight. Yes, as has been pointed out, her hold is mag 100. You can try to eat a bunch of purples and hope you are able to defeat her before they run out. Or you can just drop the mission and /bug it. If it is Daedalus's arc, that's not the last mission in it.
Wow. Just... wow.


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