Rad/Sonic - Lacks AoE but can solo Giant Monsters. enough said.
Storm/Ice - I can solo ITF rooftops with this one, but it takes a great deal of skill and isn't the fastest. Very skill intensive, but rewarding.
Traps/Dark - It's a mini-tank with cones. An IO build can soft-cap all vectors. My current inexpensive build has 46/46/46 defense, a self heal, Force of Nature to cap resists, Vengeance to over-cap defense, and (eventually) Eye of the Magus to extend the high resists duration to 3 minutes. Killing bosses can be a pain, but It's one of the next best things to a tank.
Quote:
My FF/elec defender can solo ITF rooftops, and his damage is as slow as a J.R.Tolkien book. All that is required is hover and enough ranged defense to handle the minuscule cimeroran ranged DPS. But, yes, it isn't the fastest, hah!
|
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
Storm/Ice - I can solo ITF rooftops with this one, but it takes a great deal of skill and isn't the fastest. Very skill intensive, but rewarding.
|
Quote:
Amazing simile.
|
Originally Posted by Dersk
My FF/elec defender can solo ITF rooftops, and his damage is as slow as a J.R.Tolkien book.
|
Traps/... can kill very fast, only making mine field is slow 
My traps/rad have no trouble soloing, although I never raise difficulty for more then +1/3 when I am, no mater which archetype I play, so can't say how would she do on x/8.
"If you want to win you must not lose."
"Easiest way to turn defeat into a victory is to put on the enemy's uniform"
"Better strategic retreat than dishonorable defeat"
- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AZKinger
Hi folks. Long-time player (with lots of breaks) that has only recently managed to get a toon to 50 (plant/storm troller). Been working on a tanker and scrapper but can't really decide what I want to commit to so I'm looking at Defender builds as well.
So ... Given that I tend to mix solo and team play (probably 50/50) is there a Defender setup that can actually do good damage and run quick missions (hopefully at x8 at some point)? I have literally no experience with Defenders but from what I've read they don't really look to have the damage output necessary. Thoughts and suggestions? |
I vote for a rad/psi or rad/dark defender. Psi has a very fast attack chain so you can kill single targets pretty quick. And dark blast would be a decent mix of aoe with tenebrous tentacles and nightfall. Keep the mobs still with tentacles and blast away.
My two cents, and I don't solo but would think that mitigation would be key.
Rad/NRG
I wouldn't think Kin would be good because you get excluded from SB and all of Rad's buffs apply to you. Energy is KB heavy and that's good mitigation, but not the best on teams.
I might be wrong, maybe the dps is low. Also think that fire/ would be good with energy.
Kin/Dark/Dark. Here's why:
Take everything except Repel and Inertial Reduction on the Kinetics side. Take everything except Moonbeam on the secondary. Night Fall and Torrent are optional, but Night Fall DOES come in handy, it being your only real AoE attack of any sort. Tenebrous Tentacles is technically optional, but comes in handy for keeping the stunned mobs (from Dark Pit and OG) bunched up. Take Hasten from the Speed pool (trust me, it will come in handy). Then take Oppressive Gloom, Dark Consumption, Soul Transfer, and Soul Drain. Or, if you prefer, swap Dark Consumption with Dark Embrace for slightly enhanced survivability, but if you REALLY need the armor, you're probably screwed anyways. With your other power choices, I'd either recommend taking Fitness (all but Hurdle), OR, something I've been experimenting with is taking the Presence pool, along with Recall Friend. (Plus Teleport, if you skipped one of the other powers on the secondary, like Torrent) But, I'm not *entirely* thrilled with Presence, so you might be better off with Fitness. Leadership is also an option, though I've yet to try it.
Slot Transfusion and Life Drain with Touch of the Nictus. Speed Boost with Performance Shifter, and Transference with Efficacy Adaptor (or vice versa, doesn't really matter a whole lot). Slot Blackstar with three recharge IO's, two damage, and one accuracy (or two accuracy, one damage. Take your pick.), Hasten with three recharge IO's. Also slot Soul Transfer with three recharges plus some heals and such. Take your pick on how to slot everything else. 
At this point, you can solo nearly anything (I could almost solo Adamastor, and I didn't have Life Drain fully slotted yet. Same goes for Jurassik. You can solo pretty much any mission other than Save The World. I tried.), you have a nuke that will recharge in approximately 1:45, with near-blaster damage levels (not to mention the debuffs), that you can recover from instantly (keep a few blues handy. Pop one after you nuke, then use Transference/Dark Consumption. That should last you until you start recovering again, assuming something survived the nuke). If you opt for the Presence pool option, you can almost indefinitely incapacitate entire mobs (of LT level or lower) between Dark Pit, OG, and Invoke Panic, just in case the nuke isn't up yet.
The slotting of Speed Boost (And I've six-slotted Increase Density with Titanium Coating for giggles) will on it's own get any team to love you for life, and the epicness of Transfusion and Transference properly slotted (which is just as useful solo as it is for teams) is just icing on the cake. Add in a ton of debuffs (between the Kinetics debuffs, and ToHit debuff from Dark Blast), and major damage (as far as defenders are concerned), and you have an awesome team player that's easily soloable at the same time. You even get some light control, to boot! 
<.<
>.>
This post got alot longer than I was planning on when I started... Send me a PM if you have any questions. I ran the above build for a very long time, and it's still my favorite character of all time. Alas, I lost my old account, and am now in the long process of rebuilding it to it's former glory. *sigh*
(Also, just as a footnote... FF/Energy seems to be fairly soloable and teamable, though I haven't gotten it to the higher levels yet.)
Heres a list of Defenders I solo with Regularly.
Dark/Dark - lvl 37 - +1/8 w/Bosses
Traps/Rad - lvl 28 - +0/8 w/Bosses
Storm/Elec - lvl 27 - +0/8 w/Bosses
Cold/Ice - lvl 28 - +0/8 w/Bosses
I have several other Defenders.These are the ones I solo with the most.
I dont play much these days, so I dont have a pile of level 50s yet.
Im still curious how people claim a Rad Primary Defender can solo easly?Iv yet to make a Rad/ Defender that can handle what my other Defenders can handle.
On a Controller having a /Rad Secondary makes it a easy to play and enjoyable build.Mainly because you can lock things down.The only Rad/ Defender I can think of that would be remotly capable of this would be a Rad/Dark Defender.It can lock down a mob and hold it in place for Rad's ancors.Otherwise, just make a Blaster and hope for the best.
Quote:
+1 rad/dark|
Originally Posted by Fatal_Mind
I vote for a rad/psi or rad/dark defender. Psi has a very fast attack chain so you can kill single targets pretty quick. And dark blast would be a decent mix of aoe with tenebrous tentacles and nightfall. Keep the mobs still with tentacles and blast away.
|
I have been on and off lvling a rad/dark/dark build. I love it. Once those mobs are locked down they are dead. Simple as. lvl 48 now and with a load of cheapy +rech bonuses and soul drain up nearly all the time the damage output is pretty respectable. And with AM up nearly all the time you can blast away non stop. Plus all that stackable mez comes in handy.
When I have teamed with it after solo'ing I sometimes get frustrated by slow tanks. My SG leader told me to stop embarrassing our tank by herding and locking down the mobs before he could even catch up. He isnt very experienced in tanking but even so it shows how tough this build can be.
Plus it works great in teams just as much as solo.
I am not a soloer, but based on teaming experience I can tell that the below listed combos could solo with no problem.
Dark Miasma/Dark Blast and Dark Miasma/Dual Pistols
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
Yes.| Defender that can solo quickly? |
Alternative answer: All of the above.
I was soloing the Traps/Dark +2x8 with Bosses the other day. The downside, I really should have turned off bosses, it does take a good while to chew threw 4-6 bosses at a time, and is fairly painful to boot. The upside, it was like completing a +2 and +3 RWZ challenge around every corner.
Anything/Sonic.
-Res for increased damage, you also get a AoE sleep at 28
To solo quickly, you need "just enough" defenses / defensive debuffs / controls to minimize face-planting and use of the "rest" button, and then its best to go all out to increase offense from there.
Dark/ is quite safe for soloing in my experience, but not as quick as several other sets. Rad, storm, TA, and traps offer not only -res, which dark offers, but they also offer -defense and other ways of (further) boosting damage.
For secondaries, the bugged AOE damage in ice blast--ice storm and blizzard still do damage at blaster levels when taken as a defender secondary; that hasn't been fixed yet--puts ice blast AOE DPS ahead of other defender blast sets. That's based on bugged damage, though, and its your call as to whether or not you would like to factor that into your decision making. Ice blast is also very solid for single target damage, which makes it worth considering anyways for solo play as a defender. The toughest part of the leveling curve if you pick ice blast is getting to level 29, at which point you can begin putting extra slots into bitter ice blast.
traps/son/dark - ton of control, solo GMs if you want, soft cap def to everything if you want (including psy). Very strong single target damage and you can always just hit them with sirens and drop a mine at their feet and then clean up from there.
Quote:
I think Ice Blast has quite a significant solo boost over other secondaries even barring the "bugged" AoEs. Freeze Ray at 16th is quite a "cool" power to help with solo work.|
Originally Posted by ShoeTattoo
... Ice blast is also very solid for single target damage, which makes it worth considering anyways for solo play as a defender. The toughest part of the leveling curve if you pick ice blast is getting to level 29, at which point you can begin putting extra slots into bitter ice blast.
|
Unless you regulary fight Bosses solo (Unlikely at 16th), this is a type of power that most defenders have to wait as much as 12 more levels for.
Just my opinion though.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
I think waiting until level 28 before even having a semblance of an attack chain is a compelling reason to exclude ice blast as a "quick" solo'ing set.
It is pretty good if you don't mind waiting around for nearly half the game though.
Quote:
The majority of leveling time comes later, rather than earlier than 29. The trip to 20 is particularly quick. And, Biospark's point about freeze ray is a good point to raise because the ability to lock down mobs is very helpful for minimizing defeats and use of the rest button. Plus, you get that bugged, hyper-damaging ice storm at 22 (if you take stamina at 20, which with ice blast you will probably want to do). |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think waiting until level 28 before even having a semblance of an attack chain is a compelling reason to exclude ice blast as a "quick" solo'ing set.
It is pretty good if you don't mind waiting around for nearly half the game though. |
With ice blast you get strong ST and AOE capabilities, along with a healthy boost to your ability to mitigate damage. It gets stronger just as you enter the 30s and mobs really start to pick up in their ability to mez and damage your defender.
If you pair up ice blast with dark or another even more defensively oriented primary, I would agree that soloing can be quite slow, at least until you hit level 29. If you match it up with traps, TA, storm, or rad, you'll solo quite well.
On a related point, TA/ice is generally underrated and probably even more underrated for its leveling speed, in my experience. Safety is provided relatively early through glue arrow, ice arrow, and freeze ray, while damage gets boosted by acid arrow, disruption arrow, and oil slick arrow (especially oil slick arrow, its like getting a mini-nuke on a base 180 second timer). Particularly if you have vet attacks to get even more value from acid arrow, the early levels can fly by.
With the upcoming change to vigilance, defender soloing speed will probably be less of a sore point for many players.
Quote:
Well it is actually lvl 31 before your St chain is decent. And no the trip to that point is not quick when you only have a 4 and 8 second attack. It's quick if you team it, but the thread title disagrees with that condition. It's so not quick it is actually slower than every defender blast set except elec.|
Originally Posted by ShoeTattoo
The majority of leveling time comes later, rather than earlier than 29. The trip to 20 is particularly quick. And, Biospark's point about freeze ray is a good point to raise because the ability to lock down mobs is very helpful for minimizing defeats and use of the rest button. Plus, you get that bugged, hyper-damaging ice storm at 22 (if you take stamina at 20, which with ice blast you will probably want to do).
With ice blast you get strong ST and AOE capabilities, along with a healthy boost to your ability to mitigate damage. It gets stronger just as you enter the 30s and mobs really start to pick up in their ability to mez and damage your defender. If you pair up ice blast with dark or another even more defensively oriented primary, I would agree that soloing can be quite slow, at least until you hit level 29. If you match it up with traps, TA, storm, or rad, you'll solo quite well. On a related point, TA/ice is generally underrated and probably even more underrated for its leveling speed, in my experience. Safety is provided relatively early through glue arrow, ice arrow, and freeze ray, while damage gets boosted by acid arrow, disruption arrow, and oil slick arrow (especially oil slick arrow, its like getting a mini-nuke on a base 180 second timer). Particularly if you have vet attacks to get even more value from acid arrow, the early levels can fly by. With the upcoming change to vigilance, defender soloing speed will probably be less of a sore point for many players. |
IME if the time it takes to get a painfully slow set up to speed is any point after 30 then it is very nearly half the leveling time. Not to mention it pretty much sucks playing it up until that point, but ymmv.
If someone is asking me about a quick soloing defender I'd only recommend ice if they have a PL to 30 ready to go. It is great after that point.
Sonic and Archery are the correct answer if the question is something that can solo quickly throughout the entire game, they mature early and keep getting stronger. Ice joins the mix if you are ok waiting until lvl 31 to start solo'ing "quickly".
And if you are looking at end game solo'ing speed I'd probably say a traps/arch/dark is the fastest you can make. It has the best primary for the task, the best aoe, decent st, and can self cap damage quite often. It tears through 0-1/x8 quite quickly even by the standards of other AT's.
Just to highlight what I'm talking about:
Arch gets a nice st chain by lvl 10. That chain eventually does 34.5 raw dps (arcanatime included) and burns 4.4 eps.
Ice gets its chain by lvl 28. That chain eventually does 38.5 raw dps and burns 5.8 eps
The question at that point is whether you want to wait that long to gain a little bit more damage and you will definitely need to have your endurance consumption under control if you plan on going ice.
For an AoE perspective it is the opposite, ice matures earlier, though arch isn't gimped in the early game like ice is for st. And in the end arch is way ahead of ice in aoe even with ice storm and blizzard set to blaster standards.
Frosticus: I don't know why the idea that you can solo quickly with an ice blast defender puts such a pebble under your shoe that you find it necessary to use words like "gimped."
I dusted off my level 29 TA/ice just a little while ago, to check on the hours she has been in-game so far. With *loads* of afk time, and enough time spent at the market to build up 33 million plus influence, it has taken 43 hours to get to level 29. This has mostly been a solo character (being on Protector, that's not uncommon), with one Sister Psyche TF (organized some months back by Blaze Rocker, if I recall correctly, as BR frequently does that on Protector) and some random teams mixed in every now and again. Slotting is SO only, at this point.
A few other things to mention:
A while back, I believe Silverado had a thread going in which he gave screenshots backing up claims to have solo'd AVs with an ice blast defender. I don't recall any similar threads about either sonic blast or archery defenders.
When stuff is held, it isn't punching you in the face or shooting you from range. Or mezzing you. You can hold stuff from level 16 with ice blast, and the two other blast sets you mention take longer to provide meaningful mitigation. Your traps / archery example makes good sense precisely because traps provides excellent mitigation and strong anti-mez capabilities. If the OP would enjoy rad, TA, or storm more than traps (traps isn't everybody's cup of tea, after all), then the superior mitigation in ice blast is particularly meaningful; RI goes down when mez hits a rad defender, TA defenders mitigate damage when solo *much* better with the extra control provided by freeze ray, and stormies benefit from having freeze ray whenever they fight ranged attackers that spread themselves out. On a related point, things can go downhill quickly for a soloing stormy when they suddenly get mezzed and hurricane goes down.
On another point, at lower levels it is very difficult to slot up three single target attacks really well, unless you wholly give up on slotting AOE damage and/or your primary. With ice blast, you take and slot up the first two ST blasts, then also slot up frost breath to improve your damage further. Frost breath is still useful when soloing and leveling up, especially when fighting 3 minion spawns (a very common scenario when soloing). The accuracy bonus makes it particularly useful in lower levels, when starved for slots. And, in your 20s ice storm goes very nicely with frost breath for a nice 1-2 punch against 3 minion spawns, as well.
Quote:
I'm using gimped in a relative sense. If we accept that conventional wisdom says you need to select certain primaries to solo quickly it only stands to reason the same can be said about secondaries.|
Originally Posted by ShoeTattoo
Frosticus: I don't know why the idea that you can solo quickly with an ice blast defender puts such a pebble under your shoe that you find it necessary to use words like "gimped."
|
Prior to getting BiB in the chain ice blast is the worst st damage defender, tied with elec blast.
I'm not sure how else to state that if you are prepared to wait until you have BiB then the set is very good, but prior to that it is less good than the other options.
Quote:
| I dusted off my level 29 TA/ice just a little while ago, to check on the hours she has been in-game so far. With *loads* of afk time, and enough time spent at the market to build up 33 million plus influence, it has taken 43 hours to get to level 29. This has mostly been a solo character (being on Protector, that's not uncommon), with one Sister Psyche TF (organized some months back by Blaze Rocker, if I recall correctly, as BR frequently does that on Protector) and some random teams mixed in every now and again. Slotting is SO only, at this point. |
Quote:
|
A few other things to mention: A while back, I believe Silverado had a thread going in which he gave screenshots backing up claims to have solo'd AVs with an ice blast defender. I don't recall any similar threads about either sonic blast or archery defenders. |
Killing AV's is much more determined by primary selection than secondary for defenders. If you pick a set with a decent -regen power you need about 25 dps to outdamage its regen. Which you could do with just powerpool attacks if you really wanted. If you pick traps you could technically defeat one with just brawl.
Quote:
| When stuff is held, it isn't punching you in the face or shooting you from range. Or mezzing you. You can hold stuff from level 16 with ice blast, and the two other blast sets you mention take longer to provide meaningful mitigation. Your traps / archery example makes good sense precisely because traps provides excellent mitigation and strong anti-mez capabilities. If the OP would enjoy rad, TA, or storm more than traps (traps isn't everybody's cup of tea, after all), then the superior mitigation in ice blast is particularly meaningful; RI goes down when mez hits a rad defender, TA defenders mitigate damage when solo *much* better with the extra control provided by freeze ray, and stormies benefit from having freeze ray whenever they fight ranged attackers that spread themselves out. On a related point, things can go downhill quickly for a soloing stormy when they suddenly get mezzed and hurricane goes down. |
Quote:
| On another point, at lower levels it is very difficult to slot up three single target attacks really well, unless you wholly give up on slotting AOE damage and/or your primary. |
Which makes it really nice that both arch and sonic have much faster cycling attacks built right into the set.
Arch: 2,4,10
Sonic: 3,6,10
Ice: 4,8,12
What this means is that both arch and sonic have much lower requirements to have a saturated attack chain. Ice ultimately has a higher DPS potential under high recharge if you ignore the -res of sonic, but it takes a lot of money to acheive it. With just SO's ice is surpassed by both arch and sonic in ST damage.
Quote:
| With ice blast, you take and slot up the first two ST blasts, then also slot up frost breath to improve your damage further. Frost breath is still useful when soloing and leveling up, especially when fighting 3 minion spawns (a very common scenario when soloing). The accuracy bonus makes it particularly useful in lower levels, when starved for slots. |
Quote:
| And, in your 20s ice storm goes very nicely with frost breath for a nice 1-2 punch against 3 minion spawns, as well. |
I'm willing to accept that pre BiB ice is a quick solo'ing set in the same way that forcefields is a quick solo'ing set. But I think that most would agree that the extra safety they afford probably isn't worth the reduction in kill speed from a solo stand point.
If you switch it over to their evil brothers, fire blast is far and away the most popular set for corrs both solo and teamed. This is because even with reduced values the mitigation offered by the buff/debuff sets is "enough" to get you to the point where more damage is the main goal. Especially if you are looking for something to fit the definition of "solo quickly".
I would guess that at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the time my TA/ice has spent in-game, to date, has been spent AFK or in the markets; I was doing offline chores between spawns a big chunk of the time I was leveling up, messing around in the markets for other significant chunks of time.
When you're sitting just shy of level 30 and you've spent about 1 hour per level actually adventuring, how much better can things get? Even if you cut the leveling time in half, which is probably much too optimistic if most time is spent solo on any kind of defender, you'll have spent a grand total of 15 hours less leveling up to just shy of level 30.
You're arguing as if the journey to 30 is a weighty issue. But, there just isn't enough time involved for your argument to be compelling.
Your point about primaries is valid; I do recall reading about /sonic defenders being able to solo GMs.
Quote:
My Defender is actually Rad/Sonic. The Ice Blast toon I used to solo AVs with was a Corruptor, long before the powerset was made available to Defenders.
|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Quote:
|
Quote:
Then I stand corrected (sit, actually).
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
My Defender is actually Rad/Sonic. The Ice Blast toon I used to solo AVs with was a Corruptor, long before the powerset was made available to Defenders.
|
Ahh thanks for the info I wondered about that.
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)