For the last couple of days, I've been thinking about rolling a new tank, namely because we are looking soon at a mass influx of Dual Pistol blaster/defenders. Someone's gotta keep them alive.
The plan was to roll out a Stoner, and I headed over to the boards to see if there was anything new on the subject. Then I found this thread.
My SG has seen two ice tanks roll through in two years. Both complained about endurance, 50 toggles, etc. A couple of times, some of our elite tank players have fiddled with the concept of rolling a Ice tank, only to say, "to hell with this".
Fire_Minded's post has inspired me. Not necessarily to prove him right or wrong, but just to see if I can have fun designing a damage-minded tank (yes, I have only played the "hit me in the face 100 times tank) built around Ice Armor. I'll roll it out this week and see where it takes me.
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Iv been playing the Tanker off and on.So far its not so bad.It wouldnt beat another AoE Scrapper, so its no big deal.It seems ill lose the theory.So ill concead to defeat now.|
Originally Posted by SterlingSteel
For the last couple of days, I've been thinking about rolling a new tank, namely because we are looking soon at a mass influx of Dual Pistol blaster/defenders. Someone's gotta keep them alive.
The plan was to roll out a Stoner, and I headed over to the boards to see if there was anything new on the subject. Then I found this thread. My SG has seen two ice tanks roll through in two years. Both complained about endurance, 50 toggles, etc. A couple of times, some of our elite tank players have fiddled with the concept of rolling a Ice tank, only to say, "to hell with this". Fire_Minded's post has inspired me. Not necessarily to prove him right or wrong, but just to see if I can have fun designing a damage-minded tank (yes, I have only played the "hit me in the face 100 times tank) built around Ice Armor. I'll roll it out this week and see where it takes me. |
However im gladdly sticking it out with this Tanker because its fun to play for me.Ill be more then happy to take the Ice Epic and use Ice Storm to up the damage over all for the build as well.I plan on foregoing IO Soft-Capping this Tanker as well for a few reasons.
I can almost Soft-Cap with SOs using the Absorb AoE in the Armor Set.So Its going to be mostly Recharge, Damage Procs, and Recovery that ill be slapping into this build.
With any luck i'll have enough Recharge to use my Hoarfrost up as a Heal like I do with FA builds, and have the capability to repeatedly fire off Frost, Ice Storm, and Frozen Aura.If its possible to get these to go off alot faster would cause the DPS to drop a entire mob all at once wont be a issue at all.
I also dont see how ST damage will be any issue for Bosses either because of some quick animating powers and massive amounts of Global Recharge.
This is my hope of coarse.But this is what ill be striving for.
If I can slot it correctly when it comes time for IOs it may become more then powerful at dealing damage then it ever could be with SOs.Mainly because it doesnt have to focus on Soft-Capping like other builds.
Stick with it.I have a feeling the Pay off with IOs on this Ice Tank could be BIG.
I was actually going to use a Fire/Regen for the test. It has a nice mix of single target and AoE. And you can go ahead and use Ice Storm, I was going to use Fireball so it's only fair. I consider the whole build, not just primary and secondary, if you want to use Air Superiority in you attack chain, go for it (can't see why you'd want to in this case, but not breaking a rule)
Edit: I didn't choose Fire/Regen in any attempt to weigh the outcome in my favor, I chose it because I already have one.
Also: I almost never use Mid's while I'm actually leveling a character, I use it for a final build or as a sort of scratch pad to figure out what direction I'm going with it. Why use a piece of paper when there's a program that already has all the information in it?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Hi Claws,|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I was actually going to use a Fire/Regen for the test. It has a nice mix of single target and AoE. And you can go ahead and use Ice Storm, I was going to use Fireball so it's only fair. I consider the whole build, not just primary and secondary, if you want to use Air Superiority in you attack chain, go for it (can't see why you'd want to in this case, but not breaking a rule)
Edit: I didn't choose Fire/Regen in any attempt to weigh the outcome in my favor, I chose it because I already have one. Also: I almost never use Mid's while I'm actually leveling a character, I use it for a final build or as a sort of scratch pad to figure out what direction I'm going with it. Why use a piece of paper when there's a program that already has all the information in it? |
I wouldn't mind running a comparison between your Scrapper and my SD/SS Tank.
A SD/SS is obviously one of the higher damage tanks so it would be interesting to see how it compares to a Scrapper.
If you fancy it let me know - it's not a challenge as I fully expect the Scrapper to win but as I said it would be interesting.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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I'll probably win the comparison, but it will be close I think. If my character was Fire/SD it would be a different story, but I try to avoid FOTM combos whenever possible. (meaning I won't play something just because it's powerful, but if I come up with an idea for a character that requires those sets FOTM status won't stop me) |
Originally Posted by Psiphon
Hi Claws,
I wouldn't mind running a comparison between your Scrapper and my SD/SS Tank. A SD/SS is obviously one of the higher damage tanks so it would be interesting to see how it compares to a Scrapper. If you fancy it let me know - it's not a challenge as I fully expect the Scrapper to win but as I said it would be interesting. |
My scrapper isn't 50 yet, or IOed at all, so it will be a while before I'm willing to run comparisons. I'm sitting at level 38 (yay MoG!) and I'm not entirely sure exactly how I'm doing his final build yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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An Ice Tank doesn't really have any End issues, yes you run lots of toggles but you have Energy Absorbtion on a fairly short recharge to refill your End bar and Hibernate which refills both health and Endurance.|
Originally Posted by SterlingSteel
For the last couple of days, I've been thinking about rolling a new tank, namely because we are looking soon at a mass influx of Dual Pistol blaster/defenders. Someone's gotta keep them alive.
The plan was to roll out a Stoner, and I headed over to the boards to see if there was anything new on the subject. Then I found this thread. My SG has seen two ice tanks roll through in two years. Both complained about endurance, 50 toggles, etc. A couple of times, some of our elite tank players have fiddled with the concept of rolling a Ice tank, only to say, "to hell with this". Fire_Minded's post has inspired me. Not necessarily to prove him right or wrong, but just to see if I can have fun designing a damage-minded tank (yes, I have only played the "hit me in the face 100 times tank) built around Ice Armor. I'll roll it out this week and see where it takes me. |
If you want to get some damage out of it, your best bets are probably /Fire or /Super Strengh. SS would be my personal choice as it offers some mitigation with Knockdown and EA would allow you to counter the End crash in Rage.
Hibernate would be an oh c*** button if you did lose all of your End after a Rage crash and your toggles dropped.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Running the comparison now shouldn't be a problem, the only IO' sets in the build are for capping defence -Gaussians in Focused Accuracy and the Steadfast Def/Res unique.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'll probably win the comparison, but it will be close I think. If my character was Fire/SD it would be a different story, but I try to avoid FOTM combos whenever possible. (meaning I won't play something just because it's powerful, but if I come up with an idea for a character that requires those sets FOTM status won't stop me)
My scrapper isn't 50 yet, or IOed at all, so it will be a while before I'm willing to run comparisons. I'm sitting at level 38 (yay MoG!) and I'm not entirely sure exactly how I'm doing his final build yet. |
So I've got no Epic damage at all either.
The criteria I was going to set was:
No Epic damage - I haven't got any and I'm not willing to respec.
No Red or Yellow Inspirations.
I won't use Veteran damage powers during the Rage crash.
This way we should get a reasonable comparison of the Basic Sets.
We would need to do this AE as I'm not prepared to chase specific missions.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Ice/Stone for one of the best tanks. Fault and Tremor are huge for controlling aggro and safety of the tank and team. Seismic Smash is tremendous. You can get enough recharge to use Seismic Smash twice with one Build-up. AoE damage wise it is weak with only Tremor... but who cares...you are the tank. You can hold a boss in one hit and keep the entire spawn flopping with Fault and Tremor.|
Originally Posted by SterlingSteel
For the last couple of days, I've been thinking about rolling a new tank, namely because we are looking soon at a mass influx of Dual Pistol blaster/defenders. Someone's gotta keep them alive.
The plan was to roll out a Stoner, and I headed over to the boards to see if there was anything new on the subject. Then I found this thread. My SG has seen two ice tanks roll through in two years. Both complained about endurance, 50 toggles, etc. A couple of times, some of our elite tank players have fiddled with the concept of rolling a Ice tank, only to say, "to hell with this". Fire_Minded's post has inspired me. Not necessarily to prove him right or wrong, but just to see if I can have fun designing a damage-minded tank (yes, I have only played the "hit me in the face 100 times tank) built around Ice Armor. I'll roll it out this week and see where it takes me. |
Ice/Fire for carnage. Great at holding aggro and dealing damage. Doesnt have any mitigation with fire, but who cares... Hibernate if needed (very rarely) and defeat things quickly.
Or, if you really want rare - Shield/Ice. It is faster at defeats than my fire/ice and easily soft capped. It is an AoE monster, not as fast as SD/Fire, but still incredible. (I have one that I am going to miss when I close my second account...) Ice melee though... still blows on single targets.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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The fact that I could use Ice Storm would help close a large gap between the Ice Tank and the FM/Regen Scrapper you already have.It might possibly match your AoE.If just barly get close to the numbers mainly due to Fireball having a lower damage rating then Ice Storm.Which if im correct does double the base damage vs Fireball.I may be wrong about this entirly.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I was actually going to use a Fire/Regen for the test. It has a nice mix of single target and AoE. And you can go ahead and use Ice Storm, I was going to use Fireball so it's only fair. I consider the whole build, not just primary and secondary, if you want to use Air Superiority in you attack chain, go for it (can't see why you'd want to in this case, but not breaking a rule)
Edit: I didn't choose Fire/Regen in any attempt to weigh the outcome in my favor, I chose it because I already have one. Also: I almost never use Mid's while I'm actually leveling a character, I use it for a final build or as a sort of scratch pad to figure out what direction I'm going with it. Why use a piece of paper when there's a program that already has all the information in it? |
Im still going to lose.However if I took my Fire Tanker for a fun filled run.I might be capable of keeping up with your Scrappers pace.Crits alone will make it jump ahead reguardless of my Tanker builds damage in any case.
My whole deal is that I perfer dealing with a Melee Build that doesnt rely on Crits or Fury.It gives me more perdictability for my Melee characters in the long run.
It allows me to know that im going to kill whatever in a X amount of hits and thats cormforting to me.
Now im curious to see how a SD/SS Tanker can stand upto the damge of a Fire/Fire for that matter.Ill see about that test after I post footage on my triple Ice Tanker over time.I unfortunatly dont have the ability to be online alot due to a Sattalite Link and Life comming up.However ill do what I can.
Side Note : Im certain a SD/SS Tank can out damage my SD/Axe Tank, but itll be fun watching them both go!
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That depends on how you build your tanks, from looking at base numbers years ago, iirc using best attack chains they were pretty damn close on what they can do to a single target to an endurance bar. Nothings changed since I last looked I don't think. SS has the edge on Axe in terms of the constant level of tohit really but I think with Axe it can do more damage to more targets to an endurance bar than SS.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Side Note : Im certain a SD/SS Tank can out damage my SD/Axe Tank, but itll be fun watching them both go!
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I remember vaguely but in the end I was pretty certain that all secondaries were pretty equal just never in terms of the same thing.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Although ice/ice tanks can be quite powerful against large groups of relatively weak foes, against tougher enemies, they simply lack the single target damage output to make quick work of bosses. Ice/Ice can do some impressive things, but because you will basically be brought to a stop by Malta Zeus Titans (and you can't avoid the stupid things, since the Hercs will combine into boss level titans even if you're set for no bosses) amongst others, I think people are accurate in not considering it a high damage set.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Fire melee for tanks is great, with FSC being the best AoE. Couple that with Combustion, which some hate, but I find it as a nice AoE attack.
Shield/Fire does massive damage. (More than Fire/Fire) It does not do more damage than a Fire/shield scrapper. The tank has more AoE potential with combustion, but the scrapper has higher damage from each attack.
Ill say it Again just in case anyone ignored me.
Tankers can do close to Scrapper damage but they cant compete with a Scrappers Crit.Period.
Now im not totally concerned with the Numbers a Ice Tanker may be lacking because iv been surprised by builds that have low numbers before.So this is more of a test on a Theory then anything else.
Iv also stated before that ill still get a high level Ice Tank out of the deal.So its a win win either way for me.