Im such a Traitor!

I just went and re-made my Axe/SD brute into a SD/Axe Tanker, because I dont like having to chase down a Fury Bar, or a Blue Endurance bar either.After 24 levels of that on a Brute, I got tired of it.

I guess im a stickler for being able to have constant, none random-ish damage on my Builds.Consistancy is key, as many say.

I have some questions reguarding Tankers, even though I have a couple, I dont tend to team with them, because everyone hates a resistance Tank.(Those people can take a flying leap!)

Iv always thought a Tankers damage was pretty solid, and im curious about something, I teamed with my new SD/Axe Tanker last night when I remade him, with a DB/Dark Scrapper.

His attacks recharged about as fast as mine, and I hit harder then he did with my Axe.I did take into account that his Dual Blades do DoT, but its not hard to watch 2-3 numbers come up and be able to add them rather quickly.

Iv also watched a Mace/WP Tanker hit a few things, even at lower levels, he did good damage like my Axe did, and still did more damage then my Scrapper Companion.When the Scrapper Crit, he would out damage us, but those where few and far between for the most part.

So I guess what im leading upto, is, Did they up Tanker Damage recently?Or did they upgrade the Axe and Mace sets for Tankers?

I seem to be doing rather decent, and tollerable damage with Axe.

Im making this character out of a Technological Theme, and im still going to quest for a Ritki Axe.

I dinged level 20 before I logged off last night on this Tanker, which is Typical when I play Tankers of any type.I level them fast.

The lack of a AoE, and Resistance Scale does urk me a bit, and this Tanker feels a little more solid then a Brute, but still feels very Fragile as well.

Iv noticed while playing my brute version, that Endurance was a issue, and it still is on the Tank as well, but Energy will easly fit into my Theme, and Energy Disscount will help alot im sure.

So does anyone know if Tankers got a recent upgrade?I havent been paying much attention because im busy building functional, themed Defenders as of late.

At low levels, the damage scales for the various ATs haven't yet diverged. While later on a scrapper will be doing 40% more damage than a tanker with an equivalent attack, at low levels, they will do about the same, so this is part of it.

The other part is that dual blades attacks are for the most part of the faster, lighter variety. Mace and axe's first three attacks have recharges of 4s, 8s, and 10s, compared to dual blades' 3s, 5s, 6s. I don't know what you observed (perhaps end problems kept the scrapper from firing attacks as fast as he should have, or maybe you had more recharge slotted than him, or maybe his connection/comp was just laggy), but in general, your attacks were hitting harder because his (should have been) recharging faster.

At higher levels that won't always hold true. Early on, tanks and scrappers share the default damage modifier of 1.0, but by the early 20s, they've settled into their final values of 0.8 and 1.125, respectively. Comparing scrapper dual blades to tanker battle axe at that point, the corresponding ST attacks do about the same final damage despite the scrapper's faster recharges. That is assuming identical slottings, individual slotting preferences will of course factor into it.

The final difference is that you're a shield defense character and he's not. Presumably you had against all odds running? If so, you were getting damage buffs that the scrapper wasn't, which also would have contributed.

So the answer is, more or less, you picked a slower, (relatively) harder hitting melee set than he did, and you were both low enough level that the higher scrapper damage modifer hadn't kicked in enough yet to overcome the difference. You also may have had damage buffs from your offensively-oriented armor set that he didnt. They haven't buffed overall tanker damage recently, but contrary to popularly expressed ingame opinions, tanker damage really isn't too shabby to begin with.

Well, he did run out of Endurance fairly quick, and im very aware that Tanker damage wasnt bad either way, but I was just surprised to see a Lethal Damage set doing any damage.That may change at later levels, and if it does, ill just go back to my Fire/Fire, or Elec/Elec Tanker, and be happy either way.

Yes, I was running the shield damage buff.

Yeah, not much is resistant to Lethal damage at the lower levels. It's once you start getting into the higher-level enemies that it starts to become more prevalent.

Good news: Carnies and most robots are vulnerable to Lethal damage.

Welcome to Tanking Fire-Minded!

Everyone give him positive rep for going good!

Click for Hot Sun Splitter Action

Yeah, this isn't going to be true so much as Proliferation continues, but in general Tanker Melee sets have been slower, with higher recharge but greater damage per hit. Stone Melee, which is known to be strong overall, is probably the best example of this. Due to the nature of attack chaining, this means overall a slow recharge set does more DPS - but costs more End as well.

That's what's compensating for your difference in damage between Tanker and Scrapper. If he was a Broadsword, it might have been a bit closer. And likely a one on one comparison between Axe Tanker and Axe Scrapper, should it be proliferated in the future, would likely show a definate advantage for the Scrapper.

Some peoples Scrappers have only single target attacks. Not taking AoEs drops their damage output versus multiple targets within a timeframe. They'll do less DPE than other Scrappers with both ST and AoE. Firetanks and Icetanks may through AoE plus better end rec, outdamage certain types of Scrappers with no AoEs and less end rec over the course of a mission..

I came off as a little more jerkish than I intended to.

I'm honestly curious to see an Ice/Ice tank that can outdamage a scrapper. I don't believe it's possible and would like to see it. If anyone can think of a fair, balanced test to determine who outdamages who, please share it.

AE might be a good choice for the timed mission. Of course depending on the vulnerabilities of the enemies the number could get skewed.

Only one problem with that.

Single target scrapper was never specified in the original claim. You simply said "a scrapper".

Otherwise I agree that it is a fair test.

I'm thinking a timed defeat all in AE using the often farmed city block map. For enemy type I suggest Council, as I don't think they have any particular resistances or weaknesses. If I'm wrong and anyone knows of an enemy type that fits that description feel free to correct.

A setting of +1/x4 w/bosses would be fair, as it would require both good AoE output and good single target output.

RWZ Challenge isn't a very fair test between a scrapper and a tank. Any scrapper that can pull it off reliably is IOed to the gills and beyond, and while a tank can survive it fairly reliably, his killing speed will be very low compared to a scrapper that can even do it. There's a reason the RWZ Challenge is considered an accomplishment of a good build.

Also, using a Levantera mission as a timer won't work either, there's no guarantee you will find an acceptable mob right away, and it's too easily skewed.

Ice melee on a tank is horrible for single target attacks. If a scrapper cant out damage an ice melee tank, than the scrapper has a horrid build. Ice melee does have nice AoE now that Frozen Aura has the same damage as Foot Stomp... but all cold. Frost is also nice, even though it is DoT.

Fire melee for tanks is great, with FSC being the best AoE. Couple that with Combustion, which some hate, but I find it as a nice AoE attack.

Shield/Fire does massive damage. (More than Fire/Fire) It does not do more damage than a Fire/shield scrapper. The tank has more AoE potential with combustion, but the scrapper has higher damage from each attack.

Ice Ember