ELM/SD brute is much weaker than ELM/SD scrapper (which means it's still pretty damn good) as brutes start with lower base damage, lower damage mods yet still have the same pet caps - this means Lightning Rod and Shield Charge will deal much less damage.
On the other hand, Footstomp uses the normal 850% damage cap and recharges much faster, you get a good ST attack with KO Blow, and Rage also boosts your PPP. Footstomp also has a 15' radius, the bigger radius in LR doesn't make so much of a difference (as compared to FM with FSC being only 10').
I'd go with SS/SD. Rolling an ELM/SD brute is a serious mistake if performance is the goal, in my opinion, with GR getting closer ; the scrapper version is much better.
Scrapper ElM/SD is way better than brute ElM/SD. Scrapper anything/SD is way better than brute anything/SD. The reason for that is the way damage bonuses work; they increase the base damage by a certain percent, and since scrappers have base damage that is significantly higher than brute base damage, they get more out of AAO.
Specifically, brutes get to scrapper level damage (considering equivalent slotting) by having fury add for example 80% or more of their base damage to their attacks. And then AAO adds another 50% on top of that - 50% of for example 100 (fictional scrapper base damage) is more than 50% of for example 50 (fictional brute base damage). So /SD scrappers do significantly more damage than /SD brutes.
There is an additional problem, and that's the way SC and LR are handled. They summon pseudopets that do the damage instead of the toon, and pseudopets are capped at a max of 400% damage. A scrapper will have for example +100% from slotting, +60% from AAO and +80% from BU, which added to the base damage of 100% equals 340%. No frets, LR/SC does a lot of damage. But our brute gets +100% from slotting, +60% from AAO, +80% from BU and +80% from fury which added to the base of 100% equals 420%, but the pseudopet is capped at 400% and a portion of damage is wasted. So not only do scrapper LR and SC do more damage because of the higher base values, but the brute versions of those attacks can't do the full damage that they numerically should.
I don't play /SD brutes because of that. If you want to play one, I suggest a SS/SD over LR/SD, you'll have a more balanced play experience (decent ST damage) and you won't be wasting as much damage on the big AoE hitters (FS, being performed by a brute and not by a pseudopet has a sufficiently high max damage cap so as to not waste any).
Quote:
Don't the Brute and Scrapper versions of SC summon the same pseudopet? (And do the same amount of base damage?) Or is the info on City of Data out-of-date/incorrect?
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Originally Posted by Exxar
So not only do scrapper LR and SC do more damage because of the higher base values, but the brute versions of those attacks can't do the full damage that they numerically should.
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Hazel Black - Mind/Psi D
Stephanie Winters - Nightwidow
Jacqui Frost - Cold/Ice D
Jacqui Embers - Fire/Kin C
Simone Templar - Fire/MM B
Mallory Woods - Kin/Rad D
Sanguine Melody - Grav/Sonic C
Fumina Hara - Plant/Storm C
Nutmeg - Warshade
Lauren Wu - SS/WP B
Quote:
The cap for damage for these pets is substantially lower for brutes than it is for scrappers. Nihili already summed up my thoughts on which combo you should roll. Besides, SS isn't for scrappers just yet, so make a monster brute and start slaying!
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Originally Posted by Mezzosoprano
Don't the Brute and Scrapper versions of SC summon the same pseudopet? (And do the same amount of base damage?) Or is the info on City of Data out-of-date/incorrect?
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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
SS/SD is an absolute beast, so go for it.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
City of Data is unfortunately out of date (check out Electric Armour, Conserve Power is still listed). Brutes, Scrappers and Tanks all have their own versions now. I believe Brutes has the lowest base damage as the patch notes for the change were something like "Tanks Shield Charge : Raised the damage. Scrappers Shield charge : Significantly raised the damage".|
Originally Posted by Mezzosoprano
Don't the Brute and Scrapper versions of SC summon the same pseudopet? (And do the same amount of base damage?) Or is the info on City of Data out-of-date/incorrect?
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So I think Brutes kept the old version, Tanks got a slightly boosted clone and scrappers got a significantly boosted clone.
Not 100% on the Tank / Brute, as they technically should have kept the same versions (since their base damage is the same) but Scrappers certainly did get a new, higher damage version.
Tankers actually start with slightly higher base damage (0.8, as opposed to 0.75 for Brutes).
Quote:
Ah, that'd explain it so.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Tankers actually start with slightly higher base damage (0.8, as opposed to 0.75 for Brutes).
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I have both -- As the others have stated, as much as I love my electric ... the scrapper version is better >_> .... SS however is awesome, watch your end and your home free.
As for that build, I realize you just put them together -- I don't suggest mace mastery, I like more rech, and that you will have a hard time maintaining end if you aren't careful
Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators
Well, that was pretty unanimous. Same consensus over at the scrapper boards too. Thanks for all the replies; I made a SS/SD, just picked up Rage, and he's pretty kick a** already. Can't wait for FS.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I have a elec/sd brute that is insanely quick for tix farms(map tix cap(1500) in 9 min), just depends on what you are trying to do with the toon. The longer wait for rech on the BU/LR/SC combo can be a lil anoying cuz your trying to keep enemies off there toes, but getting it around 27/28 sec without purps is decent. Im currently playing a SS/SD brute, i have many SS brutes. SS is awesome and coupled with the occational SC every 23-28 sec w/hasten up is very nice. i have the +rech proc in Footstomp. That hits a lot when surrounded by mobs cause it has a chance to hit on every enemy. Here's a build i made for my SS/SD, lemme know what you guys think. ps, i dont use purps cuz of the expense but i do have 2 hami's that help keep the active defense going.
Code:
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Quote:
The damage cap for both versions are the same. The scrapper version has a higher base damage so at the cap the scrapper version will do more dmg. |
Originally Posted by magikwand
The cap for damage for these pets is substantially lower for brutes than it is for scrappers. Nihili already summed up my thoughts on which combo you should roll. Besides, SS isn't for scrappers just yet, so make a monster brute and start slaying!
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I don't know why everyone is saying to roll a scrapper. The OP didnt ask if he should roll a scrapper or a brute he asked to decide between different brutes. SS/SD is a very end intensive build and will have problems with just IOs, but with enough recharge and epic AoE will be an AoE monster.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Just in light of the BotZ changes, this build is just shy of the cap on AoE defence but everything else should still be sweet. I also added in Dark Oblit and Gloom for some more AoE and ST since you won't really be needing any more +ToHit with Focused Accuracy and it's *another* toggle. 
Hope you like it.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Jab -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg(11), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(29), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 2: Haymaker -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(13), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 6: True Grit -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(7)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Dam%(40)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(15), HO:Membr(15)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(37)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(42), Numna-Heal(43), Mrcl-Heal(48), RgnTis-Regen+(50)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(48), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(31), Aegis-ResDam(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Gloom -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Ragnrk-Knock%(46)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 0: Ninja Run
@Fail (Used to be @Tux) and @Tuxedo Infinitus Defiant/Freedom/Champion
Favourite Toons: Prosper [Ill/Rad] Controller :: Infinitus [Fire/Elec] Blaster :: Pocket Dynamo [Fire/Shield] Scr :: Fast [Cold/Sonic] Def ::
Inspire [Plant/Storm] Controller :: Quality - SS/Fire Brute :: Double Down [DP/Kin] Corr :: Pwnz [Fire/Cold] Corr :: Fail [Fire/Son] Corr
Well, not totally new. I rolled up an EM/ELA brute way back when CoV launched, but I mostly play blue-side and have ignored all my vils these many years. With GR coming, I thought I'd roll up a brute (or two) to bring over to the light.
Anyway, I'm looking for some serious AoE goodness running +2(ish)X8 missions so was thinking SS or ELM paired with Shields. I play each of these sets separately, but not as a combo (SD/Axe, WP/SS, ELA/ELM tanks; DM/SD, ELM/SR scrappers). I know the ELM/SD scrapper combo is seriously uber; how does the brute version compare? Does the faster recharging FS & better ST damage tip the scale to SS/SD? Should I just roll both? Opinions?
I cobbled together a couple of quick builds, just to get an idea of what they'd both look like. Any critiques would also be appreciated; I'm sure they can use a lot of tuning.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee