possibly a missed opportunity...


Arnabas

 

Posted

Now I haven't played Going Rogue yet...since I'm neither a friend nor a relative of anyone at Paragon Studios (or work for them) so that's why this is a possibly missed opportunity...

Enough rambling...let me explain.

Now we all know by now that Resistance means heroic and Emperor Cole means villainous. I personally think that there was a real opportunity to muddy the waters beyond what we've seen so far.

As there are two sides to every coin so there could have been two sides to each of the factions in Going Rogue. I'll give some examples.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Heroic while working for Emperor Cole:
No, you didn't misread that. Emperor Cole and his cronies give out missions that are good PR (however they don't tell you that, they make out that you're just being heroic for heroics sake), you save civilians from an outbreak of Ghouls from the tunnels, you disarm bombs in high population areas, saving hundreds of live and deliver aid packages to those in need. To the civilians who are none the wiser of what's really going on, you're a true blue hero. You get sent on all the 'in the spotlight' missions where good looks and charisma are as important as beating a giant monster to death with your bare fists.

Even back in paragon word filters through that your 'helping the masses' and the average joe on the street who really isn't that clued in would begin/still see you as a hero despite the fact you're working for a dictator, perhaps people think you're trying to make reforms from the inside. Of course you could be 'in on it' and despite what Emperor cole and friends tell you, you know these are PR stunts but major rep boosting PR stunts at that!

Villainous while working for Emperor Cole:
You're an attack dog that's let off the chain, Cole would use you much like he does Marauder, when someone needs a violent beat down and a large warning delivered to the rebellion that he isn't going to pull any punches he'll send you. These missions are definitely of the 'black ops' variety, nobody talks about them in the papers or the PR spin merely mentions violent clashes with the 'evil resistance'.

Further down the line you're inducted into more of the inner circle, the Asylums revealed, Chimera tasks you with assassinations of major resistance figures to keep morale down. You've shown you can be brutal but now you've got to show you can be subtle as well. These assasinastions are never mentioned outside of your contacts, the people on the street don't know what you do but they know you're with Emperor Cole, however there are hushed whispers about what you really do...
__________________________________________________ __________________________
Heroic while working for the Resistance:
Freeing the starving masses, doing generally good work, helping the homeless, taking out key military targets and generally throwing the yoke off the masses yearning to be free. It's clear you're one of the 'good guys' to the people back home, however the citizens of Praetoria may not see it that way.

Villainous while working for the Resistance:
There is one word to describe you, vicious. Paragon city AND Praetoria both see you as a terrorist, you go after highly populated targets for maximum media impact, who cares about a few innocent sheeple caught in an explosion when you destroyed an Asylum. You've poisoned aid supplies to give Emperor Cole a bad name and generally put people in harms way in your attempt to overthrow Emperor Cole, people don't matter as long as Cole and his precious utopia burn.
__________________________________________________ __________________________

It's a shame they just went with 'one side good, one side evil' when there were so many more options to explore.


 

Posted

Seeing as it's not out yet, and that they've told us that there are choices to be made in the missions, how can you know that it's *not* as black/white as the website suggests? You don't put the plot on the back of the book synopsis, after all.


Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

 

Posted

that's why I said it's a 'possibly' missed opportunity...I haven't played it yet so I can't say, I'm merely going by what we know...if it turns out there is options for heroics and villainy with each side...then hooray!


 

Posted

your description of villainous while working for the resistance pumped me up. Now I'm even more excited!


 

Posted

From the site:

Quote:
Immersive New Starting Experience

Start as a Praetorian and decide to follow the Loyalists or join the Resistance. Evolve into a Hero or a Villain based on your moral choices.
So, i fully expect a Loyalist to end up a hero or to be able to have a villainous Resistance member.


Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

Posted

The description of the resistance says its full of all sorts of outcasts, good and bad.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenswing View Post
The description of the resistance says its full of all sorts of outcasts, good and bad.
Additionally, it seems that Praetoria is a relativity nice place to live provided you tow the line.

Seems like it's a better place that the Rogue Isles at any rate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano View Post
Now we all know by now that Resistance means heroic and Emperor Cole means villainous. I personally think that there was a real opportunity to muddy the waters beyond what we've seen so far.

As there are two sides to every coin so there could have been two sides to each of the factions in Going Rogue.
There are - you're just simplifying the situation way too much

The framework of the GR storyline is Tyrant = evil, Resistance = good, but within that framework there's a lot of scope for moral grayness.
It's just like the current Heros vs Villain framework we have - the basic battle is good vs evil, but there are shades of gray too.

For example, on Primal Earth, a Hellion arsonist enjoys setting fire to buildings, and fights heroes who try to stop him.
On Paretorian Earth, that same Hellion would be against Tyrant, because Tyrant would naturally be opposed to random arson in his empire - the Hellion's goals and motivations remain the same, but in one dimension, he's up against the forces of good, and in another, he's up against a dictatorship.
So if the Hellion joined he Resistance because they gave him the best chance fo fulfilling his arsonist goals. that wouldn't make him good, just like the Praetorian Police officer who would try and stop his arson attacks wouldn't be evil by default.
Tyrant isn't just recluse in a white suit - just like the Resistance aren't the Freedom Phalanx in power armor - Praetoria is still good vs evil, but not in the same way as the good vs evil conflict on Primal Earth.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikar View Post
Additionally, it seems that Praetoria is a relativity nice place to live provided you tow the line.

Seems like it's a better place that the Rogue Isles at any rate.
Toe the line. As in putting one's toes at the edge of a line and standing at attention. Not chaining a line that's had a transmission failure to a pickup truck and taking it to a repair shop or well-equipped garage.

Gettin' back on topic, I'm going to wait and see what sort of behavior members of each side get up to before passing judgement on whether any opportunities were missed. It's been stated (I think on the site, maybe an interview, I'll double-check) that players can pick to be either Heroes or Villains at 20 regardless of what Praetorian faction they start as, so I can see a lot of room for gray area in Praetorian missions.


BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitt_Player View Post
Toe the line. As in putting one's toes at the edge of a line and standing at attention. Not chaining a line that's had a transmission failure to a pickup truck and taking it to a repair shop or well-equipped garage.
I was debating which one to use, but was too lazy to look up the actual phrase.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikar View Post
I was debating which one to use, but was too lazy to look up the actual phrase.
Well, "tow the line" is one of those really common errors that drive me irrationally crazy because my priorities are demented. Plus, after I posted, I realized that the 'e' and 'w' keys are right freakin' next to each other, so you could've meant to use the correct word, but your finger slipped. So now I feel like a dope.

See, if you'd posted "wto hte lien", I'd've been more justified in calling you on it.


BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.

 

Posted

Standard disclaimer: no inside information, I could be wrong.
Since the game has just started friends&family alpha, there is probably still time to add villainous resistance and heroic loyalist content if it does not yet exist. The major requirements are:
1) that the morality system supports this. Since we currently have 'villainous' and 'heroic' tags attached to missions instead of contacts (and there are some contacts with both tagged and untagged missions), I think it should/will be possible for a given contact to offer both 'good' and 'evil' missions.
2) that the devs want to do this. I think they do. For example the Tyrant and Calvin Scott bios on the GR site could have been far more black/white than they are. And even if they don't - they could, if enough players ask for it.

And there is also the possibility that the players themselves could do this through the Architect. I do not recall anything being said on if/how the 'morality' setting of Architect missions will interact with the 'morality meter' of characters but there is potential there as well.


I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
it is odd that it bothers you to this extend.
Lol, nice. (Umm, that was intentional, right?)

I understand Bitt, though... I feel the same about people writing "could of" instead of "could've".


Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Emperor Cole is the law, legally. My heroes will obey. The Resistance is terrorism, legally. My villains will be happy to assist. We'll see where the morality chips fall.


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
Emperor Cole is the law, legally. My heroes will obey. The Resistance is terrorism, legally. My villains will be happy to assist. We'll see where the morality chips fall.
I'll stay completely on the side of law an- OOh, badge.

*Goes Rogue*


In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
Emperor Cole is the law, legally. My heroes will obey. The Resistance is terrorism, legally. My villains will be happy to assist. We'll see where the morality chips fall.
But Recluse is the law, legally, in the Rogue Isles - shouldn't your Villains be fighting him instead of running errands for him?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
it is odd that it bothers you to this extend.
*Shakes fist ineffectually*

Anyway, in terms of laws versus morals, my hero characters tend to enforce the latter, but the new ones I make in Praetoria will probably end up exploring both sides of that spectrum.


BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.

 

Posted

This thread's title made my internal space-time continuum go crazy.

I missed an opportunity in the future? OH NOES!