Stalkers are what?


Akuma_Mishima

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
The effect 'Demoralize' does not stack, like the Mystic Fortune card buffs. Even if different members of your team cast it on you, it can only grant 1 temp power.
Would "Number allowed: 1"-tag be the culprit? Meaning that that one tag would disable the AS'd target's buddies be unaffected by further Demoralizations, even from different sources?

Looks pretty puzzling if the -ToHit doesn't stack but the Fear effect does.


 

Posted

Yep.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
There were also a lot of idiots who thought that playing a Stalker meant "hit Assassin's Strike, run away, come back when rehidden". Some still think that, sadly. You can kindof guess how that leads teams to feel about Stalkers.
I had this problem the other day, with a stalker on an ITF aggroing mobs with AS, then running away and hiding. This works fine if the tank already has aggro, but otherwise the enemies are now charging at an unprepared team. After my Blaster died several times from this guy's antics, I felt very negatively towards Stalkers.

It used to be, as was the suggested tactic above, that Stalkers took out the problem targets: the mezzers, healers, etc. I've heard it described that the best Stalkers aren't directly noticed, but that the team will notice how the squishes aren't getting mezzed anymore, and the bosses are dropping like flies. Sadly, I've noticed this sort of clever targeting as a declining trend.

(I've noticed this on Scrappers too, unfortunately, and the end result seems to be people yelling at AoE Blasters/Corrs to handle these single targets while ST-specialist Scrappers/Stalkers (e.g. Dark Melee) are trying to AoE.)

I still have the people on my friendslist, or people I've marked with 4-5 stars, that I'd welcome to my team with any AT. But, in a PuG, I'd rather recruit anything over a Stalker now. I'd rather risk a poor troller/fender/corr than a bad stalker.


 

Posted

Remeber when we used to have to be lakeyed an your stalker mentor would run ahead an leave your lowbie to die a horrible death or how about " Mr wanna stealth every mish " never mind all the drops we could have gotten or the money we could make from killin atleast a few mobs . oh no mr stalker dont worry bout the rest of the team .


 

Posted

When I play my DM/Nin Stalker on a team, I have it attack the toughest thing in the mob with Assassin's Eclipse and then start attacking any enemies that are a) nearby or b) threatening the squishies.

When I play my Elec/Regen Stalker, I have it open up with AoEs out of hide or Assassin's Shock the biggest enemy as needed, and run away only is in imminent danger. I like my Elec/Regen, but it isn't as durable in the middle of a big melee as my DM/Nin Stalker is.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethric View Post
Would "Number allowed: 1"-tag be the culprit? Meaning that that one tag would disable the AS'd target's buddies be unaffected by further Demoralizations, even from different sources?

Looks pretty puzzling if the -ToHit doesn't stack but the Fear effect does.
Ah, I guess that'd be the reason

I was kind of discouraged when I learned that the first time but it probably would be ridiculous if you could stack that irresistable -ToHit.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
The effect 'Demoralize' does not stack, like the Mystic Fortune card buffs. Even if different members of your team cast it on you, it can only grant 1 temp power.
He's not talking about stacking Demoralize. He's talking about stacking the effects caused by Demoralize. If each AS'ed target procs the -tohit and fear in an AoE around themselves, those effects should stack since they are coming from different casters. As has been pointing out, not much good in an 8vs1 AV fight since you only have one target to Demoralize. You'd almost have to be going up against an all-boss spawn in fact, for this to be useful, since lesser targets probably wouldn't survive the AS. Maybe LTs if you don't build-up first, but then what's the point of that?

The effects are pretty short-lived as well. So it's not crazy even if you do manage to stack them.


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Posted

Well, question has been answered for the OP, I guess, but in the interest of future visitors to this thread I thought I'd give my views on the matter.

In a sense, what I like to say is that the Scrapper is the "generic" fighter on the blue side, while the Tanker is a specialist. He specializes with defense and heavy (slow) attacks, making him the better tank for the team. The Scrapper is more flexible, having more roles including both tanking and damage dealing. On the red side, it's the other way around, it's the BRUTE that is the generic, and the Stalker that is the specialist. The Stalker specializes ONLY with dealing damage, he can't tank, or at best, can only tank in short bursts, but he needs to LOSE all aggro in order to make best use of his powers.

As for damage, it basically goes Tanker > Stalker > Scrapper, with the Brute basically starting at the Tanker and working his way up to Scrapper as his Fury builds up. Stalkers and Scrappers really do close to the same damage now, but a Scrapper still will do more sustained damage over time. The increased chance of Critical on a team, though, means that in a large team, a Stalker will probably be contributing as much damage as the Scrapper will. He can even tank almost as well, given the right backup. (Despite what some people might say, a Stalker's defenses are, with a few exceptions, exactly the same as a Scrapper or Brute's. It is only the hit points that separates the three in terms of survivability)

Where a Stalker specializes is in single target burst damage. A Tanker, Brute or Scrapper can take several seconds to take out their first foe, more if it's a Boss or AV. A Stalker takes its first foe out in one strike, unless it's an AV, and even then the target and the foes around it will be weakened. This means that in essense the Stalker takes out a bunch of foes in a quick flurry, and then the Scrappers and Brutes catch up with him as the fight ends. This is what makes him very much like a Blaster. (If you think of the strike from Hide as the Blaster's Aim+Build Up, this is similar too)


 

Posted

Any idiot that hits once and runs away is unto Stalkers what a 'he4lorz' is to Empath Defenders. *grumbles*

My Claws/Ninja Stalker is pretty damn stabby. Ninjitsu has some nifty little control tricks in it, a nice heal, and more than enough defence to see me get by. And this is at level 38, not IO'd. If it's alive longer than a couple of minutes, it means I'm slowly wailing down on an EB or something. And by slowly I mean by this guys normal average
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Originally Posted by Wyvernclaw View Post
Thanks for the information guys..If I go redside i will pick another At. Stalkers do sound neat but seem a little more advanced. That along with the less team friendly means i will save the stalker for a alt.

Thanks again.

Roll a mastermind! You won't need ateam, you will be a team


 

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Originally Posted by beyeajus74018 View Post
Roll a mastermind! You won't need ateam, you will be a team
Don't know about that, MM's are difficult to use properly.

Its almost like playing a RTS, for me anyway.

Stalkers, in a way, are control, as they knock out particularly important targets, such as Sappers, or Longbow Nullifyers, and are capable of some pretty good damage.

I've seen a Ninja Blade / Ninjutsu Stalker tank Rom :3


 

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Originally Posted by Microcosm View Post
Must have been a lot of heals going his way, cause Rom's got that nasty pbaoe autohit attack; extremely annoying.
Autohit it may be (and it's on one of the Nictus Essences, not Rommie), but Ninjitsu has a heal, and it's not hard to cap Stalker hit points. My DM/Nin didn't tank Rommie - at least in the last encounter, but that was because of the annoying Brute that kept getting his attention while I stayed in melee the whole time.

I did tank Rommie and Requiem in the mission before that one, though, because the Brute decided that attempting to herd the entire platform they were standing on was more important than staying under the aggro cap and just getting parts of it, and Assassin's Eclipse tends to get a mob's attention. (See? Stalkers aren't the only AT that can mess up a team's plan!) While I'd like some more defense debuff resistance in Nin, having Caltrops and Blinding Powder will give you plenty of time for the debuffs to wear off.

And to the sidenote on MMs... they're both the easiest AT to play and the hardest AT to play well. A poor MM can cause far more issues for a team than anyone else - think of how much extra aggro fire imps can cause when left unwatched, then double the number and give them AoE attacks. A good MM makes the rest of the team irrelevant.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded View Post
Back about a year ago, I tried a Stalker, and I wasnt totally thrilled with it, and it was rough trying to get a team because people wanted heals or AoE damage red side, so I started making teams of Stalkers.

Its acctually amazing just how quickly a Stalker Player learns to team with other Stalkers.After mid way through the first mission with 7 Stalkers on the team, we started gathering in the mob and almost as if we where mind linked, we would all start mentally watching each other to pick a seprate target and each of us would fire off our Assassin Strikes.

That was prolly the most Zen like experiance iv had in this game, and we dropped mobs in short order.The remaining Baddies left from our starting Alpha was met with a flurry of pain, and after all lay dead on the floor, all the Stalkers would dissapear once more, and all would go silent.

Then the Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth Started again, and not 1 Stalker died during this all Stalker team.

Makes me wish for the good ol days.
Been there, yes it is fun. I was once on a team of 5 stalkers on a King's Row bank mish, all blade-wielding stalkers to boot. Those Longbow rushing the front door didn't even know what hit them, it was like a huge AoE fear effect went off.


 

Posted

I'm no expert on Stalkers but I've got one I enjoy. My mindset in a team is that I'm the equalizer. I watch what the leader's doing then make my own tactical decisions to support the team. Maybe a Lt's a big threat, he goes down first. Maybe it's the boss. He's gone. But I rarely back off to re-Hide unless things are so crazy, special effects and chaos everywhere, that I can't make a good decision. Then I'll hover up over the battle, wait for Hide to kick in, and dive down to make a surgical strike.

So it's really a mix for me. Initial tactical strike. Then pseudo-scrapper mode on anything nearby. Or if the situation is unclear I'll back, not off, but up and assess the battle before making another tactical strike.

But I always try to keep an eye on what the team's doing. Which mobs are anchors for abilities, which ones the Brute's having fun with, who might be in trouble, if there are runners, where nearby spawns are, etc.

I don't talk about it. I just do it. I level the playing field.

Edit: I haven't played a Blaster seriously yet and they may do the same kind of thing. To me it feels like inverse tanking. Instead of trying to get everything attacking me in a big mass, I'm looking for specific targets that are causing specific problems and neutralizing them. It's much more of a team oriented mindset than when I play a Scrapper or Brute.


 

Posted

Gruppa you should be ashamed of yourself. People like you raise the bar for the rest of us and make it so that teams think hit and run nubs don't know how to use a stalker. Next thing you know they'll be expecting masterminds to control their pets instead of just setting them to Aggressive and then going to town with their primary set attacks, or expecting corruptors to use their secondaries. Dogs and cats living together MASS HYSTERIA!!!11!one!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded View Post

Its acctually amazing just how quickly a Stalker Player learns to team with other Stalkers.After mid way through the first mission with 7 Stalkers on the team, we started gathering in the mob and almost as if we where mind linked, we would all start mentally watching each other to pick a seprate target and each of us would fire off our Assassin Strikes.
Can any enemy stands after 7 Inspired/Build Up Assassin Strikes hit at once? O_o

I suppose it's like watching 7 Robot MM doing lasers. Must be awing.