World pvp (at least read the start)

Saying "We" followed by any statement does imply just that.

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The problem is, no one who suggests world PvP has been able to "work out" exactly how those potential issues would be avoided (well, other than saying "PvP flags will fix everything!", "Make a PvP server", or "Grow a thicker skin!").

In order to make an official PvP server, you'd have to do one of several things:

1. Convert an existing server into the "official" PvP server. This would upset a lot of current players, and probably lead to a mass exodus. Many of those players would quit in a fit of nerdrage rather than transfer to another non-PvP server.

2. Make all server PvP servers, but only one is "official". You know how empty the PvP zones are? Imagine if the entire server had the same population as a PvP zone. Now imagine the entire game with that same population...

3. Make a seperate codebase and a seperate, new PvP server. This would be a coding/maintenance/updating nightmare. [/QUOTE]

3 would be the only viable option... nobody said it would be easy... but it could be done.

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If the only way your idea will succeed is for someone to implement it without considering how players would react to it, it's probably not a good idea. [/QUOTE]

We'll never know if they don't try it.


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You're right about one thing--it's not 50/50. It's probably not even 90/10, especially after PvP rebalancing. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of current, active PvP'ers on any given server were less than 1% of that server's population. And I'd also argue that the number of people who hate PvP with an irrational passion outnumber that 1%. So...to play devil's advocate, do you really think that the devs want to ignore the requests of the PvP haters? They aren't in the majority either, but they are a minority that should have their voices heard, right?[/QUOTE]

Has it not occured to anyone that PvP might not be as popular because of the lack of open world PvP? I've not participated in PvP at all because all I hear about is how it's been broken since I13. Those of you that have been playing for awhile forget that there are other people out there that are relatively new to the game that might like to see something like this implemented.

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Those customers probably aren't coming back--there are many games out there with arguably better PvP implemention. Rather than trying to pull PvP'ers (who were a small percentage under the best of circumstances) back into the game, they'd be better off trying to appeal to the people still playing.[/QUOTE]

They are appealing to those that are still playing... but what's wrong with also trying to appeal to those that they may have lost as well as possibly draw new ones in that like the idea of PvP in a comic book world which as Golden Girl pointed out makes more sense here than a lot of people here want to realize.

Edit: So I haven't quit figured out how to multiquote the same message lol

You're the third person to randomly generate a percentage from who knows where... anyone have any facts to back any of these up?

You could also point out that that it's a small percentage of players that are actually active on the forums so any statements consisting of "most people on the forums" are irrelevant because they do not represent the entire community as a whole.

No, it doesn't. It implies he speaks for a group, and he does. I'm part of the "we" he was referring to.

You don't have try something to know it's a bad idea. Would you try skydiving without a parachute, or would you realize it wasn't a good idea without trying it?

Lack of world PvP isn't why PvP is unpopular--it's largely the PvP implementation, with its seperate coding (diminshing returns, etc), and the fact that this game was first released without any PvP whatsoever. Many players (myself included), came to this game partially because of that. We (and just to make sure you don't misunderstand, I'm referring to "people who came to this game partially due to its lack of world PvP") were thrilled when PvP implementation was made through seperate zones, making PvP entirely optional.

I know you want to make PvP more popular, but worldwide PvP doesn't begin to accomplish that. It would alienate more people than it would excite. I know you're part of that latter minority, and I'm sorry, but it's true. I wish this game could appeal to everyone, but there are some issues where pleasing a few people would piss off a lot of people. PvP is one of them.

The problem is, you can make the storyline as compelling as the best novel in the world, but if the implementation is a variant of CoH PvP, it's just not going to be popular. I love good storylines, and I love RPing. That doesn't mean I'd PvP even if you convinced me there was such a thing as compelling, immersive, PvP roleplay. PvP just doesn't work that way.

With an idea like this, trying and failing is worse for their business than not trying at all.

That is extremely unlikely. With the exception of newbies who level their characters completely within the AE, or completely via newspaper/radio missions, everyone is given an introduction to the PvP zones. So you can't claim ignorance of their existence. Anyone interested in PvP has the opportunity to try without needing world PvP.

Further, the low PvP population in world PvP would simply be spread out more than it already is, making it more difficult to find an opponent, short of badgering someone who doesn't want to PvP.

Further still, the "broken" version of PvP (which you yourself have pointed out) does not easily lend itself to new players becoming interested. If you want to increase PvP participation, "fixing" the current state of PvP should be a far greater priority. (I will admit, as someone who does not actively PvP, I can't claim what is broken nor how to fix it.)

Aside from fixing any broken aspects of PvP, I think cross-server PvP would be a far greater boon to the PvP-inclined. Cross-server PvP in the PvP zones would concentrate the PvP playerbase from 11 servers (15 servers if you include the EU) into 4 zones (plus arena, if that's included). Creating world PvP would spread the population of one server's 4 zones into 44 zones, diluting the pool of potential opponents.

I should think concentrating as many PvP players as possible from the small PvP population would be more desirable than diluting it.

I have no doubt that what I said is the opinion of around 85-90% of the playerbase. One merely has to login and check to see what zones people are in. If you do you'll see that the PvP zones are always almost empty.



Yeah nice try, but why don't you mosey on over to Champions and see what happened when their devs said they were going to charge for their next issue. The majority of their players told them off and they decided not to charge for it. Our devs know that if they implemented an open world pvp they'd start hemorrhaging customers. Money talks.

I've seen this idea suggested before, and I /sign it every time. There was a time when I tried PvP and enjoyed it, and this would definitely make me go back and try it again. With a much larger concentration of PvP'ers, forming PvP teams would become easier (which was arguably the devs' intention for PvP implementation in the first place, rather than the mostly 1 on 1 encounters most servers are limited to now.) So if you're looking at a PvP idea that would excite PvP'ers, and potentially bring people who never PvP into the zones, I think this one is a winner.

I would agree with everything in your post... but these points I guess are what I kinda missed... first off I'm not sure what PvP was like prior to I13 I just know that it's considered to be what "broke" PvP.

That being said I also cannot really offer any suggestions as far as fixing it other than those already stated but they clearly have issues (the solutions not those stating them).

Aside from cross server zones I do think it would be a good idea to have (pardon me for this) some WoWish Battle Ground type instances. For any unfamiliar basically the BGs are different cross server instances where one team faces another in a battle over a common objective (capture the flag is the easiest to explain). Having an objective gives it purpose other than just having the ability to say "HAHAH NOOB I GOT YOU!". Granted there are those players that still do that but they are usually on the losing team.

I don't know I happen to like PvP (in general never tried it in CoX) and I'd think if they could find a way to fix what they broke in I13 (anyone care to explain that btw?) it would make all involved happy.

Yes.

1. They ignored the people that threatened to quit over the changes to the AE farms because it was what was best for the game.

2. They ignored the people that threatened to quit because of the restrictions placed on the trial accounts because it ws what was best for the game.

3. They've been ignoring the "Merge the servers" crowd for years

4. They've been ignoring the people that want to respec out of AT's

5. They've been ignoring the people that want to pull all their enhancements off of a build.

6. They've been ignoring the Basebuilders requests for more base love for years.

Agreed. Another thing I'd like to see would be auto teams. I believe WoW as something similar (but as I've never had my own WoW account, I can't say for certain). My experience comes from the Halloween Event in Guild Wars; one part of the event was a "Costume Brawl". You entered a queue, were automatically placed on a PvP team with random teammates also participating in the Costume Brawl (the "brawl" part) and given a set of skills and stats based on your gender and primary profession (the "costume" part). As my character was a female Elementalist, I became Cynn for the duration of the battle, a for-hire NPC ally throughout the game's storyline.

(Amusingly, the stats and skill layout of Cynn in the Costume Brawl was very similar to my normal stats and skill layout...)

Again, assuming you're right ignoring 10% of the playerbase is still not a smart move... it just comes down to finding a way to address their wants without ticking off the rest of the community... admittedly that hasn't happened but there seems to be a general consensus that cross server PvP zones might be the answer... wouldn't you agree that even if only 10% of the population enters those zones it's a good idea for the devs to address that as a possibility?

PvP in CoH has a certain "capture the flag" mini-game in place for Recluse's Victory, but you have a good point. Something similiar along those lines is Base Raiding, which could be a lot of fun (if you happen to be in an SG/VG).

Yes, I think very few would object to cross-server PvP. The main issue is the resources it takes to get that working, compared to how many people would actually use it =/

Actually - I think you make a case not to have PvP in super hero games. In fantasy games - you are one of many. Your individual wins and loses are part of a larger battle. In a superhero MMO - you character is larger than life. Most people want their superhero to be - super. Individual wins and losses do matter. PvP pretty much breaks that illusion. I think the nemesis system is a superior choice.

Anyways - the comic book argument is pretty weak considering the rest of the game. Most comic book fights don't take place in either a warehouse/cave/office building. Heroes rarely take the train from one part of town to the next. Villains never take ferries.

Lastly - in MMO's game mechanics should always be considered above the RP of a game. That isn't to say the RP shouldn't be considered - it should - but if an idea doesn't work in the game you have, you should not implement it, no matter how good the idea is.

That's actually EXACTLY how BGs work in WoW. You queue up and are auto-teamed with people from your "battlegroup" which consists of all players from certain servers. A battlegroup concept wouldn't be necessary in CoX as it doesn't have nearly as many servers as WoW does.

This would give everyone what they want... those that want PvP will get it rather than going to an empty zone in hopes of running into someone else, and those that don't want it will never have to see it as long as they don't queue up.

The ONE potential downfall of this (which I hope NCSoft would recognize) is to create rewards that are so powerful that some would feel forced to PvP in order to get the best IOs or whatever. WoW did this and enjoying PvP I didn't mind but it SUCKED for those who didn't want to PvP.

As long as its an option we can set to decline, I'd be for it. Heck I'd be for it for PVE. I know most the folks in STO I talk to have toggled auto team off normally, but it does make for a quick and easy PUG if you are in the mood.

Making it easier for the people that like PvP the ability to get together is a great idea. Just keep that open world PvP stuff away from this game.

This is turning out to be one of the most productive PvP suggestion threads I've ever seen. I would love to see this implemented--like Fleeting Whisper, I just hope that enough people would take advantage of it to justify the expense. However, I would, and I'm hardly the target PvP audience--maybe that's a good sign. This idea has none of the things that make me uncomfortable about most PvP suggestions: no PvP on/off flags, no focus on 1 on 1 dueling, etc. You only join the event if you sign up for it, and even the loners will have a better shot at joining a PvP team. I like it.

Unfortunately, we're already partially down that road already. The PvP IOs are pretty rare though. I think it was a mistake to add them, personally.

No dead horses, thank you

But I do think PvP will get looked at again - especially if DCUO is centered on PvP.

lol I'd still like to see open world PvP but it seems as though it will never happen here... I'm sure the biggest reason for that is that it was done as an after thought instead of part of the original structure.

I think that enough people would try team PvP because that's what this game is all about... teaming. Sure it's fun to go into a mission and steamroll it because you can but it's that much more satisfying to fight someone of (hopefully) equal power and come out on top.

I'm not familiar with the PvP IOs and like I said I really hope that if they even consider this idea further PvP rewards are made for either PvP only or something.

Granted there are those people that want nothing to do with PvP but I honestly think that even they might get a kick out of something like this if they can get past the fact that they would lose at some point. That would be my best advice and was always the first thing I told anyone in WoW if they asked about PvP... be prepared to lose... a lot... and you'll have fun. Go in and expect it to be as easy as PvE and you'll hate it.

I don't know if that's true or not, but I always felt that it was something that wasn't planned for from the beginning.

I think that's the biggest problem with all MMOs when it comes to PvP vs PvE, most seem to focus on one and the "other" suffers for it. WoW seems to be the only game that I've seen that has had a decent success at doing both but even hardcore PvPers say that the PvP in WoW is laughable... not sure why... that's just what they say.

If I had WoW's budget, I'd be good at both too.

Actually, no, I wouldn't. I'd take all that money and flee to a beautiful island somewhere and watch the news from my 2000 inch flatscreen tv as Blizzard stock plummets and NCSoft stock rises...then again, maybe that's why I shouldn't work at Blizzard.

I should have been more clear - I was talking more along the lines of the population, not hero vs villain.

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