City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Best AoE power

BrandX

By BrandX,
Posted on: 2010-03-01 09:03 in Scrappers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
FSC wins by a mile.
Actually, it doesn't. That was kind of the point. When you begin factoring in recharge (which you kind of have to because I've yet to meet anyone with a decent build that doesn't slot their AoEs for recharge at least a little), FSC begins losing ground pretty quickly, to such an extent that the fact that SC can hit 16 targets with very little difficulty whereas FSC can take time to bring enemies in that close begins to have a substantive effect on the numbers.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
Actually, it doesn't. That was kind of the point. When you begin factoring in recharge (which you kind of have to because I've yet to meet anyone with a decent build that doesn't slot their AoEs for recharge at least a little), FSC begins losing ground pretty quickly, to such an extent that the fact that SC can hit 16 targets with very little difficulty whereas FSC can take time to bring enemies in that close begins to have a substantive effect on the numbers.
Uhm....

By your numbers, FSC is 20 percent or more better.

But, Ok!

SC is Teh Uber. I don't know WHAT I was thinkin'.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Uhm....

By your numbers, FSC is 20 percent or more better.

But, Ok!

SC is Teh Uber. I don't know WHAT I was thinkin'.
20% is not "a mile". When you consider that SC has a 400% larger area of effect. FSC has to put forth some amount of work to get 10 targets into its area of effect. Shield Charge just hits everything. FSC is probably better overall, but in top end AoE scenarios where 3 seconds of herding is actually an issue you have to address, Shield Charge closes the gap relatively easily.

AoE isn't just about number of targets and damage. Area of effect and ease of target acquisition matter too (which is why I value spherical AoEs a good deal above radial AoEs).

 

Posted

Will no one put in a good word for Quills? I love it on my spines/wp scrapper. Suits my playstyle of being able to just stand there and watch everything die around me without distracting me with a need to press keys or anything.

Because of Quills, my WP scrapper is a capable tank. I slotted it a bit oddly as well: one acc/dam Hami-O, one Multistrike acc/dam, and four Pacing of the Turtles with a bit more damage, accuracy, endurance, and the proc for Chance of Recharge Slow. I have that inexpensive proc throughout my spines build, and in Caltrops too.

They really need to port that set to tankers.


<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
No, Shield Charge does. You're thinking of Lightning Rod, which has multiple concentric AoEs that each deal a portion of the power's damage. This is one of the reasons why Shield Charge is so much better than Lightning Rod.
Hmm, I thought both powers were identical

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Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
Btw, nice job -repping me so much with your farmed up rep. I might not have so much to say about you if you weren't outright wrong so often, though it's nice to know that you care enough about what I say to try to peel off by green dots.
I don't know what you're talking about, rep is just meaningless green squares on a message board for me, I just farmed it up for teh luls. I'm sorry it's such a serious business for you.

Funny I'm outright wrong so often, as we most of the times agree on many things (examples being that DP underperforms on IO'd builds and that FSC > S-Charge)

Are you still mad that I'm a much better player than you? aww don't be, it's just a game!

 

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Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
Funny I'm outright wrong so often, as we most of the times agree on many things (examples being that DP underperforms on IO'd builds and that FSC > S-Charge)
Except that we don't agree on both of those. DP only underperforms with qualifiers, nor does FSC beat out Shield Charge except under incredibly limited viewpoints

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Are you still mad that I'm a much better player than you? aww don't be, it's just a game!
I keep forgetting... It takes so much skill to take on AVs with an unkillable perma-tank and a power that automatically floors their regen! Gah! So much skill involved!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
I keep forgetting... It takes so much skill to take on AVs with an unkillable perma-tank and a power that automatically floors their regen! Gah! So much skill involved!
Aww, you are so mad that you apparently forgot to make sense too? hehehe

"[Forum Scrappers]You were kicked from channel 'Forum Scrappers' by @Umbral Fist"

Hahaha, have fun running your dead, inactive, failure of a channel

(And I suggest we both stop polluting this thread, as I don't think it's fair to keep humilliating you in public, nor it's anyone else's business. If you got beef with me, do it through PMs or ingame)

 

Posted

OP didnt say DPS power, so I nominate Dark Regeneration ~.~

 

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people seem to be forgetting the mitgating factors of shield charge that FSC lacks... namely, knockdown on anything that lived and hitting more targets thus leaving fewer people to hit on you. like i said, more dps doesn't mean better it just means more dps. personally, i'd rather wipe out a whole mob with SC and then fireball then move on than sit there and do multiple FSCs because it is better DPS.

 

Posted

Best I've tried so far is Spin. Stupidly low recharge and you get it at level 6. The one AOE you can end up using over and over again, even with SOs. Combine with a Damage Aura and you're sorted for AOE damage.

FSC is a great AOE too but the recharge is a little too long to be used multiple times on the same spawn (if FSC is recharged at the same spawn you're doing it wrong somewhere). Mind you with FSC you can combine it with Shields...

"Best" is such a loose and argumentative term. I'd go with Spin for an SOed character though. Shield Charge is amazing but even when you do wipe Spawn #1 out with it you've then got to wait a bit for it to come back for Spawn #2. Spin should be back in the time it takes you to toddle from the corpses of #1 to #2 (it recharges in 9.6 seconds unslotted).

I wonder how crappy Claws/Shields looked to the devs animation-wise, it'd be a godly combo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
Will no one put in a good word for Quills?
Not sure why everyone is dismissing damage auras. I guess the OP was in reference to burst damage?

When measured over time, damage auras will out damage everything else. But at that point, Quills is at the bottom of list. Blazing Aura would be first with Death Shroud and Lightning Field tied for 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
Not sure why everyone is dismissing damage auras. I guess the OP was in reference to burst damage?

When measured over time, damage auras will out damage everything else. But at that point, Quills is at the bottom of list. Blazing Aura would be first with Death Shroud and Lightning Field tied for 2nd.
Not necessarily, quills crits - the armor auras do not. Plus, the skewering sound of quills is so much fun. Some people hate it, but I can't get enough of that screechy sound and stuff being impaled by random bits of flotsam.

There's too much number crunching in this thread. I guess that's to be expected in the scrapper forum, but the best AoE power does not necessarily mean "does 0.983 more dps/second." AAO is an AoE, as is Soul Drain, Dark Regen, etc.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinaki View Post
Not necessarily, quills crits - the armor auras do not.
Irrelevant. Even with crits, Quills can not keep up with the other damage auras when measured over time.

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Posted

I mentioned Damage Auras briefly in conjunction with Spin but that was it. I suppose Damage Auras aren't very exciting really. They are effective over time, but it's easy to forget how it all mounts up with them.

Best, as this thread illustrates, is a horribly subjective term. Everyone will have a favourite for whatever reasons (flashiness, animation, huge orange numbers, back up quickly, secondary effecrs, always running etc).

Soul Drain is an awesome AOE for it's "secondary" effect

 

Posted

Although it does not matter anymore...I was looking for the most efficient, numbers-wise, click attack AoE from the primary scrapper powersets.

 

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Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
Although it does not matter anymore...I was looking for the most efficient, numbers-wise, click attack AoE from the primary scrapper powersets.
Spin so. It's got higher damage & lower recharge than Spine Burst and half the recharge time of FSC.

 

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Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
"[Forum Scrappers]You were kicked from channel 'Forum Scrappers' by @Umbral Fist"

Hahaha, have fun running your dead, inactive, failure of a channel
Its kinda funny how much of an *** Umbral is. I joined that channel, the first day on he kicked off like 3 peeps for talkin bout stuff he didnt want to talk about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Yeah, I like Blasters too.

 

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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey View Post
Did you hear the part where I said it did 50% more damage then headsplitter in a 25ft radius?
Hmm, I just had a mental image of Self Destruction followed up by Rise of the Phoenix. That might actually get me to make a fire scrapper.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
20% is not "a mile".
You're joking now, right?

OK, many folks poo poo MA and the upcoming DP sets for poor damage.

How far below the curve are those sets on a decent attack chain?

And note that the 20 percent disparity is being kind: At maximal recharge the difference is 23 percent, and it ranges to well above 30 percent with more reasonable numbers.

FSC wins by a mile. You worked it out yourself, I have no idea why you're clinging to this.



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When you consider that SC has a 400% larger area of effect.
Yes, the big AOE is teh nice, there is no doubt.


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FSC has to put forth some amount of work to get 10 targets into its area of effect. Shield Charge just hits everything.
True, but it can often be the case (especially on teams) where there aren't enough baddies to saturate SC, especially when there are competing AOE's. In my experience the bigger area isn't that big of a factor, YMMV.


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FSC is probably better overall, but in top end AoE scenarios where 3 seconds of herding is actually an issue you have to address, Shield Charge closes the gap relatively easily.
...okay.


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AoE isn't just about number of targets and damage. Area of effect and ease of target acquisition matter too (which is why I value spherical AoEs a good deal above radial AoEs).
So very true!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax View Post
Best I've tried so far is Spin. Stupidly low recharge and you get it at level 6. The one AOE you can end up using over and over again, even with SOs. Combine with a Damage Aura and you're sorted for AOE damage.

Yup. Spin is Win.



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FSC is a great AOE too but the recharge is a little too long to be used multiple times on the same spawn (if FSC is recharged at the same spawn you're doing it wrong somewhere).
With enough recharge you can get it down to less than six seconds. But then, you have issues with firing it on only the leftovers, which kills the output.



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Mind you with FSC you can combine it with Shields...
Shh! Don't tell all the elec/sd guys about this.



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"Best" is such a loose and argumentative term. I'd go with Spin for an SOed character though. Shield Charge is amazing but even when you do wipe Spawn #1 out with it you've then got to wait a bit for it to come back for Spawn #2. Spin should be back in the time it takes you to toddle from the corpses of #1 to #2 (it recharges in 9.6 seconds unslotted).

I wonder how crappy Claws/Shields looked to the devs animation-wise, it'd be a godly combo.
I'm sure it was AAO, not animations.

Spin, Shockwave, Eviscerate, Focus, Shield Charge, all topped up with AAO?

(shudder) It'd be a monster.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
Even with crits, Quills can not keep up with the other damage auras when measured over time.
On the other hand, Quills can be combined with most other secondaries, including easier to optimize ones like Reflexes, WP, and Invulnerability. For me, this is a strong point in its favor; because I like things to "just work" and not require constant tending. You aren't going to get that kind of performance out of Fire or Dark Armor, not without spending a whole lot more than you'd spend on a WP or SR.


<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

There is no "best" AoE. It really depends on the situation, though I think FSC, Spin, Soul Drain, and Shield charge are all pretty close to each other at the top.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
On the other hand, Quills can be combined with most other secondaries, including easier to optimize ones like Reflexes, WP, and Invulnerability. For me, this is a strong point in its favor; because I like things to "just work" and not require constant tending. You aren't going to get that kind of performance out of Fire or Dark Armor, not without spending a whole lot more than you'd spend on a WP or SR.
Which is an entirely different discussion. As others pointed out, declaring a 'best' AoE is highly subjective. The questions was specific to AoEs, not the overall survivability of the set.

In my hands, any scenario that allows for the best utilization of AoEs, Dark Armor is considerably more survivable than Will Power, Invulnerability, or Super Reflexes. Never mind that I can combine Quills and Death Shroud on a Spines/DA build.

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