How to solve WW/BM Inflation

They've never dropped on the live servers. As Fleeting has suggested, they have dropped in a closed beta, but those drops did not get carried over to the live servers, or even the open betas. That shows the developer intention in spades. They will not likely be dropping unless the developers change their mind about the level cap.


You probably should have.

Well, as to tomorrow on the live servers, I think I can say with confidence that will not happen.

A test of reasonableness suggests that what people are using is a loophole to get around the Inf cap. As has been shown before, people will adapt. Sure they might grumble a bit. However given that we're talking about a very tiny portion of the population (less than 1,000 of 150,000+ accounts) that are excessively storing these bids, then the developers might not care. I don't have the numbers, but I am sure that the developers can get the numbers.

In other words: Do nothing because it might upset someone. We've had about two years of that attitude. Guess what? It isn't working. Something must be done as inactivity is only making the situation (and eventual "solution") worse.

May I direct you to the mass badge removal of Issue 15? Perhaps you've forgotten it. It works exactly that way.

The developers have shown in the past to let matters alone until it reaches a critical point (which may not have been met yet here), or they may not be aware of just how far the practice has spread (if you don't know the right questions to ask, you'll never get answers). Case in point: The bug where exempted characters maintained full strength (sadly the 1,000+ post thread was lost). Or the example posted above where the developers didn't even know there was a bug in the drop system that has been around since Issue 9.

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yep.

and the point i am trying to make about destroying everyones hard earned infl/inf that is sitting in bids is this, IT WILL NOT LOWER PRICES OF ANYTHING. there are other things to bid on that are not in game anymore but no one wants those removed, just the things that people are bidding on that don't exsist and haven't dropped on live servers yet. theyseem to think that that will teach the marketeers to stop flipping everything at such high prices, which we all know is not the case, but seem to forget that it is the buyer that sets the price. the AE didn't help things either. all it did was make items even more scarce and cause infl/inf to be almost worhtless.

in order for infl/inf to mean anything again we need more worthwhile sinks in the game. and destroying infl/inf by removing trivial recipes and io's is absolutely NOT the way to do it.

If that's the way you wanna look at it. Knock yourself out!

See: GAME

Anecdote == Evidence

Again, it gives them something to work for. If they want it all RIGHT NOW, then they're doomed to disappointment. PERIOD.

As someone else said earlier. Occam's Razor.

Then bid your ideal price on the stuff you want and wait for it JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.

Yup. Just because you decide to slap an arbitrary timeframe (RIGHT FRICKIN' NAO!) on things doesn't make it unfeasible.

While not QUITE what the marketing group on Freedom is doing, yeah. What the freedom group is doing is parking toons at the desirable levels and generating more stuff in those bands so they can actually bring it to market instead of seeing it sit at 60 million with none available and none sold for the last 4 months.

Yep, but you presented them as the only options. False choice is a rather dishonest argumentative style. And honestly, you can't say "most" will pick. You're simply making an argument with no facts and another argument of "you don't know people the way I do" to back you.

So you're arguing opinion and spurious quantities like "most", "lots", and "everyone". I'm arguing economic principle. If you just want to rant your opinion and not have people call you to task for it just say so.

I say let the dummies use them. Let them be blatant about it and get their precious accounts locked because they were too stupid to just play the game and had to be on BlingQuest.

That's your problem right there. Failure to realize that the situation is caused by greater demand from people who are in a position to PAY for the items in question already.

Again, if you want the stuff, work for it just like everyone else. If you don't want to do the work, you don't want it badly enough.

And those that turn to illicit means will get their accounts locked. More power to em!

Yup. And demands that the market tailor itself to your wants is nothing more than a severely overinflated sense of self-entitlement.



I will say it again, since you were too obtuse to understand it the first three dozen times it's been said.

THE
SELLER
DOES
NOT
SET
THE
SALE
PRICE
THE
BUYER
DOES


If I list a Hecatomb for 100 inf and someone buys it for 130 million, how exactly have *I* helped the poor schmuck "suck the Inf-seller's pipe"?

Hmm?

I'll wait a while while you formulate an answer. I'm patient. I can stave off death by old age for a while...

Again, you have nothing but speculation about this. See ZERO PROOF.
If you did, you'd have something the devs could actually use to filter these *BLEEP!*suckers out better.

Essentially, rather than sticking to arguments that won't advance your point, you'd rather cast aspersions that anyone who drops north of 9 figures for something must be getting it from an inf seller.

Bernie was running a Ponzi scheme. Nobody here is doing that (at least to my knowledge).

No, you'll just name-drop and try to cast the aspersion in a passive-aggressive manner.

Ah, again with the passive-aggressive aspersions.

Who said I'm laughing? Inf is merely a tool for me to further my own character development. I'd PREFER that none of it came from RMT coffers. But, seeing as I have no way to differentiate, I take what I can get.

I'm defending your perceived status quo because the alternatives that have been proposed would be horrendous and would exacerbate the problem, not ameliorate it.

Nope. You're definitely the one. And no, I won't beg your pardon for telling you so in a blunt manner.




No. No it won't. I wish it were otherwise, but it won't.

Unless you've worked in the gaming industry, less than I do.

That the problem. I HAVE thought outside the box. I've already thought through the ramifications of what you're proposing and find the end product unfeasible and insupportable.

We agree on this.

Part of the problem is people who expect to get The Good Stuff without having to work for it.

Part of the problem is a subset of the group above that, when frustrated, turn to cheats to help them get their perceived "due".


Because in some cases they ARE superior. Thus people desire them.

People purpling out a toon simply for completion's sake, regardless of the whether the sets do what they want them to do is idiocy. But it's THEIR idiocy. As I can't control it, and since they set the price of a sale, I have no say outside of this commentary here.

You missed a lot of griping about Archmage didn't you?

Simply because a group of people gripe about something doesn't mean there is something wrong.

And you've been told why your solution about capping prices won't work, yet still continue to argue it. Who's got their fingers in their ears here?

And I suggest you do your own fact-finding and stop trying to task me with proving your own point.

Ah. Again with the aspersions.

Needless to say, I understand the socio-economic pressures here. Probably at least as well as you do. My problem is that I have no control over greedy, lazy, underhanded people. And since I can't pick them out from legitimate buyers in a blind bid system, I have to take the system as I find it.

Besides the point. Simply wanting something doesn't mean you should have it handed to you on your own terms. Regardless of how intense that sense of desire is.

Pardon my skepticism.

Your post count is irrelevant. As is your attempt at self-deprecation.

Wow. A hundred? On one whole server! Woo! That must make you right? Right? That's almost a tenth of a percent of the total player base!

Again, not my problem. I don't use them. I actively encourage people NOT to use them. I have zero way of telling if a buyer is a farmer, an old-timer with lots of money, an aggressive marketeer, or an RMT'er. I have zero control over WHOM I sell to. My only control is the minimum price I'm willing to accept. I refuse to let you try to guilt me into some boneheaded plan simply because I *MIGHT* wind up with fund laundered by RMT.

Again, what you're asking for is NOT a market. It's a store.

Well, if you insist...



There. That make you feel better. More martyred?

Again, your decision to self-gimp is none of my concern.

Bull. You obviously care or you wouldn't have spent all the time you have responding to me.

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Hey, someone griped earlier about my serial posting.

Now you taste the wrath of a "War and Peace" single post!

That and being able to type 130+ wpm helps shorten it.

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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

Uruare - Your posts in this thread have been the most condescending "holier than thou" claptrap and paranoid meanderings accusing almost everyone who has purple enhancements of engaging in morally reprehensible behavior of either purchasing Inf from RMT sites or (gasp!) taking advantage of facets of the Market system to indulge their regrettable thirst for Market PvP. (Not you, of course - you are clearly above such things, since you told us so yourself).

They are also eye-glazing-over and long-winded. How many times do you need to tell us in a single post just how morally bankrupt others are while your point of view is the only true way to regard the game?

Your paranoia over RMT sites almost raises the suspicion that you are more familiar with them than you let on, but I specifically do not accuse you of using them yourself.

See? i haz a big vocabulary, too!

Well I agree that buyers are partly to blame for the prices, however when there are stacks of bids not being sold because the people placing the items for sale have placed the items for 3, 4, even 10 times the "last 5" (I'm sure we've all seen examples of this) the only way to reconcile this is to put blame on the sellers. You know, those setting the "minimum acceptable bid". People have gone to great lengths to explain why it is bad to be able to reduce that minimum acceptable bid after the fact.

So, yes, I blame both the buyers and the sellers for rampant greed.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I believe that the technical term for this is "an economy".

In all seriousness, if both buyers and sellers are responsible for pricing levels then we have exactly the market we deserve and there is no problem.

Lower prices means more availability.
If everyone worked together we'd all have purpled Warshades.

Oh great War Witch, reach down thyne holy hand and smite the evil marketeers, the flippers, and the arbitrators. Only through your mercy may the Casual Player accoutre in purple raiment. For onceth the players behold the glory of lowered prices then all may enjoy the fruits of your labor.

According to you and everyone else that doesn't agree with me, no.

There are at least forty nobodies in my talk-to-all-the-time social circle alone then. I'm an RPer that casually PVP's. If I tried, I could prooooobably find about 12x as many casual to full-time PVPers...mmm...on my server alone.

That's is a LOT OF NOBODIES d00d!


You're oblivious to the pvp set farming cartels. Though, in fairness, I don't know if they actually sell those or are just farming them for their own joyful retention and then...well, not farming them anymore. I shall ask those I can!


...Mmkay. Please don't ever go look at what powers like Headsplitter, Eviscerate and a couple of those other obscure Scrapper attacks are. I suspect your head will explode.

O'wait. We don't use those in PvP. Nothing but 6-slotted brawl with 4 damage procs and 2 hami acc-dmg's!

-_-



I'm so very glad you were here in the nick of time to tell me so. I almost thought for a minute there that I did, but you sure uh...y'know, I'm not even gonna try with this one.


You quite completely failed to read the "I dunno; too soon to tell" bit, didn't you. Skipped right over it to launch into your defense of...what, exactly? Are you a hardcore PvPer and are kneejerking in frothing defense because you think I picked on you? Clarify.


Garsh, I sure wish I know'd somethin' about them ec'nomics, but I reckon that if support for a market dwindles and buyers ain't buyin', the sellers can't -sell-!

And yeah, I'm suggesting that there's plenty of stuff to do in CoX besides tweak the build, cap the IO's out on the best-that-ever-was and then throw it in the trash 'cause of "Bored Nao, NEXT!"-itis.

Yeah, some people have seen every arc and mission and map and tree in the game both red and blueside so many times they have to suppress a yawn just to lower themselves to log in, and killed every GM, gone on every TF/SF and raid that there is, and'a so on so -on-.

I know people who've done all that. I'm sure there are scads of them I'll never meet or see; YOU COULD BE ONE OF THEM! And I'd -Totally- sympathize with, if you are, like that's all that's really left for you to do that's dynamic and interesting in the game on the mechanics and engine-related levels.

And if you're not...uh...well. Self explanatory. Go. Hunt. Kill Skulls.

And so on.



That's -a- goal, sure, and a worthy one if you do in fact want it to be the best that can possibly be. No shame nor foul in wanting that man; it -is- part of the experience you're paying to receive.

What other stuff could you do with yourself on that or maybe even any toon when his build is finished though? Is it really game-over-bored-nao when you slot that last IO and there's nothing left to respec for, no numbers left to tweak and you can't even gripe about wanting that one slot here over there anymore?

If it -is- that way for you, I'd love to hear why, actually.




Power to ya, man. Rock him up.

Working to improve my characters and the sense of accomplishment ala "A Job Well Done"; that warm fuzzy feeling I'm sure a lot of us know for a multitude of reasons; is totally cool.

I'm not encouraging setting up a vendor selling purples and PvP sets for 20k. I'm not advocating putting them on merit vendors.

I -am- stressing the need to kill the prolific marginalization of the typical player from having a real shot at having that same enjoyment without resorting to A) Grinding like machines for unreal amounts of time, B) playing Wallstreet with the markets or C) buying inf from inf sellers.

And I am stressing that need for two reasons. Firstly, because I see a lot of people that do A and will, whenever possible, do B, but find that neither are especially purposeful compared to C.

C is instant gratification. It breaks the EULA and you can get account locked permastyle for it, but the desire for those IO's isn't going to diminish. Fact: It will take months of doing A and weeks of doing B (if you're good at it, consistent and keep on it multiple times daily on several of the most lucrative fronts) to afford all the shinies you could ever want.

It'd take 20-40 minutes of C to accomplish the same.

And -neither A nor B are the problem-. C is the problem. And making A harder and longer to do only pushes more people to C. Similarly, the fact that rather few people even know B exists doesn't push them to finding out if they can do that.

Staggering market prices pushes people to C. The higher those prices go, the further out of an increasing number of peoples' 'grind tolerance' they get, but they still -want- those things.

And while some will go "Didn't need them anyway" and certain others, such as yourself as you've stated, will do however much of A they need /anyway/...you really can't dispute the fact that there are also those that will go "Meh. 16 bucks a billion? Fine, I'm in."

And -that- is the problem, because the number of people doing C isn't going to decrease just because it 'shouldn't' and they don't need those things. People want those things.

Follow the point I'm stressing here?




In an ideal gameworld, you might not have to consider relinquishing the challenge of anything for the good of anything else. When profiteers and illegal rackets start capitalizing on that challenge, something's gonna have to give somewhere.

If you want to hate something, don't hate the people that are trying to ultimately preserve the integrity and functionality of the systems you find enjoyable.

I guarantee you that if the things that currently drive the gold market in CoX were suddenly more available to people of any playstyle, the gold market would dwindle to irrelevant obscurity. There'd be no profit left to make, nobody would perceive a -need- to break the EULA to get what they want inside of sometime in 2012, and then we'd /maybe/ be able to consider having a free market.

We /all/ might very well have to accept the 'threat' of compromise to get rid of something that capitalizes egregiously and very damagingly on some stuff that is not -itself- the problem.

Knowing what I know about marketing and public relations, I know for a damn fact that the Devs are not going to just saturate the markets with things that were elsewise ultra-rare to kill the profitability of the gold market. I'm sure they'd /love/ to kill it with fire, but there are too many people that would neither understand nor accept such a change, even if it were temporary, and the cost in retention might well not justify the profit of prolonged attenability.

In short, I know what they're -not- going to do because I know what they cannot -afford- to do. I might have some experience with such matters in firsthand fashions.

However, I've also got a pretty fair idea of what -we- are going to /have/ to do if anything /they/ do is ever going to work.

We're going to have to, firstly, stop supporting the known markets in which the gold market profiteers do their business. -We-, the players. Why? Because even if the Devs come up with a sophisticated identification-and-banning schema that somehow locks in on gold sellers and buyers, it's not going to be perfect and, ultimately, it will either be a futile gesture or so heavy-handed that our forced compromise will come in the form of a patch or patches into systems that there will /be/ no argumentation upon.

Maybe some haven't noticed, but Going Rogue is a full expansion. CoX might not be 'on the up' right now, but if you follow the patterns and trends of businesses in -any- market, you'd know what Going Rogue is.

Going Rogue is them saying "We're not done yet. In fact, we're on a growth plan, not a retain-and-appease plan."

Maybe Going Rogue will generate new market saturation for them; that is doubtlessly their hope and intention, 'cause people don't just make an expansion to throw it and the market they're intending it for away.

I'm quite certain that they're going to be doing quite a lot to make sure that, when GR hits, it will be as inviting to new players as it is intriguing to old returnees and retainees alike to the best of their creative abilities and marketing mitigations such as budget and time as that they can.

So, how about we help them out since we like the game so much and do what -we- can do to kill the gold market before, y'know, they do it for us.

'Cause if they have to be the only ones doing it, we might just see purples on vendors and PvP IO's being random rolls off a PVP ticket system. Generation of those things might well be taken partially to completely out of depending on a specific form of player activity.

And who's gonna do what then? Yell on the forums about it?

I'm demonstrating how useful -that- is presently.

(Read: just about none at all, except I do feel better for having gotten it out of my system)

Ciao.

Definitely not.

Shouldn't you be off rubbing P_P's feet or something?

Ditto.

What exactly are you asking people to do here, Uruare? As far as I'm concerned, the best way that I can discourage RMTs is to not buy their wares and to encourage others to do the same. Trying to address it through some indirect method of destroying their niches on the market seems like a fool's errand to me - players themselves have demonstrated enough times that one door closing just leads to another opening, be it through farming or marketeering.

Well, I don't feel bad for that. What I do feel bad about is that by the time a new-ish player comes around to starting to eye them top-shelf IO's, they're not going to be looking at a market that gives them a lot of incentive to feel very realistically motivated to try via legitimate channels for those things.

In fairness, most of them won't know better or different and will likely assume that that's "just the way it is and has to be".

As for my morality and ethics, they're pretty firmly seated in a glad willingness to refrain from profiting egregiously off the foolishness of others, as that does not result in happy players. No, I'm no GM or Dev, and it is not my -job- to worry about player relations or public contentment here; not, at least, in any formal or implied fashion.

I perceive it as being my privilege, however, to welcome new players and to get them excited about a rather unique game. I've had the undisputable honor of falling in with groups of people that make some very serious efforts to make it even more fun for people of any playstyle to be here.

Why? 'Cause we like it here. We like our communities and we like our Devs. What I and quite a few of those I keep regular contact with do not like is the "Got mine, F-you" mindset that keeps the gold market vibrant, ensures that certain IO's will be a lol-worthy endeavor to acquire and that the only mechanical recourses in address of that will either be futile or will negatively impact everyone quite unpleasantly.

See, I'm not talking about 'goodness of soul' either. That is a tangent that you correctly attribute as being out of the framing of this context.

You're not going to convince me that respectable, operable and inviting ethics are either impossible or irrelevant, however.

Or, for that matter, unnecessary.

Mmmm. Bags of wine (*runs off to the Off-License*)

Technically you could just take a stand and just delete those purples instead. That way you'd ensure the whine-bags weren't benefitting and you could get a lovely warm glowing feeling knowing you'd shown them. You could even take screenshots of the deletions and post them here just to show everyone. That'd learn em.

I'm accusing those who play the "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" card in support of inf-seller/buyer saturated markets of being reprehensible, yes. Having purples and PVP IO's is not reprehensible, nor is acquiring them via legitimate means.


And yeah, I'm as familiar with RMT sites, practices, methods and market strategies as I can be without actually trafficking in such businesses myself. Amazing what you can learn by talking to people that are/were in such businesses, -use- such businesses, being casually inquisitive of those considering the use of such business, firing off email inquiries to sellers and market reps of such business sites and educating yourself on something before you complain about it.

I think we call that sort of behavior 'research', though since I'm likely treading on unfamiliar territory in that reference, I'll sum it up for you.

I didn't come to this forum on a kneejerk response. While it -may be inconceivable to you- that people exist that educate themselves on a topic before going "This is total crap" and saying so, I could point you in several directions to do so yourself and -you- can then tell /me/ exactly what's what about what with which market.

What I'm finding terribly tongue-in-cheek and pyrrhicly amusing is the fact that you in particular call me 'holier than thou' when you're the one that came descending from your "I'm a casual player and I've played for 5 years and have almost no 50's" attempts at countermanding a non-existent threat on the basis of informing me that I do not speak for you.

Was I trying to speak for you? Really? You might just as rationally take offense at my stating that 1+1 =2 by declaring yourself to be 1 and that I have no right to tell you what you're part of.

I've already stated in a prior post my retraction of /all/ market flipping being reprehensible. It isn't. Poor choice of wording and haste brought me to mis-representing an entirety when, in fact, it is only a specific section of that entirety that contributes to "The Problem".

As for being 'holier than thou', I don't buy inf, I understand quite well how markets work, I flat refuse to rip people off by staging market escalations and encouraging amplified scarcity of the most high-demand varieties of saleable game content available, and if that means I've got a little halo over my head, good for me.

And yes, your vocabulary is very relevant.

Your assumptions and insinuations say more about you than they ever can or could about me.

Ponder that. I'll be over here, being unappologetically ethical and opinionated.

You have that backwards.


Drugs are bad. M'kaaay?

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I'd ask the flippers to take a more concientious perspective of their markets and avoid those that inf buyers traffic in most heavily. Unfortunately, those are the lucrative markets where impulse/greed purchases are the most profitable, so it's an unrealistic basis at the functional level.

But still, I had to throw it out there as with my occasionally scattered reasoning for asking it, as I'm not quite deluded enough to think anyone's going to actually listen to such a thing, or change their practices just 'cause some random nobody on a forum illustrated some such practices as being part of "The Problem".


I'd ask those considering buying inf, or who have in the past and simply didn't get caught, to stop. The markets you're supporting, or are considering supporting, contribute in fundamental ways to making the most desirable saleable game content unrealistically expensive for those that do not engage in extreme activities or similar practices.

I'd ask those that do not like the market prices as they are to do what they can to refrain from supporting those markets. Prices tend to drop when sales dwindle on those things, as some have pointed out in this thread.

I'd ask everybody that's terrified of unacceptable changes to do what they can to help people not perceive a need to lean on inf sellers to 'get anywhere in a timely manner'. Nobody wants to feel like they're wasting their time when easier/more effective methods are available to accomplish the same goal.

There is, however, no way to compete legitimately with the instant-gratification inf sellers provide in terms of farming (even grey-area AE farming) or flipping. They are, however, things that -can- be done, and done legitimately.

Teach people how. Put teams together and invite people to get in on drop farms in PI or Grandville's TV arc, or run scanner/paper missions with people. Invite a newbie along whenever you can, do stuff with them, throw them a bone if they're cool and give them direction.

Lots of SG's on Virtue, where I'm at, (And likely elsewhere) go to great lengths to help their own out, be it with badge hunting or loot collecting when it comes time to want to IO out to merit hoarding and whatnot. I cannot comment on what transpires on other servers, but where /I'm/ at, we need more of that.

It exists within SG/VG's, but a lot of people are still 'going it alone', don't know how to farm effectively, don't feel like they know anybody well enough to ask for help, and the list goes on.

If anyone wants to combat inf sellers, the best way I know of and have personally seen to keep people away from them is to help them get what they want via the legitimate means.

Start an SG or VG that's all about helping eachother get stuff. If you're into RP as some are, make RP events out of helping people get their goodies.

It's all stuff that people already -do- in various ways and places, some more, some less, but more of all of it would be a big step in the direction of cacking the gold market.

Similarly, it would be a really big step if more people took the time to inform themselves of how the inf-sellers really work. A lot of people I talk to, including on this very forum thread, seem to be of the impression that they don't do a lot of business and that prices have dropped 'cause they can't sell anything.

The opposite is true, despite common marketing standards that illustrate price drops with demand drops. They're not dropping due to lack of demand; they're broadening availability and capitalizing on ability to do this and still turn a profit thanks to their abilities to maintain purple and PVP IO markets in the stratosphere.

Those I've spoken with that claimed to be involved in such markets made it pointedly clear that AE farming the henchies is nice...if you're small-time and selling inf for hundredths of a penny to resellers. The real money is in PVP IO farming and stacking the markets while lowering costs to generate more business, thus creating a growth cycle.

They sell 1b for 16 bucks. The buyer takes their 1b and buys...what with it? SO's, thus destroying currency? No. IO's. There's nothing else to buy with that much money.

Which IO's? A comparatively negligible amount gets spent on bulk IO's; the uncommons and rares you can fill a toon up on for 500-700 mil. The rest gets spent on purples and PVP IO's, and you'll get nowhere in those markets with 1b. They've made sure of that. You'll have to grind like a machine or go Wallstreet Tycoon on the lucrative markets (which helps them keep the prices locked in waaaay up there!), or? Buy more inf.

They farm PVP IO's and purples as a mainstay. It's really all they've got left anymore that will generate the inf they need to maintain their supplies. That's where the bling is, especially since their own market flippers ration out the supply of PVP IO's to artificially maintain a starvation-scale demand. Drop rates on those are crap.

Now, that could be countered by some wide-spread farming and selling of PVP IO's, but most of us aren't really interested in spending 16 hours a day doing nothing but lurking in FFA matches and systematically killing specifically fast-kill toons on alt accounts.

So that isn't gonna happen. Most of us lack the motivation and the means to do it on the scale they're doing it anyway, as most of us do not have the number of accounts a single human gold seller manages and operates in such endeavors.

According to the sources that've been chatty (it was hard to find chatty sources on this, but dangit I did it!), there are very few one-time buyers. Once they get a taste of how easy it is to click-click, enter digits and BAM, have the shinies, they'll be back.

So, they've got no reason to -not- lower their prices when repeat purchasing is the mainstay and the established trend, and moreover itself even more encouraged when it can be done so cheaply.

The only tools we've got to keep people from falling into that market are to get people involved in things that directly help them get what they want while having fun doing it.

'Cause thathere are a couple of things you can't buy with inf in any lasting manner that people do value; fun and friends.

And for the "Got Mine, F-you" crowd, I'm very uncertain about either.

That works out to about 480 people. The last numbers we got for player population were in the neighborhood of 125,000 players.

That's about .384%. So for every one person you have producing PVP IOs, you have AT LEAST 260 people who aren't, and a good chunk of those want PVP IOs too.

Adjust for the fact that not all PVPers are looking to produce IOs at the fastest possible rate.
Adjust for the stupid-low drop rate of the IOs themselves.
Adjust for the fact that at least some of the product is being consumed internally (people who generate PVP IOs are using them themselves)
Adjust for the fact that not all of the PVP IOs are considered "valuable".
Plus whatever factors I don't have time to think about right now.

Is it REALLY any wonder that they're as rare and expensive as they are?


Squirtgun in a firestorm.

The "typical" player (whatever that supposedly is) isn't being marginalized. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to simply pick up extremely rare recipies/IOs for little more than the price of a piece of common salvage.


No. Nothing "pushes people to RMT" other than greed. The prices on the market are a function of how the market works. What you're trying to claim is something along the lines of "The prices of super-high-end sports cars pushes people to rob banks".

Obviously not true.
You work towards your goal or you do without. One of the few truly plain and simple things out there.

Yep. And those are the ones who'll get their account locked and have to completely do without their toon.

No, it'll decrease because people start publicly, messily losing accounts.

I understand what you're attempting to say. It's just wrong.

And more, because obtaining massive quantities of "ultra-rare" items is now trivialized, it removes the impetus for some people to continue playing.

No, we DON'T. Vichy? Much?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

In short, BITE ME. If you want to avoid the market over something neither you, nor I, nor any other non-dev player can control KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. Stop casting aspersions at me and others who use the market because some impatient jack-hole MIGHT decide to use RMT and the money would flow back to us.

Oh yeah. You "talked with them" before coming to your moral decision? Okay...

Hate to say it kiddo, but yeah. Yeah you did.

Yet you began the post I'm responding to now by DOING THE SAME DAMN THING!

What you're practicing your "ethics" in the same way the Westboro Baptist Church practices theirs.

So pardon my blatant disgust.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.