Crazy Salvage Mark Ups

In WoW that is true but here the list price and the buy it nao price are identical. The difference is that the buy it nao price is hidden. HK's basic request is to un-hide it.

(as a side note, in case anyone wonders, I don't like the idea I'm just trying to clarify it since HK has such an... interesting writing style)

thats the thing..no one would even BOTHER trying to get more than something is actually worth anymore. the type of interface im suggesting would essentially make it a complete waste of time. either two things would happen, the prices would floor or they would skyrocket depending on the actuall DEMAND for the item. the prices would set in, and maybe change a little but nothing that would make you say DAMN! sure you could TRY and get a high number for worthless(treasure to some)salvage but once the price sets in it becomes ultimately the BUYERS market.

No, it's already a buyers market. Sales only EVER execute at the buyers price. The only way sellers can force the price is if someone gets a monopoly. Since that is pretty much impossible in this market it's a buyers market. People can get a temporary monopoly by buying up all of the stock of an item but these monopolies never last for long (less than 24 hours, often less than an hour). Sooner or later someone comes along and starts offering stock at a price where it's not profitable to buy them out and relist at which point the monopoly collapses.

The reason for the price fluctuations is to do with time. Essentially the nature of an MMO economy means that there is no "market price" in the economic sense. Instead what happens is that an items "market price" is a function of time. If you demand to get an item right now then that will cost you a certain amount. But, if you're willing to wait a little while for your item then the market price is lower.

The only change a visible buyout price would do is mean that if you insist in paying the market price of an item right you know exactly what it is rather than paying a little bit more. The prices will still be a function of time, people who are willing to wait will still get bargains, people who are insist on buying items immediately will still pay a lot more than they need to.

Based on the above, I don't think you have a very good understanding of human nature.

I think you're confusing price spikes with equilibrium prices. People can choose not to spend 100k on a piece of common salvage right now, but they still do it because they don't want to wait five minutes for someone to list it more cheaply. These people will always exist, and no amount of information will stop them from overspending in the name of impatience. Giving more history would help subsequent bidders to avoid following the upward trend, but prices already fall back to equilibrium after a short period so this wouldn't fundamentally change the market's operation.

In my opinion, salvage is already a buyer's market. I can always get what I want at a reasonable price with a minimal wait, and if a seller wants to move something quickly then they have to list it (relatively) cheaply. In fact, it's the buyers that are screwing it up at the moment through lack of patience or lack of common sense.

Based on the above, I don't think he has a very good understanding of how the CoX market works at all.

lol

(Explanation: this game's PvP is terrible post-I13, but it's still better than anything else out there. Unfortunately the devs realize this so they refuse to un-**** the system.)

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

You're confused. Worth, as you go on to say, is relative.
If you make it worthless for me to sell it to you then I simply wont, I'll drop it off at the closest store.

Missing the point. I've got several hundred million (each) on multiple toons right now. I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 level 50 toons. Most, at best, are decked out in common IOs. One is completely kitted out. Some are still in SOs.

Do I wind up paying crazy "Buy It NAO!" pricing with the built-in impatience tax?

HELL NO.

Simply because some people have a lot of Inf and a bunch of newly minted level 50's doesn't mean they HAVE to have all the stuff now.

And if more people realized this and weren't willing to bid "creep" (never mind that doubling and redoubling bid amounts is NOT "creeping") if they don't get an immediate fill...

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Congratulations.

No. No it's not. But here, it's pointless and would add massive overhead to an already burdened system.

Shenanigans. Simply because YOU don't like bidding and wish the market were a store please do NOT try to ad populum and assume that "most people" don't either.

forum cartel/trolsl excluded, follow the leader and all that. i really thought i wasnt alone on this.

i dontt have the wont or time to quote everyone but some it, was most likely biased because you are used to fail,or found a way to make fail work for you.

Not talking every TYPE of item. I'm talking about every instance of every type of item. You know, those 500+ luck charms, etc, etc, all the standing bids, everything.

Simply because it works in the context of WOW does not follow that it will work here.

Bullpucky.

That you know of.

Not necessarily.

The market here is NOT broken. Only some people's understandings of how it works.

And I'm saying it wouldn't.

Come back and talk to me when you have a real argument that isn't an attack on someone else.

Ah, now we get to the root of this stupidity.
Lousy spelling aside, the game is NOT dying.
We've had enough threads locked over this subject that I'm not going to argue that with you here.

Simply on your say-so? Okay!
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What? Oh yes, sorry about the derisive laughter. I truly couldn't help myself.

You've been playing here a month. And, because you are having a problem with instant gratification, the market here doesn't work?

Let's just say that a large number of people here beg to differ.
Maybe you're used to WoW with it's few hundred thousand players and a few million farming RMTers. If so, more power to you. It doesn't work like that here. If that makes you want to drop the game, I'm sorry. Turning this game into a WoW clone isn't going to save you either.




No. Sorry. It's NOT. WoW is an ANOMALY. And the sooner you, and many other people realize this, the better off the MMO market will be.

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Uhm. What? You may want to rethink this a bit before trying to push forward with this particular argument.

No. Sorry. Wrong. Go down to one of the Field Trainers in Atlas. Or to to at Ticket Vendor in AE. THOSE are stores. Items listed at a regular, unchanging price.

As always, the answer is "it fluctuates".

You've been here a whopping MONTH and you're trying to tell me that your small sample size for checking over the market trumps people who've been here since before there even WAS a market?

Pardon the derisive laughter. It's completely involuntary.

Prices in the last 20 months that I've played (on EVERYTHING, including purples) have fluctuated. With Issue 13, the price of purples shot into the stratosphere because people took up full time AE farming, reducing the amount of purples that are randomly generated through play of regular content.

Sorry, but it's changing, even now. So you're wrong.

Sorry, but you're really in no position to make these proclamations about how it's "always" going to be.

That's because you don't understand the system you're utilizing.

WHAT people want isn't the problem here. It's "how much are they willing to pay to get it".

Unfortunately for you, people with a lot more inf than you have are willing to pay a lot more than you are.

Thus you add to the problem.

Hurting their feelings? No. Feelings have nothing to do with this. What you're doing, though, is removing yourself as a source of market supply. When enough people function like this, supply drops, even in the face of constant (or increasing) demand. As such, prices climb. Depending on how much demand spikes at a given time will determine how much the price spikes. And, barring someone dumping a lot onto the market, the price will never quite fall back to the previous low levels.

Sorry, but if you need something to build a recipe, by definition it isn't junk. Junk is something that has no use.

You can repeat this as often as you like. It won't make it true. It'll simply lead to higher asking prices.

That's because you don't understand the system you're asking for, nor the systems you're asking this to be dropped on top of.

You hope. You know what the current solution to getting rid of product that goes for more from a vendor than on the market? It gets vendored. Meaning it's removed from play and usable by NOBODY.

That's exactly what'll happen to just about everything where the price floor drops below vendor cost. Then, once market supply clears out, you'll have people listing for well above vendor cost. Again. And getting it. Again.

Sorry, but the world (both real and in-game) doesn't operate by your value judgements.

Technically it's all junk. It's all virtual monopoly money. You stop paying your sub and the stuff is worth exactly ZIP.

The market is yet another minigame within the greater context of the game itself.

Sorry, it isn't. The sooner you accept this, the less pain you'll feel.

You see? That's the beauty of a market. Simply because players set prices today doesn't mean that the prices have to be identical TOMORROW.

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it any more true.

Because they're avoiding certain problems created by such an auction house? And yes, that means introducing problems of their own.

Because everything doesn't need to be WoW?

Because the market the way it is works better within the context of THIS game?

That's because you're either lying about how much you've played or you've been terribly unobservant.

The devs have already made it clear that this style of "market PVP" is "working as intended" for the game.

Sorry, but someone paying me 100x (or more) for an item than I listed it for isn't an exploit.

People ALWAYS complain. The whole "You can please all of the people some of the time. You can please some of the people all of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time." thing.

We aren't flaming you. And we have been telling you why. You're WRONG.

Because it will be a short-term bump in the system until the market clears out.
Because it will simply lead to higher overall asking prices.

Please READ what has been posted to you instead of simply REACTING TO it.

See above please. It'll cause a large amount of temporary turmoil as the market adjusts. But it won't change higher pricing in the long run. Because it doesn't fix the problem of people paying too much because they're stupid and impatient.

Then you're not really willing to hear the answer.

No. You have an Economics 100 grasp of the broad concepts, the abstracts. That isn't the same thing as it's applied in the "real world".

Nice to be able to appoint yourself. Nobody to argue with you. Just that one nodding yes-man in the mirror.

And you're simply part of the problem.

You've BEEN told. READ it. Make SOME attempt at understanding it.

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Sweet Christ...can you POSSIBLY hit any MORE false memes?

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As in a couple hundred thousand regular, every day joes. And a couple million farming RMTers.

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Stop changing the goalpost child. You don't do it well at all.

Nobody's saying such a change would ruin the system for anyone.
We're saying it would change how the system operates, but wouldn't change your baseline ***** of "prices are too high".


So simply because you purport to represent some "silent masses", your opinion trumps ours?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

You've been told. Read. Expand your mind.

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Yup. Think "bid sniping". As I understand it, that has been a problem over on WoW. Haven't looked at the WoW market in a while, but I can't think that it has changed.

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PROVE IT.

Which is what already happens now. I ask you, how would this IMPROVE the market?

This might (I said MIGHT) work if the market was an order of magnitude larger than it is. Unfortunately, the market is smaller (and more volatile) than this.

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I think he's going for broke here....

ETA: I think I could actually hear the exasperation coming through my screen from your post, Hyper..

Don't worry about that rumbling thump followed by crackling sounds. That was just my forehead hitting the desk at supersonic speeds.

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If they did this they should also display the price the buyer paid and the price the seller put it up at so we can see who the stupid buyers who are paying 10 million for a luck charm listed for 1000. Then when you come complain we can demonstrate it's your own fault.

I think you need to explain exactly how you envisage the BuyitNAO button of yours would work as I've seen others hypothesise, but nothing from you on what the hell it is. I don't and haven't played WoW but it sounds like a completly different system and you'd have to bring it all over for it to work like it's been explained here.

Which is pretty clearly what HK wants, having mentioned how "everyone hates bidding".

Great. Now I've got the Rolling Stones stuck in my head.

Gah! What's Keith smoking NOW!

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