New tactic for RMTers

Sighting Confirmation
The first one I saw was when the /petition system as down. I figured that they - the RMTs - had a window of opportunity to get away with their nefarious behavior.

And yes, in Atlas on Justice - in WWs and then I followed the character into the AE building in Atlas because I wanted to see what they were up to and use the /batsmash on the scum - which provoked /e evillaugh and /e dance from the RMT'r. It is clear they know what they are dong is wrong.

I used the ignore spammer function to ignore the spammer. As the /petition system was down I went to the website and lodged a complaint there.

Luckily the petitions systems are back up. At least I hope they are still back up! http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=207288

Reporting RMT Spammers
Remember using the Ignore Spammer should be followed by a /petition.

You can ignore spammer by left clicking on their name in the chat window and picking the Ignore Spammer option.

/petition [charactername]
which includes why you are petitioning : examples::
[charactername] on [server] [side] related to @[charactername] said [copy] [paste] [textfromchatwindow]
-or
[charactername] on [server] [side] related to @[charactername] is an RMT spammer for [webiste]
I'm using [] to indicate variables and operations.
Click on the Harassment/Conduct button at the top and then send.

You can get the RMT's global (aka @[handle]) in a couple of ways. I use the Add Note feature that you can get from clicking on their name in the chat window. You can also get their global handle by typing /getglobalname [charactername]

Report RMT spammers by using both Ignore Spammer and /petition
Before this gets out of hand again - yes, you need to do both :: ignore spammer and /petition. Regardless of what any other players end up posting here, it is clear from the past that the DEVs want us to use both the ignore spammer and /petition functions.
I can guarantee that a Red Name isn't going to show up for a while to post in regards to doing both these steps. When/if they do they will say they need both. When a thread like this pops up it might take days or weeks for the DEVs to post (if they post) to verify the procedure. That is always what has ended up happening in the past; 1) some players posting that both aren't necessary and 2) If/when the DEVs finally post the indicate that we need to do both.
Some may think they are helping by saying only to do one or the other, but all they are actually doing is helping the RMT spammers avoid being banned or, at the very least, slowing down the process.
This goes on pretty much every time this subject is brought up.

So if you are against the RMT spammers, don't complain about doing both steps. Do both steps and let's get them out of the City.
They faster these two steps start happening from more players, the faster something will happen to stop the activity.

Do your part to help stomp out RMT spammers in the City.
They are villains and they need to be stopped!

RMT Spammer Behavior
Huh? now why would an RMT spammer think that their most profitable area would be in Atlas in the AE building or in WW?
I can conjecture on this, but I think it is pretty clear actually.
Just ask yourself why players that would be in either location would be more willing to break the EULA to purchase illegal in-game inf in the AE in Atlas or the WW in Atlas as opposed to other locations in the City?
I really think that the DEVs need to be asking themselves this same question.

Okay so Why were you at the Scene of the Crime?!
Oh, why was I there?

I have to admit, with bases on most servers, I have characters parked in the zones used to pay base rent because I'm a bit lazy at times.
I was actually solo-ing an AE story arc mission with my character in this instance as well, and it makes me feel bad about using the AE building in Atlas.
The problem is that it shouldn't. I should be able to run my own AE arc anywhere in the City that I want to if my suggestions aren't taken into account in regards to this matter. Those suggestions would have impacted my ability to use the AE there, but it would have also impacted the reason that the RMT spammers are there.
I get critical a lot, but it is because I love this game. The DEVs have implemented not only some things that I have suggested but tons of things that other players have suggested.
However, I do feel that those suggestions would have curbed this kind of behavior as it is occurring now.

It doesn't make me feel bad about being lazy and parking characters there to pay base rent.
Zoning does take time, and it's easier just to run across down from my last Day Job parking spot than it does to zone into the 0-bus, to Atlas, and back to where ever. I already admitted I'm lazy.
However, this chance occurrence that I logged into a character in Atlas to pay the once monthly base rent and running into an RMT spammer seems to indicate that this is an RMT hotspot.
I'm glad I logged in and caught the RMT'r in the act. I always take time to use both steps to ignore spammer and petition RMT spammers.

If it were only a small minority of players who took advantage of Mito farming, do you honestly believe the developers would have taken such swift and stern measures regarding "AE PL'ing" up to and including banning accounts?

Of course no one knows an exact number, but I will guarantee it was a lot more than what you think.

Both of these things are indicative that my point has gone past you. I don't support RMT. I don't necessarily think that those that took advantage of easy xp wouldn't take advantage of cheap legal influence, in fact I agree they probably would but you can't prove that they would.

The second part of this quote you put words in my mouth... I NEVER, EVER said "I think NCSoft should"... I said it would likely be the only way that RMT would actually stop. I could also say that the death penalty is the only guarantee that a criminal will not become a repeat offender but that doesn't mean I support it. Beyond that I never said it was a fact... I've stated REPEATEDLY that it's all speculation and theory. Both sides of the argument are and you've proven that by saying you can't provide 100% concrete proof... neither can I.

You're also arguing the wrong point... you're approaching it as if I think they should do it... which again... I never said. I was simply speculating that it would likely (in theory) stop RMT, because if you could get it cheap legally, why would you violate the EULA? NEVER did I say it would definitely stop it nor did I say I wanted it.

Ultimately let me say all I think you really want to hear. I agree that legal RMT would have a negative impact on the game (don't know that I'd go as far as to say shut it down as some have implied), and hell I never even said that I DIDN'T agree I just said it couldn't be proven one way or the other. Playing devil's advocate I simply pointed out that we'll never know for certain unless NCSoft does it.

Nobody here wants it to happen and we all know it is extremely unlikely that it will. All we can do is speculate, come up with theories and debate over what would happen if it did but regardless of how well a point is argued nothing is fact until it happens.

I didn't say "I think it's 20%" I said "let's say it is" I pulled a number out of the sky.

Having said that I'm sure you're right... however...

You can't make a guarantee without proof.

So, prove it.

That's what you and Miss_Freeze_NA don't seem to get. I'm not disagreeing with the issues at hand... I'm just saying the effects of something that isn't happening can't be proven unless it does happen. We can only guess.

I'm out for now... please again don't any think I'm trying to argue. Well I'm debating but honestly I enjoy it lol.

Take care.

No question, I think it would hurt the game. But I think Radubadu is correct in asserting that we don't know for a fact that it would definitely kill the game (I'm assuming "kill" here means deplete the player base enough that NCsoft discontinues the game completely). While that might indeed happen, I hope that enough players would resist the temptation for easy influence to keep the game alive. But I'm sure we'll never find out, because NCsoft isn't stupid enough to do it something like this.

True, in the scientific sense; we don't have a control MMO so we can sell currency in one but not the other.

However, the absence of a rigorous proof does not render us intellectually defenseless; we can still form reasonable postulates and attack and defend them. This may prove one point or another, in the sense of "prove" that a court of law uses.

( I find "You can't prove it" is usually the argument of someone who has no other defenses . )

Likewise, I find reducing RMT to zero to be a very rigorous definition of success. If we cut RMT trading by 90% from its peak [whatever and whenever that was; I have no measurements of it] I would call that beating the spammers.

Personally, I've kept one of my friends from buying inf from RMT spammers; I consider that to be a small but measurable contribution to quality of life in this game.

hmm... I think it's pretty clear, too. I think the answer is NEW players. But I'm guessing you mean something different so maybe it's not so clear.

Perhaps someone that is already actively breaking the EULA and Rules of Conduct?

This is seriously all I was trying to say. That and while yes there would be consequences it might make the problem go away. I'm not saying the consequences would be better.

"You can't prove it" is simply my way of pointing out when something is stated as a matter of fact when in reality, it is not.

Not trying to resurrect the debate but I was thinking and have a semi related question.

Are the spammers trial accounts? If so why not just limit their methods of communication? I know that might limit those on a trial account even more than they are (not sure what the specifics on trial restrictions are) but I imagine it would help.

If they're "real" accounts do the RMTers seriously pay the $20 every time an account gets banned?

Contrary to the impression I apparently gave I do not want to see RMT of any kind... I've just become complacent with the fact that it's probably never going away.

Actually, we do have MMOs that sell in-game currency. There's an entire sector of the MMO industry based around it (Free Realms; Mabinogi; Silk Road Online; many, many others). The model is very financially sound (over 1,000,000 people play Silk Road Online; Habbo Hotel's population dwarfs ours). In fact, the MMO industry in general is heading in this direction (with companies like Cryptic and Sony Online Entertainment leading the charge).

I don't want to see Influence sold in this game, but everyone who wants to buy it already does, that's the reality, so if there is any damage to be done, it's been done. Only, NCsoft isn't getting the profits. The gold sellers are.

I don't know about Cryptic, but for the games that SOE sells gold in, IIRC it's only available on a series of servers you may not transfer off of to "non-selling" servers. The other games are all Micro-transaction funded, as well, aren't they?

Interesting. I downloaded and tried a free to play MMO a while ago (can't remember the name of it to save my life but it was basically a WoW clone) they sold in game items for real money which is obviously how they made profit since you didn't have to buy the game or pay a monthly fee, not sure if they offered in game currency or not. I never bought anything and quit without progressing too far as I was looking for something to replace WoW and it was too similar but not as good.

Anyway, while I don't want to see RMT in CoX I wouldn't be opposed to it in future MMOs as long as it is as Raj mentioned with SOE's games where it is server specific that way you could choose whether or not you wanted to take part in an economy like that.

On the flip side that raises the question... do the people on the non RMT servers buy from 3rd parties to have an advantage over everyone else?

This. Especially the last part.

It does not take a degree in particle physics or rocket science to understand that if cheap inf were made available, a great deal of the game population would take advantage of it. This would, in turn, directly impact those players who would not take advantage of it, thereby hurting the game.

I've already agreed that NCSoft supported RMT would likely hurt CoX. However, Daemodand's post does suggest otherwise. Interesting that you seemed to focus on what would support your point of view while looking over something that negates it.

I don't want to see RMT in CoX, but the games that Daemondand listed and their success does indicate that it is highly plausible for MMOs to offer such a service without hurting the game.

Edit: Let me also point out that I was not using "you can't prove it" as a defense. I'm not defending RMT. There just isn't sufficient evidence to support either side of what impact it would have on CoX. Personally I hope we never find out.

Edit2: I also don't understand why people use RMT in this game anyway... I'm about to hit 50 on my first toon and half his powers are already filled with set IOs. That's with me keeping him in new IOs every 5 lvls until he hit lvl 40. If there's anything easier than actually leveling in this game, it's making inf.

Pot, meet kettle.

I could give a hoot less over what other games do. What works for one game does not necessarily mean it will work for CoX, which is the game we are discussing here.

A separate server where RMT is available would need an independent marketplace so as not to impact the other "non RMT" servers.

You're misinterpreting my point. I don't want CoX to do what other games are doing in terms of RMT (or anything really)... but the fact that these other games are doing it and are successful makes it plausible that it could work in CoX. Look at any other business and you will see very similar things... one company tries something risky, it works, other companies follow suit.

But before you jump to the conclusion of me saying it's plausible meaning that I want it to happen just stop and realize that I'm looking at it objectively rather than the frustrated point of view that you seem to have concerning RMT. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated but I think it keeps you from being objective.

There are three points of view concerning RMT... those that get angry or frustrated about it (you), those that have accepted it as an issue present in every MMO that will likely never go away and are indifferent about it (me) and those that use/support it (nobody that's going to admit it here). I used to be you on this... when I played WoW I would go out of my way to report every spam I got. I even went as far as to report the name of every toon corpse (about 20) that was used to spell out a specific website in orgrimmar (a high traffic area hordeside kinda like Atlas) and the next day they were back with different names. Eventually I gave up and just accepted the random emails and /tells and corpse spelling as part of the game, so when I came to see it in CoX it didn't matter to me and actually, I see it much less in CoX.

Anyway don't think I support RMT, I used to fight the fight all the time... I just gave up as it's pointless to get upset over it or to think that your reporting a name is going to make a huge impact. It's the same thing as fishbots in FFXI which I'm not going to go into detail about but anyone that played it knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Also, in the hypothetical situation that NCSoft pursues RMT I would assume that they would have the foresight to realize that they would need a separate marketplace for RMT servers.

The more you bring this up, Radubadu, the more you're making it sound like you support the RMTers. You've been giving excuses for why it's ok that they exist, and even trying to find ways where they could co-exist in the game without harming anyone.

Do you want them to go away, or don't you?

If that's the impression I've given then I've not expressed myself clearly enough or your comprehension skills are less than stellar. If it's the first then I apologize. I'd like for them to go away... I've just accepted the fact that it's very unlikely to happen, why is that so hard to understand? My acceptance of their existence doesn't mean I think it's ok it means I just don't see the pointing in fighting it anymore.

I've said nothing to the effect that it's ok that they exist just that I've accepted that they do so if you could refrain from putting words in my mouth that'd be appreciated. Never have I said "I'd love to see RMT be legal" or "I wish NCSoft would incorporate RMT". I've also given no excuses for why it's ok they exist so again... don't put words in my mouth.

This all started because I said IF NCSoft did incorporate it then the 3rd party RMT would likely go away... I didn't say I wanted it to or that I thought NCSoft should, I simply stated a cause and effect scenario as indicated by the words "if" and "then". Again, what's so hard to understand about that?

As previously stated I understand the frustration people have concerning RMT. The fact that I don't get worked up about it and can express an objective point of view or a "what if" scenario does NOT mean I'm lobbying for it to be a normal part of the game. If that's what you're interpreting any of my posts as then you need to work on your comprehension and logic.

Since it seems impossible to have a conversation about this without people jumping to conclusions I'm done, I draw the line at having people put words in my mouth. Re-read my posts and if you still think I'm supporting RMT then you just don't understand where I'm coming from and we will have to agree to disagree, but let me make this abundantly clear... I'm not supporting RMT.

Sure you are. You're saying that NCSoft should get into RMT because it might get rid of other RMT companies. RMT is RMT, regardless of who is doing it.

biggest difference between Official and "rogue" RMT is NCSoft would spam us.

Again with putting words in my mouth.

Please direct me to the post where I said NCSoft should... I can't seem to find it.

Yes, I said that IF they did then that MIGHT be the effect. I NEVER SAID THEY SHOULD!