This team really needs a....
Anyway, I'll take anybody on a team as long as they are trying. I'll even take the Kin that doesn't have Speed Boost, the Mastermind with no pets, or the Force Field guy with no single bubbles or dispersion bubble. I mean, hey, whatever.
Emotionally, however, I always want more control. I love stacking senseless amounts of control. Every team needs more control, even a team of 8 controllers!
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Sadly, educating them rarely works and teams are so easy to come by I just don't bother wasting my time on the ones that are highly likely to be bad. However, on teams I lead, when someone says "we need an X" I just say "We sure don't!" and we then wildly succeed no matter what. I guess that counts as educating people.
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@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
It's not just that teams can succeed with very different compositions of ATs and powersets -- it's that they can succeed in different ways. Not every team that succeeds does so by steamrolling willy-nilly. Sometimes a team uses control, sometimes AoE damage, sometimes numerous competing single-target attackers going wild, sometimes herding, sometimes just buffs itself into invincibility, sometimes carefully picking off and isolating a few enemies at a time, sometimes melting everything with debuffs, and so on. I've even been on an oddball "drop-centered" team using placed debuffs and Trip Mines to do the bulk of our killing.
Variety is the spice of life -- I find it more interesting when I have to adapt a bit to work better with other players' playstyles or their given powersets.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
...more non-Brutes, if I'm playing mine at the time. They're stealing my Fury, damn it!
In general, I just want a team of good players (or mostly good), but sometimes it does help to shift one player from primarily DPS to primarily support when going against tough stuff (ie. +3 Vanguard or Longbow on an 8-man team in RWZ).
Example: Last night my 4 blaster (I was one, SK'd on a pre-Shiver DP/ice), 1spines/reg scrapper, 1 Rad/rad def, 1 Nightwidow, 1 SD/FM tank was fighting just such a +3 (mostly Longbow) mission. We had a couple wipes, despite being mostly rather solid players, usually from ambushes. Now we didn't NEED for someone to swap chars to complete the mission. We could easily have shifted tactics to not be facing full spawns at once (via pulls etc.), but that would have changed the rapid pace that many of us very much prefer to play.
I decided that I would switch from my lvl 26 DP/ice blaster to my fairly IO'd Ice/FF troller, and the Nightwidow switched to her Merc/Pain MM. Well, as many of you would expect, things went much more smoothly (and rapidly) after those two swaps. A big part of it was getting mezz protection (from Dispersion bubble) which was absent on 5/8 previously, so the Longbow Nullifiers stun-fest was less of an issue (every-spawn Ice Slick and Shiver didn't hurt either and the agro spreading and support from the MM). We didn't mind making the switches, and the team benefited.
My advice to the OP, is to play what you like to play. That said, try and develop a variety of different ATs to a relatively high level, get them fine-tuned with some IOs (or pick combos that still perform at a high level without them) and have a diverse toolbox of fun available. Most good players/leaders don't care what you bring to the party, though they may suggest 1 volunteer to swap chars, if the team makeup looks particularly vulnerable/low-damage. Almost always a 1 character swap can solve any team tactical issue, and most of the time even that is not necessary.
Bottom line, have fun.
Most good players/leaders don't care what you bring to the party, though they may suggest 1 volunteer to swap chars, if the team makeup looks particularly vulnerable/low-damage. Almost always a 1 character swap can solve any team tactical issue, and most of the time even that is not necessary.
Bottom line, have fun. |
...but what do you and other people consider a "low damage" team?
I'm curious and don't plan on asking your reasoning nor arguing your opinion...
...but what do you and other people consider a "low damage" team? |
Inv/SS Tanker
Shield/Axe Tanker
Dark/Shield Brute
?/? Brute
Empathy/Dark Defender
?/? Defender (maybe Kin?)
Some kind of Arachnos Widow or Soldier who quit partway through, iirc
Necro Mastermind of some sort
Admittedly we had some difficulty coordinating (that's a nice way of saying "some players completely ignored suggestions, advice, and desperate pleas"), but overall, we ended up unable to finish the ITF. We got to Romulus, but it took us 3-4 prolonged efforts to finish him, and we accidentally did so out of line-of-sight of the healing Nictus, so then we had to fight it. Nobody had any nukes or Shivans. We tried ganging up on the thing and felt it was healing too well, so we tried staying waaaay back and pasting it with...Defender ranged attacks and some Nemesis Staffs from the four Tankers and Brutes. Eventually we talked the Dark/Shield brute into soloing the Nictus with some taunted-in enemies to fuel Against All Odds and Soul Drain while we stayed back and plinked. Even that didn't wear down the Nictus's healing ability.
Interestingly, to me anyway, some Brute players can apparently only think about Fury; the Brute in question didn't seem to have even been aware that AAO and Soul Drain benefit from multiple enemies surrounding him; at first he pooh-poohed the idea on the grounds that he "already had Fury built up, so what's the point?"
Through much of the TF my Inv/SS Tanker (who is decently slotted for damage, sporting Rage-aided six-slotted Jab, Haymaker, Knockout Blow, Footstomp, Hurl, and four-slotted Boxing) was noticing that his orange damage numbers often seemed to be bigger than the gray numbers other players were putting up, which perhaps was an omen of evil portent.
Looking at two grown-up brutes and an Arachnos of some sort, MM pets and a Kin, if I am remembering rightly, I wouldn't have called that a "low damage" team particularly. But it was painfully slow at grinding down Romulus even when he wasn't being healed, and it ultimately failed to get the job done -- despite surviving. It was a damage issue of some sort.
No merits that night!
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I want teams who just want to have fun. As soon as I start feeling that I'm working instead of playing a game I'll get bored.
I also like a chatty teams with lots of bad BAD puns and jokes when attacking enemies.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
I'm curious and don't plan on asking your reasoning nor arguing your opinion...
...but what do you and other people consider a "low damage" team? |
It's a good question. My best answer is, teams that have average players (not bad, but not uber, i consider myself Avg or slightly above avg. So it's not ment to be an insult. ) who are sporting mainly Tanks, Defenders, and Controllers, with Average builds. This does not result in alot of fire power. Great defence, but not alot of fire power. Really good players will make nearly anything work on twicked out builds, but us Avg fokes, not so much. heh.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
I should answer my own question. Low damage teams to me are...
For teams small in size (4 players and down): Teams with 1 or more players who either do not, can not, or will not frequently push their attack buttons.
For teams large in size: Many factors...
1) Teams with those players from above who don't/can't/won't attack
2) Teams that lack a significant amount of aoe damage powers relative to their level (a large team at level 12 with few aoe attacks is normal... at level 50 abnormal)
3) Teams that lack a significant amount of damage buffs
4) Teams that lack a significant amount of enemy debuffs
I'm not saying that teams that have these qualities won't succeed. I am simply saying that teams that have these qualities are generally (key word "generally") low in damage relative to other teams.
I've seen some people mention things like "yeah, imagine if we had 8 emps on the team... it would be so terrible damage wise." I've been on 8 emp teams. I can show you 8 emp teams. There are lots of words to describe 8 emp teams. "Low Damage" are not such words. Perhaps the 8 emps others imagine are the "players who can't/won't/don't attack". The 8 emps I have played with call themselves "a rolling nuke" for legitimate reasons.
Teams with large amounts of Controllers and Defenders really shouldn't be generally considered "low damage". I'm not sure how one could possibly consider such teams "low damage" unless they imagine the Controllers and Defenders as people who "can't/won't/don't push the attack buttons."
Use to be anything really...
But then the difficulty slider came in the picture...
Teams with large amounts of Controllers and Defenders really shouldn't be generally considered "low damage". I'm not sure how one could possibly consider such teams "low damage" unless they imagine the Controllers and Defenders as people who "can't/won't/don't push the attack buttons."
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I think more people play like that then they do like you discribe. And, as a result, defenders and controller heavy teams in the REAL world, (pug land, were some of use are forced to live and game..) are general saw as lower damage teams. Oh yeah, you can get 8 top notch emps and they can steamroll, but how often you think your going to run into THAT when your out there pugging? I've fallen into my fair share of "uber" pugs of rolling thunder, but there rarer then the run of the mill, "maybe we should look for alittle more fire power.." teams.
This is a mentality i see alot on the boards. An assumption that the masses of player out there are as good, knowlageable, or dedecated at the board going memember are. And they AREN'T. It's not to say they arent good players, but people who take the time to read and post on offical boards tend to be alittle more into the game then the avg public and thus, tend to know and proform slightly better. Don't be fooled. These message boards reflect a small minortiy of the real player base.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
This is a mentality i see alot on the boards. An assumption that the masses of player out there are as good, knowlageable, or dedecated at the board going memember are. And they AREN'T. It's not to say they arent good players, but people who take the time to read and post on offical boards tend to be alittle more into the game then the avg public and thus, tend to know and proform slightly better. Don't be fooled. These message boards reflect a small minortiy of the real player base.
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While i don't mind joining random teams, if i have to make mine especially for a tf i'd rather have it as good as it can be. I'm probably doing that TF only for merits so the faster it can be, the better. So i tend to prefer teams with a single tank (and not 4 of them), 2 rather specialized supports (usually kin, rad, FF or emp) then fill in with blasters and scrappers. I prefer defenders over controllers as they tend to be more focused on what helps the team the most (buffing/debuffing) rather than useless controls (at lvl 50), and peacebringers/warshades are way too bad in the hands of the average player to be useful to anything but spawning nictus.
Is it needed ? It isn't, of course. But i prefer to run a TF in 1 hour steamrolling everything and herding maps while having fun than doing it in 2 hours and spending half the time running after mobs flying everywhere or unloading my AoEs in a pack of 3 mobs.
Overall though the only teams i will leave (or kick someone from) are the ones with a very annoying AT, or one that doesn't fit at all with my playstyle.
The ATs i like having around the most are kin and FF defenders. Both of them dramatically increase the fun i have either by providing total safety or a massive amount of damage.
Dark armor lover.
The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.
While i don't mind joining random teams, if i have to make mine especially for a tf i'd rather have it as good as it can be. I'm probably doing that TF only for merits so the faster it can be, the better. So i tend to prefer teams with a single tank (and not 4 of them), 2 rather specialized supports (usually kin, rad, FF or emp) then fill in with blasters and scrappers. I prefer defenders over controllers as they tend to be more focused on what helps the team the most (buffing/debuffing) rather than useless controls (at lvl 50), and peacebringers/warshades are way too bad in the hands of the average player to be useful to anything but spawning nictus.
Is it needed ? It isn't, of course. But i prefer to run a TF in 1 hour steamrolling everything and herding maps while having fun than doing it in 2 hours and spending half the time running after mobs flying everywhere or unloading my AoEs in a pack of 3 mobs. Overall though the only teams i will leave (or kick someone from) are the ones with a very annoying AT, or one that doesn't fit at all with my playstyle. The ATs i like having around the most are kin and FF defenders. Both of them dramatically increase the fun i have either by providing total safety or a massive amount of damage. |
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
Yeah, asking for player's of Sister Flame's ability is probably asking for too much when considering the "average player".
I'd rather teach some of these noobs to be better teammates so there are more of them around when i need them. heh.