You did summon the BANNZZ0RZ, right?
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I've not witnessed this yet but sadly there's likely nothing that can be done about it and it will probably only get worse. And since when did they take away the ability for them to send emails? I still get at least one daily, or are you referring to the ability to change the options to only get emails from friends? I haven't changed that because I have no problem opening my email and just clicking spam. In fact I prefer that because at least it helps them id who the RMTers are.
I appreciate any effort the devs put in to stop it but honestly, I'm starting to think the only real solution to RMT from 3rd party companies is for devs to offer the same service cheaper. There are arguments for both sides of that debate that I'm honestly on the fence with. Even if it were something offered by the devs I wouldn't take advantage of it but at least there would be no more spam because even if to counter RMTers lowered their prices I would bet that most players would pay slightly more to still be in line with the EULA.
I have no idea what legal loopholes keep RMT sites running but until there's a way to close them I don't think it will ever get any better.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
I have no idea what legal loopholes keep RMT sites running but until there's a way to close them I don't think it will ever get any better. |
It's that the RMT sites are run out of China and assorted Southeast Asian nations where nobody cares that some people are scamming rich people for cash.
@Quantum Evil Rad/Rad Corruptor
Making the world safe for maleficent particles since 2004.
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FYI... scams are run everywhere in the world, not just China and Southeast Asia.|
Originally Posted by FizRep
It's that the RMT sites are run out of China and assorted Southeast Asian nations where nobody cares that some people are scamming rich people for cash.
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Make use of the in-game /ignore feature and turn off your email. That goes a long way toward avoiding RMT spam.
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| I appreciate any effort the devs put in to stop it but honestly, I'm starting to think the only real solution to RMT from 3rd party companies is for devs to offer the same service cheaper. |
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This. Personally, I haven't received a single /tell or email since the update to include turning off email. Ignoring them and not using their service is going to do a whole lot more to hurt their business than anything the devs will come up with.|
Originally Posted by Miss_Freeze_NA
Make use of the in-game /ignore feature and turn off your email. That goes a long way toward avoiding RMT spam.
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| Right, and kill their own game in the process. |
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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I do too for the most part but, as I stated there are both sides to the argument. I'm not going to get into the other side as I don't want it to seem like I'm rallying for the idea, frankly RMT doesn't really bother me. I don't use it and the people spamming while a minor annoyance aren't going to ruin the game for me as long as I've been playing MMOs I've just learned to accept that they are unfortunately a "normal" part of them.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
I agree the idea of NCSoft selling inf for CoX is a terrible idea.
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Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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Choosing between using the current tools available to ignore RMT'ers and not using their service and having NCSoft kill their own game, the choice is kinda a no brainer.
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
I do too for the most part but, as I stated there are both sides to the argument.
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Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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Isn't whether or not it would kill the game just speculation? I'll give you that it's a safe assumption. I don't want it to happen, I'm simply saying that's likely the only way that RMT from 3rd party companies would stop and even then it wouldn't be guaranteed.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Choosing between using the current tools available to ignore RMT'ers and not using their service and having NCSoft kill their own game, the choice is kinda a no brainer.
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Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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Beyond the fact that game developers generally consider RMT "cheating" (and against their EULA)...|
Originally Posted by Radubadu
Isn't whether or not it would kill the game just speculation?
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Just one example;
In order for NCSoft to put RMT out of business on CoX, NCSoft would need to sell inf for less than the RMT outfits sell it for. RMT companies could not compete with the cheaper pricing, so they leave and go to another game. This step alone already "de-values" the in-game currency and directly impacts the economy.
Meanwhile, the sale of cheap NCSoft inf leads to higher numbers of players being able to afford buying it, so more inf is bought by players and players buy more "high end" items (eg. Purple Recipes/Rare salvage etc.) from in-game auction houses. At the most basic level, NCSoft would be making everything considered "high value" in the game meaningless because of the easily available cheap influence - meaning; it's too easy to "buy it now". This eliminates the purpose behind "rare" items and the intended goal of having something to work toward.
Making the game "too easy" in this respect means players will get bored more easily and leave for another MMO. There is no challenge to it anymore. Any amount NCSoft would make from the sale of inf would not matter if their playerbase didn't stick around.
Now, what is easier?
You as a player type "/ignore RMTer" and go about your merry way? Or NCSoft developing a method of selling inf for their own game, having to rework drop and raise pricing on all other inf sinks in the game to compensate for the new influx of cheap inf?
The existing tools you have available are highly effective in preventing you from seeing/receiving RMT spam already. You just need to use them.
My point has been highly misunderstood. I don't want legal RMT. I wish RMT weren't an issue at all.
I'm only saying two things.
1. "Legal" RMT is likely the only way 3rd party RMT would ever go away.
2. Saying "legal" RMT would destroy CoX is a theory, a good one YES but we'll never know. You can cite real world economical examples that would support the theory but that's still all it is until proven which (despite the impression I've apparently given) I hope never is.
The second would be (again in theory) a result of the first. I'm not saying it should happen. I'm just saying it would be the only way for 3rd party RMT to stop... I didn't say there wouldn't consequences.
Of course clicking on spam and using the ignore feature is the better option over legal RMT, but it's not going to make it go away.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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You don't know that. The devs would have to sell that inf for so low an amount in order to keep RMT'ers from competing it wouldn't be worth their while to do so anyway.|
Originally Posted by Radubadu
1. "Legal" RMT is likely the only way 3rd party RMT would ever go away.
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| 2. Saying "legal" RMT would destroy CoX is a theory, a good one YES but we'll never know. You can cite real world economical examples that would support the theory but that's still all it is until proven which (despite the impression I've apparently given) I hope never is. |
The 100% guarantee for getting rid of RMT you are looking for is;
1. Don't use their service
2. Play a game where there is no in-game economy or anything of value
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Email can be shut off completely, or set to only receive from friends and SG members.
Also, we still have the "Ignore as Spammer" right-click. This ignores the miscreant, and flags him to the Game Moderators. They investigate, and bring the ban-hammer, as appropriate.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
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Ignoring them and not using their service will go a long way toward you being less bothered by it. So long as any MMO has an economy and items of ingame value that players are willing to pay for, there will be RMT.
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
Of course clicking on spam and using the ignore feature is the better option over legal RMT, but it's not going to make it go away.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
You don't know that. The devs would have to sell that inf for so low an amount in order to keep RMT'ers from competing it wouldn't be worth their while to do so anyway.
Actually, the way I read the example it was dealing with de-valuing "rare" in-game items and having to rework drop rates/inf sinks to compensate for the influx of cheap inf. Those are guaranteed to happen if the devs make cheap inf readily available to the playerbase. Too easy a game = players get bored faster and quit game. The 100% guarantee for getting rid of RMT you are looking for is; 1. Don't use their service 2. Play a game where there is no in-game economy or anything of value |
Ultimately it doesn't matter... everything discussed is still speculation because regardless of how safe an assumption is or how sound a theory is or how many examples you provide to support it, that's still all it is, it doesn't become fact until it's proven. Regardless of how improbable it might be I know a few (including myself) and I'm sure there're more people that wouldn't use RMT even if it were offered by NCSoft because the idea of paying real money for fake money is absurd. My first point in my prior post is even admittedly speculation, hence the word likely and not guaranteed. So let's not debate over what we'll never know.
Also, while I agree with your 100% guarantee the problem isn't me using the service, I don't and I doubt anyone (or very few if so) on the forums does. But as long as there are MMOs, there will always be RMT, assuming (regarding your second point) that there's an in-game economy.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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While I also think it would be a terrible idea for NCsoft to sell influence, I wouldn't use the service even if it were offered--I prefer earn game rewards, not buy them. So offering such a service would not make the game easier for me and would not therefore make me bored and want to quit. |
Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Too easy a game = players get bored faster and quit game.
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I'm sure plenty of players would use the service and most would end up quitting for the reasons you describe. Certainly enough to hurt the game, but enough to kill it? I hope we never learn to answer to that. I think we can all agree that this "cure" would be worse than the disease.
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Actually it would be better to use "/ignorespammer <name>". This ignores the RMT and sends a flag to the GMs. Additionally, I'd /petition them, but then again that is what the community reps have asked us on behalf of the GMs to do.
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Originally Posted by Miss_Freeze_NA
Make use of the in-game /ignore feature and turn off your email. That goes a long way toward avoiding RMT spam.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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If NCSoft sold cheap inf, players (not all) would buy it. Human nature generally tends to follow the path of least resistance, so if inf is cheap, players will buy it because it is less time consuming than earning it the traditional way. |
Originally Posted by Radubadu
Ultimately it doesn't matter... everything discussed is still speculation because regardless of how safe an assumption is or how sound a theory is or how many examples you provide to support it, that's still all it is, it doesn't become fact until it's proven.
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Just look at all the posts whining about Mito farming when that was still possible - people farmed them because its easier and faster XP than "grinding" the normal way. That is not speculation, that is fact.
The buying/selling of inf would be no different.
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Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
While I also think it would be a terrible idea for NCsoft to sell influence, I wouldn't use the service even if it were offered--I prefer earn game rewards, not buy them. So offering such a service would not make the game easier for me and would not therefore make me bored and want to quit.
I'm sure plenty of players would use the service and most would end up quitting for the reasons you describe. Certainly enough to hurt the game, but enough to kill it? I hope we never learn to answer to that. I think we can all agree that this "cure" would be worse than the disease. |
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That's exactly backwards. You're not creating more Purple Recipes, you're creating more inf, which people use to buy the same number of Purple Recipes. Prices will go up. Things will become less affordable for people who don't buy inf and don't farm rare items. Everyone except inf-customers becomes less happy (and even the inf-customers feel like they have to pay real money to compete.) | Meanwhile, the sale of cheap NCSoft inf leads to higher numbers of players being able to afford buying it, so more inf is bought by players and players buy more "high end" items (eg. Purple Recipes/Rare salvage etc.) from in-game auction houses. |
You can't kill 100% of RMT operations, but you can make it harder and harder for them to make money.
They've already lowered the cost of a billion inf from $60 [last summer, maybe? Not sure] to $15- they're having trouble finding buyers.
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So you think you're a hero, huh.
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The first is a fact. I'll give you that, but we'll likely never know how many people took advantage of that. Say it was only 20% of the playerbase, then according to your logic only 20% would buy influence if made legal.|
Originally Posted by Miss_Freeze_NA
Just look at all the posts whining about Mito farming when that was still possible - people farmed them because its easier and faster XP than "grinding" the normal way. That is not speculation, that is fact.
The buying/selling of inf would be no different. |
The second is a theory, based on a fact yes, but that doesn't make it anything more than an educated theory, you cited a specific example to support your theory but it doesn't prove it as fact. Your suggestion that it's human nature and that it happened regarding xp farming doesn't PROVE that it would happen in terms of people getting influence. Again, you can cite examples, similar instances and even human nature all you want... it's not a fact until it happens, which it hopefully won't.
Edit: Let me again reiterate that I do not want to see legal RMT. Rereading my own post I realize that it sounds very argumentative. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that it can't be proven unless it happens that's the difference between a theory and a fact. It is admittedly a VERY good theory but it hasn't and hopefully won't be proven.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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I'd bet it was way more than 20% of the playerbase.
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
The first is a fact. I'll give you that, but we'll likely never know how many people took advantage of that. Say it was only 20% of the playerbase, then according to your logic only 20% would buy influence if made legal.
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Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
As long as there is a way to communicate between players in this game, and some players remain painfully ignorant of how ridiculously easy it is to make inf in this game without resorting to RMT sites, RMT will continue.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Honestly I wouldn't know, it was before I started playing but that's just it, you "bet" because nobody knows. I was simply pointing out that while yes some people did that the logic that those same people would use RMT and therefore wreck the game is flawed, for several reasons but that's one.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
I'd bet it was way more than 20% of the playerbase.
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Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
Quote:
Well, on the one hand it's 'how easy it is to make,' and on the other, 'what all there is to spend it on." INF still, honestly, doesn't play a big role in this game. Yes, I know, Wentworths/BM, etc. but there's nothing there that prevents you from progressing on a character if you lack it. |
Originally Posted by macskull
As long as there is a way to communicate between players in this game, and some players remain painfully ignorant of how ridiculously easy it is to make inf in this game without resorting to RMT sites, RMT will continue.
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There's no "gear," really. You don't have to buy powers. You don't have to pay to travel anywhere, you don't have to pay to upgrade powers (yes, you can buy SOs, they also drop,and really are pretty cheap,) you don't have to pay to advance "tiers" of anything - I'm surprised, quite frankly, that they still bother with this game. RMTs are a pretty low-visibility group here.
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And even if it were "only" 20% of the playerbase taking advantage of buying cheap inf, that is 20% too many IMO. You also can't seem to grasp how even if it were "only" 20%, that would still have a large impact on other players. I'll also bet your estimate of 20% taking advantage of Mito farming is far too low a figure.|
Originally Posted by Radubadu
The first is a fact. I'll give you that, but we'll likely never know how many people took advantage of that. Say it was only 20% of the playerbase, then according to your logic only 20% would buy influence if made legal.
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| The second is a theory, based on a fact yes, but that doesn't make it anything more than an educated theory, you cited a specific example to support your theory but it doesn't prove it as fact. Your suggestion that it's human nature and that it happened regarding xp farming doesn't PROVE that it would happen in terms of people getting influence. |
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| Again, you can cite examples, similar instances and even human nature all you want... it's not a fact until it happens, which it hopefully won't. |
Perhaps you are better off playing a single player FPS where RMT will not bother you so much.
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| That's exactly backwards. You're not creating more Purple Recipes, you're creating more inf, which people use to buy the same number of Purple Recipes. Prices will go up. Things will become less affordable for people who don't buy inf and don't farm rare items. Everyone except inf-customers becomes less happy (and even the inf-customers feel like they have to pay real money to compete.) |
To clarify, right now it is difficult for many players to afford (for arguments sake) ~500 mil for a purple recipe. Allowing for the purchase of cheap inf makes that ~500 mil much easier to come by... which in turn would cause prices to go up and hurt the players who do not buy inf, as you pointed out.
I was hanging out under Atlas (of all places) and this lowby ran past us using local chat for spamming a RMT site.
My question is... has anyone else seen this?
Since they took away email from these people they resort to using local.
"every defender needs to fight. I don't care if you have to use BRAWL!"