So, Cysts are 'underpowered'?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2010-03-06 07:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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*Nom nom*|
Originally Posted by stever
So I offer the following bind: /bind TAB "target_enemy_next$$target_custom_next enemy alive quantum$$target_custom_next enemy alive void$$target_custom_next enemy alive cyst" I run this on all my alts, Kheldian or not. The above bind lets TAB run as normal, untill you are looking at a spawn with one of those enemies in it. |
Useful. Shall use. Especially since I just went and rolled a Warshade yesterday.
Perhaps previous comments on the forum biased me a bit. Hell, I think anyone gets a bit hacked after four full teamwipes
*Goes Nicti hunting*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Here's the point of contention. We're pointing out that your team could have handled it better, evidenced by the fact that it has been done by others. You seem to think that it was impossible for you to succeed in the first place, and that's the fault of the game. We're not blaming your team. We're saying it is beatable, and not an unexpected or undue amount of challenge based on your team choices and settings.
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I was going to post but this pretty much covers everything I had in mind to say. I love them myself as they break up the mission and give you something new to react to . Lower levels they can be a pain and that may be the real sticking point of this discussion.
Edit: For the following rep comment
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| "I love them" doesn't make them suck less |
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/applaud |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
*Nom nom*
Useful. Shall use. Especially since I just went and rolled a Warshade yesterday. Perhaps previous comments on the forum biased me a bit. Hell, I think anyone gets a bit hacked after four full teamwipes *Goes Nicti hunting* |
My only problem with cysts is more related to how the current devs haven't gone back to fix the heavy-handed changes by the prior regime that don't necessarily fit the current day game.
Remember the portal nerf? The monkey nerf? They were both necessary but done differently. I don't like cysts because they're all risk and no (or insanely little) reward. Put the unbound nicti on the underling reward table (since that's probably the only workable solution that doesn't completely reverse the nerf) and I wouldn't have an issue. But as they stand now, just like the garbage spewed by summoning mobs now, they can give you debt but when you kill 'em, you get nothing. All risk, no reward.
Well, that plus I don't like how Kheldians are treated like a disease (once one "infects" your team, you're stuck with that infection even after the Kheld leaves the team, until you completely disband and reform).
@Remianen / @Remianen Too
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Yeah... I know what you mean. I hate it that summoned mobs don't give any XP. Seriously, if I'm going to risk my neck killing all of those Devouring Earth that were called by a Will of the Earth crystal for example, I want some friggin' XP.
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Originally Posted by RemianenI
My only problem with cysts is more related to how the current devs haven't gone back to fix the heavy-handed changes by the prior regime that don't necessarily fit the current day game.
Remember the portal nerf? The monkey nerf? They were both necessary but done differently. I don't like cysts because they're all risk and no (or insanely little) reward. Put the unbound nicti on the underling reward table (since that's probably the only workable solution that doesn't completely reverse the nerf) and I wouldn't have an issue. But as they stand now, just like the garbage spewed by summoning mobs now, they can give you debt but when you kill 'em, you get nothing. All risk, no reward. Well, that plus I don't like how Kheldians are treated like a disease (once one "infects" your team, you're stuck with that infection even after the Kheld leaves the team, until you completely disband and reform). |
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Actually I've been using a slightly different bind for ages now (I didn't invent it, I've read it in a guide to Khelds somewhere...):|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
*Nom nom*
Useful. Shall use. Especially since I just went and rolled a Warshade yesterday. Perhaps previous comments on the forum biased me a bit. Hell, I think anyone gets a bit hacked after four full teamwipes *Goes Nicti hunting* |
/bind BUTTON4 "follow$$camreset$$camdist 20"
/bind BUTTON5 "target_enemy_next$$target_custom_next enemy alive quantum$$target_custom_next enemy alive void$$target_custom_next enemy alive cyst$$target_custom_next enemy alive sapper"
It uses mouse buttons instead of TAB and F (naturally, would only work with a mouse that has 4th and 5th buttons, like this one I use or a cheaper analogue. Absolutely brilliant thing these two buttons, worth every penny, not just in games. ) and it targets sappers as well as cysts.
As for the original topic... Well, I've seen just one wipe like that and that was when cyst spawned right next to an AV (Captain Castillo, with smoke grenades and FF drone. Too bad they didn't change Confuse rules for buffers back then or it would be easy too, just confuse the drones, and you don't even need insps
)
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah... I know what you mean. I hate it that summoned mobs don't give any XP. Seriously, if I'm going to risk my neck killing all of those Devouring Earth that were called by a Will of the Earth crystal for example, I want some friggin' XP.
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I imagine everyone should know about the farming spawns, which is why they don't give direct xp themselves. You are getting the xp for them, however, in the xp for the foe that spawns them, whether it be Rikti Comm. Officers, Cysts, or DE.
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Then you shouldn't get debt from them either.
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Originally Posted by DarkEther
I imagine everyone should know about the farming spawns, which is why they don't give direct xp themselves. You are getting the xp for them, however, in the xp for the foe that spawns them, whether it be Rikti Comm. Officers, Cysts, or DE.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Then you shouldn't get debt from them either.
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You do get compensated for the creature, and the fact that you die from one of it's attack forms, which happens to be a "pet", does not mean you should not get debt - the creature defeated you, after all.
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Then the "pet" should give XP when I kill it.
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Originally Posted by DarkEther
You do get compensated for the creature, and the fact that you die from one of it's attack forms, which happens to be a "pet", does not mean you should not get debt - the creature defeated you, after all.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Then the "pet" should give XP when I kill it.
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Circular illogic. You get XP for the foe, not for a power. The "pets" are a power the foe uses. You'd no more get XP for "defeating" an oil slick by burning it off.
Again, power versus foe. The foe uses a power that makes the pet. XP for foe. No xp for pet/power. That's how the game works.
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Here's the thing, though. These "pets" are just as powerful as the actual minions, underlings, liuetenants, and bosses that they copy. In fact, when you target them, you'll even see the classification of full verbatum. For example, I don't actually see Rikti com officers rewarding more XP than other Rikti liuetenants. This means you're not actually being compensated. Ergo, the pets either should reward their own XP or they don't cause debt.
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Originally Posted by DarkEther
Circular illogic. You get XP for the foe, not for a power. The "pets" are a power the foe uses. You'd no more get XP for "defeating" an oil slick by burning it off.
Again, power versus foe. The foe uses a power that makes the pet. XP for foe. No xp for pet/power. That's how the game works. |
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They might not reward more than Rikti lts, and they spawn as lts (as far as placement, etc), but they have Minion stats otherwise. They reward more than a standard rikti minion.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Here's the thing, though. These "pets" are just as powerful as the actual minions, underlings, liuetenants, and bosses that they copy. In fact, when you target them, you'll even see the classification of full verbatum. For example, I don't actually see Rikti com officers rewarding more XP than other Rikti liuetenants. This means you're not actually being compensated. Ergo, the pets either should reward their own XP or they don't cause debt.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Actually you forgot about Kheld stink. Even if the team currently doesn't have a Kheldian on the team, as long as one person has teamed with a Kheldian without logging out, Nictus still spawn.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Well, if I may play devil's advocate for a sec, you kinda did ask for the change when you sent that invite. Any team in your position has three choices:
1) Keep at the current settings, and accept that they WILL get stomped hard when the Cyst shows up. 2) Drop the difficulty and hope a Cyst shows up for that one fight that's at the difficulty the team was looking for. 3) Don't invite the Squid. They just need to figure out which one is the least unappealing. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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This statement is incorrect. I've had cysts spawn solo for a level 6 PB as far back as Issue 6, well before the new difficulty sliders. Before you ask, I leave most of my characters on the lowest difficulty settings until the early 20s (at least).
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Another option is to stick with 7 members at most (and x7 at most), Cysts only spawn with 8 (or x8) IIRC.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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That's because they're lieutenants! Says so in the target box. And they give no more than the average Rikti lieutenant.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
They might not reward more than Rikti lts, and they spawn as lts (as far as placement, etc), but they have Minion stats otherwise. They reward more than a standard rikti minion.
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Just to chime in on the whole 'summon exp' thing, I agree that Cysts give a pitiful ammount of exp for what they throw out. I mean, simply going from the screenshot I posted; Thats a whole carpload of minions, LTs and Boss Nicti. They con that way, they hit that hard. Judging from that spawn, and that logic, the Crystal should have given us the exp of about three mobs total. Im damn sure it didnt.
If Cysts gave a better chunk of exp or the Nicti gave exp themselves, maybe it would be less of a percieved problem. I mean, maybe that would mean you could farm them...but they are a random spawn, and one that has the potential to facerape your team. Sounds like a better risk v reward to me.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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