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Powerset Proliferation

ArchLight

By ArchLight,
Posted on: 2010-02-24 08:04 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Placate is not a stalker exclusive effect - it exists as an IO proc in the purple sleep set, and in a couple of different temp powers. It's not exactly common, but the precedent is there. It might not serve the core scrapper purpose of doing damage, but not every power is required to. It's also thematic as heck. Why should only evil ninjas be able to vanish in a cloud of smoke? Lastly, as it stands, it'd be a skippable power - possibly useful, but not mandatory - and I think it's important to leave some powers which can be skipped if you want. Basically, I don't think there's any real reason it *can't* be there, so I wouldn't mess with it.
Smoke Flash isn't even a Placate. Had it on my DM/Nin stalker, though it was placate, turns out to just be an aggro debuff. Scrappers can keep it, and skip it too. I guess maybe there are situations where you could find it useful. Me, if I'm in over my head I just Flee. I don't spend a power pick on getting something I can accomplish just by sprinting away from a bad situation.

Hide could just be moved down a few notches (1st power becomes the melee defense toggle) and turned into a clone of Cloaking Device instead of Hide. Scrappers don't need that HUGE AoE defense bonus that suppresses in combat--it's there so stalkers don't get dinked out of hide by splash damage and lose their crit. Scrappers don't need the complete invisibility from Hide, either.

Caltrops, yeah. Weapons pool had all the ninja stuff in it already. Smoke Grenade? Not like they're all that super great, but it's replacing a power that isn't all that super great besides for exploiting dumb mob AI Or could always rip off one of the passives people say are skippable, like take Resilience and rename it Esoteric Training or something. Heh. You not gonna disorient meh, Vahzilok Eidolon! And then it becomes a lowbie power to mule a steadfast onto, eh? See what I did there

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
What can I say, I would swear Brutes would get way too much healing out of Regeneration because of their higher HP, but Castle said, "No, it's not the healing powers, it's Quick Recovery." What do I know? [shrug]
Actually, I see his point on that one. Yes, Regen on brutes would heal insanely fast and be nearly indestructible. But, Quick Recovery in a set with only ONE toggle? That would guarantee a brute would never, ever slow down at all. Part of the balance point of Fury is that it is nearly impossible without IOs to keep going indefinitely. You WILL run out of endurance sooner or later. Brute Regen would completely screw that balance point up by being nearly unkillable due to stupid high passive regen levels combined with 3 click healing powers,and it would also be able to sustain fury indefinitely as long as there are mobs to fight.

"But Willpower gets Quick Recovery!" (figured I'd reply to this now, since someone is bound to bring it up)

True, Willpower does get Quick Recovery. But Willpower also has 4 toggles within the set to run, which eats into the extra recovery from QR. It is common for Regen scrappers to not even bother slotting Integration for end reduction, and they STILL end up with an endurance surplus. That's because they only have the 1 toggle to run. Add in Tough and Weave, Regen has 3 toggles to run, while Willpower has 6. That's why it's not so gamebreaking for brutes to have QR in WP, but it would be to have Regen with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

My wish list:

Scrapper: Ice armor, ninjutsu.

Brute: Broadsword/katana, ninjutsu, regen.

Stalker: Battle Axe. "Executioner's AXE!!" <HACK>

Controllers: Traps ( Wormhole + Tripmines = BOOM! )

Dominators: Illusion, Dark Assault

Blasters: Dark Assault, a somewhat modded Martial Arts/Superstrength for a secondary

Tanks/Defenders: Don't care

Corruptors: Psychic Blast

Masterminds: Sonic, Rad

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

Ice Armor for Scraps and Brutes
Katana and BS for Brutes
Scrapper/Tanker APPs for all Melee ATs

 

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List of sets each AT doesn't have yet (correct me if I missed any):

Blaster:
Dark Blast

Controller:
Dark Miasma
Pain Domination
Poison
Traps

Defender:
Fire Blast
Pain Domination
Poison
Thermal Radiation

Scrapper:
Battle Axe
Energy Aura
Energy Melee
Ice Armor
Ice Melee
Ninjitsu
Stone Armor
Stone Melee
Super Strength
War Mace

Tanker:
Broadsword
Claws
Energy Aura
Katana
Martial Arts
Ninjitsu
Regeneration
Spines
Super Reflexes

Brute:
Broadsword
Ice Armor
Ice Melee
Katana
Martial Arts
Ninjitsu
Regeneration
Spines

Corruptor:
Empathy
Force Field
Poison
Psychic Blast

Dominator:
Illusion Control

Mastermind:
Cold Domination
Empathy
Kinetics
Radiation Emission
Sonic Resonance

Stalker:
Battle Axe
Fire Aura
Fire Melee
Ice Armor
Ice Melee
Invulnerability
Shield Defense
Stone Armor
Stone Melee
Super Strength
War Mace

My wishes:
Blaster - Dark Blast, Dark Manip*
Controller - Traps
Defender - Fire Blast, Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Battle Axe, War Mace, Ninjitsu
Tanker - Broadsword, Katana
Brute - Broadsword, Katana
Corruptor - Psychic Blast, Force Field
Dominator - Illusion Control, Dark Assault*
Mastermind - Cold Domination
Stalker - Fire Melee, Fire Armor, Shield Defense

* = Would be a newly comprised set made up of existing stuff.

Stuff I doubt will happen unless it's rebalanced for the AT getting it and possibly ATs that already have it:
Scrapper - Super Strength
Tanker/Brute - Regeneration
Mastermind - Kinetics

Stuff that just feels too far out of theme to work:
Tanker - Ninjitsu
Stalker - Stone Armor

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Or, you can check your list against the two other yet-to-be-proliferated lists in this same thread.
Bah, who has time to read threads they post in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Please tell me you're kidding about this, Zombie Man.

You DO realize they're the exact same set, don't you?

Katana and Ninja Blade are absolutely identical except Ninja Blade loses Lotus Drops to fit the Assassin Strike in. Calling the Wolf (the taunt) is replaced with Placate (the placate). Other than that they are functionally identical.
I can guarantee you that they were only included as a matter of completeness. Also note that his list was not a wishlist, but was a list of ALL sets that a given AT does not have access to, but could.

Sooooo, unless Stalkers have a powerset named "Katana" then, technically... VERY technically, it can be proliferated.


 

Posted

*krak-OOM!* (Name that power!)

Stone Melee on an archetype that doesn't have either no damage and a team role that is both impossible and completely Whappen-incompatible or no damage when played by someone not prescient.
...
What?
That's Tankers and Brutes, folks. Could you at least end on a positive note?
*ahem*
Scrappers, o'course, but how about Assassin's Stone Spears? Anyo-
*is defeated by some surprise stalagmites*

Meben, 38 Kat/SR NPK Stalker (Defiant)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meben View Post
but how about Assassin's Stone Spears? Anyo-
*is defeated by some surprise stalagmites*
Actually, that'd be awesome; a massive spike suddenly emerging from the ground beneath your unsuspecting victim

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Bah, who has time to read threads they post in?
Heehee. You forgot Tanker Energy Aura, Claws and Super Reflexes. And unlike me, put Empathy on the villain side and Pain Domination on the hero side. Actually, while the devs have been pretty clear about never giving Empathy to villains and vice versa, I think would would be cool if Preatorians got access to BOTH sets. Not holding my breath for that at release, though.

I also included Manipulation and Assault, since the devs seem to consider that part of Proliferation, even though technically there should be no place those sets can be Proliferated. They consider Mastermind Primaries to NOT be part of Proliferation. I'm guessing that's because the existing Manipulation and Assault sets could be assembled from existing powers. (Although for Mental Manipulation that was not entirely true)

I'm guessing there will be some "outside the concept" Sets that won't be Proliferated, like Ninjitsu for Tankers and Stone Armor for Stalkers. Empathy and Pain Domination would fit in that category as well. I'd like to see all Sets available to AT LEAST two ATs, though, if not a clear majority of them.

 

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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
Heehee. You forgot Tanker Energy Aura, Claws and Super Reflexes.
Did not!

*waves shiny keys to distract from the "edited as of today" note at the bottom of the post*

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

i think we should stop worrying about what sets would be good or bad and just let the players make a gimp set if they want. if it is ranged blast, give it to everyone with ranged blasts. if it is melee or an armor set, give it to everyone with melee and an armor set. just because you can't see it fit thematically doesn't mean someone who is more creative than you can't make it and enjoy it. stop pushing your RP on me and let me have my ss/stone stalker.

 

Posted

For myself I would like to see.

Psi for Corruptors leads the way and is far out in front of all requests. My PSI/KIN Corruptor has been a waiting concept since COV beta when I learned she could not be.
FF for Corruptors
Illusion for Dominators
Fire for Defenders and Thermal.


Others I would like to see but do not have concepts ready to play.
Spines for Brutes.
Dark for Blasters.



While its not a proliferation Dark as a Control set for Dominators and Controllers. Dark for other AT offers so much control already it seems a shame it has not been done yet.

Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM

Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboBug View Post
i think we should stop worrying about what sets would be good or bad and just let the players make a gimp set if they want. if it is ranged blast, give it to everyone with ranged blasts. if it is melee or an armor set, give it to everyone with melee and an armor set. just because you can't see it fit thematically doesn't mean someone who is more creative than you can't make it and enjoy it. stop pushing your RP on me and let me have my ss/stone stalker.
The balance to players being able to make a gimp toon, is the possibility of making a completely overpowered toon. As much as I would love a Bots/Kin, I will be the first to admit I dont think the devs should do it. Say hello to my cracked out, dmg capped friends...