Swap ammo way too expansive
By
Dispari,
Posted on: 2010-03-04 20:21 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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No it's not. You don't come out of the gate doing combos. You don't do combos regardless of what powers you take or use. You have to have at least three powers to do combos, and use them in order. You can't do your first combo until 6, same as Swap Ammo. |
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
I think Swap Ammo should be inherent to the power set. Not taking up a power selection at all. (I mean come on, even Dual Blades has combos as an Inherent ability.)
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In fact, doing combos affects your power choice order, your power selection process, and your power usage order. It affects your DPS and your normal attack behavior. I think it does a lot more and requires a lot more than Swap Ammo.Quote:
| Put Aim back in its place. Every other blaster set has Aim, regardless of the special set-defining powers the set has. |
Melee sets don't all have Build Up. They have Follow Up/Blinding Feint, Soul Drain, even Rage. I embrace the variance in these sets and all along was hoping that DP would have something different than a generic plastered Aim into the set, because ranged sets have ZERO variance. Either they have Aim or they don't (Dark Blast and Psi Blast for non-Blasters have no Aim). I was hoping for a ranged Follow Up. But I think the ability to give yourself a constant damage boost through fire damage is a very unique and viable alternative to Aim.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Swap Ammo is awesome!
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A low level power which cannot be slotted is glorious. It lets you put those valuable enhancement slots in other places. I honestly don't understand what the problem is with having an unslottable power when there's no way to usefully enhance that power.
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Originally Posted by GreenGiant
And you think it worths a power slot that is unlottable? the side effects are barely noticable and only your secondary damage is affected with no change it it's base value...that's a huge cost for the benefit.
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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
But personally, I wish the dmg type shift was more than just 30% if for purely concept reasons (my character(s) not shooting real incendiary/cryo rounds but solidified cold and fire formed into a handy bullet shape to be propelled at high velocity at its target).
I never thought it would have been so much a balance issue to be 50lethal/50other or even 30lethal/70other.
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I think you answered your own question? I found the things you don't seem to think useful 'incredibly' useful. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Holds are better than stuns because 1) the mezzed enemy does not move, 2) holds are more prevalent and more easily stackable and 3) they provide the ability to slot hold IO sets. 1) is a minor benefit since a single-target mez will not cause AoE scatter. While I haven't tested it personally, the description on the enhancement screen implies that you can slot Hold IO sets in it regardless of whether you have Swap Ammo. If true, then 3) doesn't apply since you don't need to take Swap Ammo to get the benefit. That leaves 2). There's a benefit, no doubt, but is this what you'd call "incredibly" useful?
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Especially being able to stack holds. With another hold power, typically epic pools, you can quite easily hold a boss. As a blaster even. That leaves me pretty happy. Assuming your team had some idea of one another you could also quickly hold a boss with the controller on your team, or the other umpteenth billion DP user you encounter.
Im read this somewhere else but can't remember where but it made awhole lot of sense.
Having swap ammo as a power pick is like making fire pick its DOTs as a power, or energys KB as a power, or rads minus def as a power. It seems like **** to me and people are eating said **** cause of the flash. Oh well.
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Fire, Energy, and Rad have one secondary effect. Dual Pistols has DEF and KB even without Swap Ammo. You take Swap Ammo to have access to FOUR (five or six depending on how you count lethal and cryo) secondary effects. Just like you take Aim to have more damage/accuracy. You still have a secondary effect without Swap Ammo. Wanting Swap Ammo free makes about as much sense to me as wanting Aim to be an inherent.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Im read this somewhere else but can't remember where but it made awhole lot of sense.
Having swap ammo as a power pick is like making fire pick its DOTs as a power, or energys KB as a power, or rads minus def as a power. It seems like **** to me and people are eating said **** cause of the flash. Oh well. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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*shrug* Then don't choose Swap Ammo if you think it's so crap. No one's forcing you to use it, after all.
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On a related note: bemoaning that Swap Ammo can't be slotted for use as a set mule seems odd since i usually skip one or two powers in every set, or take powers that can't take sets, so not only do i have no idea what sets Swap Ammo would take, i have no idea why every power in Dual Pistols should be slottable as a set mule any more than powers like Conserve Power, which are already in other powersets. Or Hasten, what sets are usually put into Hasten?|
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
*shrug* Then don't choose Swap Ammo if you think it's so crap. No one's forcing you to use it, after all.
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Of course there are many other powers like that. By the OP's reasoning the Devs should make it so they all can take sets, so which sets would those be?
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I will say that there are plenty of Power Sets that have individual Powers that do not take IO sets. Swap Ammo is not unique in that, and it does not gimp the set in that respect.
I think the complaints that the power could not be slotted at all is a valid one, though. While there is nothing obvious that it could be slotted for at the moment, there were plenty of suggestions, including just giving the Auto power an innate To Hit bonus that could then be slotted. That would at least allow an option for the one slot you get with the Power.
The devs seem to have decided that this is not an option even worth considering, however. Or at the very least, their silence appears to make such a statement.
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Assault Rifle does not have Aim. If Dark Blast is proliferated to Blasters, it is at least possible that it will not have Aim either. (Psychic Blast for Defenders does not have Aim, but it does for Blasters, so for Dark it could go either way) |
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
Every other blaster set has Aim, regardless of the special set-defining powers the set has.
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As for Swap Ammo replacing Aim, I don't believe that is the purpose of Swap Ammo, although it should be noted that as well as the potential to avoid the resistance of some foes, the Incendiary Ammo also does additional DoT damage. Thus if you use Swap Ammo ONLY for Incendiary rounds, you will get a constant bonus, not just the 10 second bonus of Aim.
However, the power of Swap Ammo is rather its flexibility, the ability to change the characteristics of the attacks to suit your foes. There is no other Set in the game that does Lethal, Fire, Ice AND Toxic damage. Period. There is also no other Set in the game that lets you choose your Secondary effect. This flexibility is at the cost of the strength of those effects.
If you want a Lethal set with Aim, take Archery. If you want to do more Fire damage, take Fire Blast. If you want to freeze foes better, take Ice Blast. You shouldn't expect Dual Pistols to be as good as all three of those combined.
I like swap Ammo. Particularly for Corrupters and Defenders.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Ironically, I found that the KB in the lethal rounds was the most effective mitigation while solo because when it works it works.
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As it was 2xp weekend AND a new power set, there were tons of teams full of pistols. While most I teamed with had it set to fire the majority of the time. I tended to stick with original flavor bullets (I have a DP/Ice Cor). The knockback is a great tool when you have little other ways to mitigate the incoming damage. (wish I could ice shield myself
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Swap Ammo is an amazing power. I think that's fairly obvious to anyone who has played the set with it longer than 5 minutes. One major concern is that it takes the place of Aim. There have been people in this thread going so far as to compare the utility of Swap Ammo versus Aim.
I think Swap Ammo should be inherent to the power set. Not taking up a power selection at all. (I mean come on, even Dual Blades has combos as an Inherent ability.) Put Aim back in its place. Every other blaster set has Aim, regardless of the special set-defining powers the set has. With Swap Ammo as an Inherent ability, and with Aim available as a power choice, this would go a long way towards quieting some of the naysayers who say DP is gimped.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, can't you slot enhancements in all the shooting powers that enhance the abilities Swap Ammo gives you? This makes the slotting even *more* versatile, since you can bump up the added effect each power has separately.