Basically you need a fully repeating chain of attacks with no pauses, and enough endurance to make sure you don't bottom out. You'll want to invest in IOs that give you lots of recharge, and you'll want as many of your attacks as possible.
You also have to consider DPA (damage per activation). Like, if you have an attack that does 200 damage, but takes 5 seconds to animate, it'd be more worthwhile to NOT use that power if you have 3 other powers that do 100 damage but only take 1 second each to animate. Especially if you can cast those three powers continuously with no interruption. I don't think any powerset in the game is that badly balanced, but you get the idea.
I can't think of what powersets you could/should use though. Gl figuring it out!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
My guess is that one of the sets is Super Strength for the Rage ability but I am not totally sure.
Quote:
I would say that's a negatory, because the crash gives the finger to any non-temp attacks (Yes, Brawl too =( ).|
Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
My guess is that one of the sets is Super Strength for the Rage ability but I am not totally sure.
|
But ST damage is necessary as well, as AoE attacks generally do less damage. Energy Melee, for example.
Seven years of heroism. Seven years of friendships. Seven years of saving the world. Seven years of virtuous selflessness.
You will return, for you are the mighty City of Paragon, the City of Heroes.
Hm. I would have thought that the ability to have perma-rage running while using hp and endurance refilling abilities from EA would solve a problem like that.
I guess the best candidate would be Fire Melee since its attacks tend to be quick and high damage.
Quote:
Right off hand, somebody was pulling your leg when they told you a tank can big/game hunt.. Numerically, I'm not sure it's possible without temporary powers such as Shivan's or the Bio-Nukes. One of the reasons Controllers / Corruptors / Defenders / Masterminds can "big game hunt" is that they have powers that can lower a targets regeneration rate. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers don't get such debuff's. |
Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
What does it take for a tanker to beat up an AV/GM? I have read that it is possible but have seen no hint as to what powerset combo was used. Their damage output is lower than a scrapper and they don't have any powers to kill regen so I'm wondering what it takes?
|
The regeneration rate on AV/GM's is supposed to be set intentionally high as to be out of range of the melee damage types... and for the most part against SO's, it is. As far as I'm "aware" Fire / Shield scrappers and Brutes are among the only melee classes that can generate the DPA/DPS required to overcome AV/GM regeneration on a consistent basis.
Three things you'll need to solo an AV.
- The ability to output a sustained attack chain dealing over 95dps just to equal an AV's regeneration... realistically 120dps or better unless you want to be at it all night.
- Enough recovery/end reduction to sustain that attack chain indefinitely... if you're pushing 120dps you'll be dealing 25 damage per second to the AV after his regen is accounted for... and AV's have 28k + hit points. You'll need to pound on them for long periods of time. Unless you can go full out without your end bar moving you'll probably fall short.
- The ability to survive an AV's attacks unassisted indefinitely... several tankers can handle this easily.
By the way, the AV regeneration is why debuffing AT's have it easier... if you can slow or stop regen then you don't need to output as much damage.
I've soloed a few AV's with my BS/Regen scrapper... it took a small slice of forever. My Ill/Rad controller (perma-PA build) has soloed a couple of them as well, and it was much easier. I've never tried with a tanker... neither of my Stone tanks could hack it due to the -damage in Granite and relative squishiness outside of Granite. CMA can't maintain the end drain long enough to accomplish the task; and building for more endred or recovery would probably cut my damage output.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
Several scrapper builds are capable of soloing AV's... GM's are another story however. As I mentioned earlier I know that BS/Regen can take down some AV's as I've done it... Chimera and Bobcat are two I've taken out with that combo and I've heard of other scrappers taking out other AV's. Heck, I took out Chimera & Bobcat back in issue 7 on SO/HO enhancements so it'd be much easier with a good IO build. It's just such a long process actually killing them that after seeing if it could be done I didn't see any reason to do it again.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Right off hand, somebody was pulling your leg when they told you a tank can big/game hunt.. Numerically, I'm not sure it's possible without temporary powers such as Shivan's or the Bio-Nukes. One of the reasons Controllers / Corruptors / Defenders / Masterminds can "big game hunt" is that they have powers that can lower a targets regeneration rate. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers don't get such debuff's.
The regeneration rate on AV/GM's is supposed to be set intentionally high as to be out of range of the melee damage types... and for the most part against SO's, it is. As far as I'm "aware" Fire / Shield scrappers and Brutes are among the only melee classes that can generate the DPA/DPS required to overcome AV/GM regeneration on a consistent basis. |
Some GM's might be doable by scrappers but it'd take a really optimal build; those suckers have double the HP of an AV and consequently higher regen. I'm not sure any tanker builds could hack it due to lower DPS.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
I can assure you, there has been no leg pulling. With IO's, it is very possible to build a tanker who can solo an AV. I've done so with my SD/DM tank, without the use of temp powers. With enough recharge, and a solid single target attack chain, you can overcome AV regen. If you look around the search engine, you may still find a video of someone's SD/DM doing this. So "numerically", it's possible.
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Right off hand, somebody was pulling your leg when they told you a tank can big/game hunt
|
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
First, you'd have to decide "how" you want to solo them. With or withouts temps? With or without insps. Though even with both, i don't think you can solo a GM.
I'd probably try either fire, shield or elec for primary. Since they all boost damage or +rech and +end for elec.
For the secondary, it mostly depends on your budget. Warmace, EM, fire, DM and stone are all very good in ST damage.
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Quote:
I remember reading that Nihilii was able to solo an AV with his Shield Defense/Dark Melee Tanker. And here's an old (partial) quote of his that I found on the subject:|
Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
What does it take for a tanker to beat up an AV/GM? I have read that it is possible but have seen no hint as to what powerset combo was used. Their damage output is lower than a scrapper and they don't have any powers to kill regen so I'm wondering what it takes?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
You need over 95 DPS to solo an even level AV without any resistances, as they regen 95hp/s. However, ideally you want much more than that to account for resistances, heals, tier9s and stuff. 150 is a good value to shoot for... as long as it's not S/L damage. Bringing me to my next point : AVs have much more S/L resistance than the average joe. I've got a 190 DPS S/L damage scrapper and a 170 DPS Negative damage tanker, the tanker can solo AVs the scrapper can't.
The two best tanker attack powersets for the task are, in my opinion, fire melee and dark melee. The others don't seem to come close. Ideally, you also want damage boosts from your primary. Shield is your best bet if you keep foes around to increase your damage output with AaO. Note DM also benefits from fodder with Soul Drain, hence I believe Shield/DM is the ideal pairing for DM. If you'd rather fight one on one, Fire and Ice seem to have damage auras and other great tools - granted, I don't speak from experience for these two powersets, just looking at it on paper. Burn looks like great DPA for tankers, as I don't think AVs run from it, and Fiery Embrace is always good to have, especially if you go Fire Melee. As for Ice, Energy Absorption should take care of all your end issues, allowing you to slot more aggressively towards recharge, accuracy or damage through procs (normal damage at 95% being a given for any combo). |
Winteriel Ice/Fire/Soul Tanker | @TBoxer Global | City of Heroes R.I.P. (2004-2012)
Quote:
It's entirely possible, but the builds required to do so will be a lot tighter than they would be for Scrappers, imo. Aside from damage constraints, Tankers also have a much lower DPE than Scrappers, so end reduc / recovery will be critical.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Right off hand, somebody was pulling your leg when they told you a tank can big/game hunt.. Numerically, I'm not sure it's possible without temporary powers such as Shivan's or the Bio-Nukes.
|
Also, the Tanker sets that can do it will be more limited than Scrappers, not to mention with AVs will be killable.
One of the reasons Controllers / Corruptors / Defenders / Masterminds can "big game hunt" is that they have powers that can lower a targets regeneration rate. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers don't get such debuff's.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
The regeneration rate on AV/GM's is supposed to be set intentionally high as to be out of range of the melee damage types... and for the most part against SO's, it is. As far as I'm "aware" Fire / Shield scrappers and Brutes are among the only melee classes that can generate the DPA/DPS required to overcome AV/GM regeneration on a consistent basis.
|
I suspect (but don't know for sure) this is why some of the newer enemies (like Reichsman) we've fought have had so much hp - it can set a higher minimum time to kill.
2) If you're counting IOs, there are far more Scrapper combinations that can solo AVs than Fire/Shield. Off the top of my head, I've seen the following combinations work: Fire/Shield, DM/Shield, DM/SR, DM/Invuln, Kat/SR, Kat/Regen, Claws/Regen, DB/Invuln, DB/WP... hmmm, there are probably others, too. Some combos may not be able to take down some AVs (Diabolique / Nemesis are two of the tougher ones, iirc), of course.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Three things you'll need to solo an AV.
|
Note: I've never made an AV soloing build, however. They're too precise and mechanical for me.
Minor Nitpick: A lvl50 AV has around 28k hp, not 40k+.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Some GM's might be doable by scrappers but it'd take a really optimal build; those suckers have double the HP of an AV and consequently higher regen. I'm not sure any tanker builds could hack it due to lower DPS.
|
Quote:
I stand corrected, I guess I'd mentally transposed GM & AV hit points.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Minor Nitpick: A lvl50 AV has around 28k hp, not 40k+. GMs are essentially unsoloable ATs without regen debuffs. AVs can be pulled off because their regen (hp/sec) is low enough to allow it. Last time I checked, lvl50 GMs regen around 300 hp/sec. Even the best possible Scrappers can't reach that, let alone beat it by a large enough margin to defeat them. |
If GM's are in the 300/sec regen range then absent -regen debuffs soloing them is completely out of the question for anyone... I don't think I've heard of any scrapper combinations that could put out 300dps. I've heard a few approach the 290 mark, but not 300. There's a fair variance between GM's though; the Kracken isn't anywhere near as tough as a monster DE.
Although you're right about level, even though all GM's are "leveless" as far as conning goes Kraken's designed for lowbies to kill and the Monster DE are designed for large groups of 50's. I have heard of a few controller builds soloing GM's... someone soloed Lusca with an Ill/Rad a while back... but it took hours.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I reckon it's possible for a Firetank to go into RV and solo GW. The problem lies with PvPers being there. That's it. When I say solo I will use the Devs past definition of solo.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
GMs regen at 353hp/sec.
I'd guess Shield/Fire and Shield/Dark would be the best combos to solo even level AVs at 50
I've seen a couple posts here that some melee types have solo'd an AV. Now are we talking the glorified boss that spawns when you solo a mission that has an AV/Hero in it? Or we talking a full strength AV? My Brute (SS/Will) can handle the glorified boss hero/AV, as I am sure many melee types can. (Although that hero female with the sword and the gold armor is particularly irritating to me, Valkyrie - thought I had blotted her name out, need more whiskey.) But if you are talking about taking any AV/Hero on set to full strength while solo, may the dieties that be shine on you brother.
Quote:
Full up AV's are what we're talking about, and there are indeed some melee builds that can take one down. I even know of someone who took down EIGHT AV's at once solo with a scrapper... admittedly they were handpicked AV's for the character. Do a search on the scrapper boards and you should find the thread about it.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I've seen a couple posts here that some melee types have solo'd an AV. Now are we talking the glorified boss that spawns when you solo a mission that has an AV/Hero in it? Or we talking a full strength AV? My Brute (SS/Will) can handle the glorified boss hero/AV, as I am sure many melee types can. (Although that hero female with the sword and the gold armor is particularly irritating to me, Valkyrie - thought I had blotted her name out, need more whiskey.) But if you are talking about taking any AV/Hero on set to full strength while solo, may the dieties that be shine on you brother.
|
Most AV's take quite a bit of time for any melee character to solo, but if you can survive the attacks and maintain a sustained 100+ dps attack chain without running out of end over a 20 minute stretch or more then you can do it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
Actually, Nihilli's best is 9 AVs at once - he has the fight recorded on his WeGame account (among others, such as his Shield/DM, Vhu, in action).
|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Full up AV's are what we're talking about, and there are indeed some melee builds that can take one down. I even know of someone who took down EIGHT AV's at once solo with a scrapper... admittedly they were handpicked AV's for the character. Do a search on the scrapper boards and you should find the thread about it.
|
Quote:
Three things you'll need to solo an AV.
|
What does it take for a tanker to beat up an AV/GM? I have read that it is possible but have seen no hint as to what powerset combo was used. Their damage output is lower than a scrapper and they don't have any powers to kill regen so I'm wondering what it takes?