Have Invention Recipe alternate choice from Knock back to Knock down
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-01-28 07:16 in Suggestions and Ideas
There's really no such thing as knock-down. There is only Knockback with a mag or less than 1. As such, to get what you want, you'd actually have to have another set that was equivalent, but had no knockback slotting at all, since any increase in KB would likely push the KB mag to over 1, causing KB.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
So what is the issue being addressed?
It is constantly mentioned the game is balanced around SOs.
IOs are optional, let alone IO sets with bonuses. If I am reading this right, you want the bonuses of an IO set, but not what else the IOs also bring, KB in this case.
Don't you think that this was taken into account when the set was designed with its bonuses to make them attractive/desirable?
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considering that the only sets that offer any kb alteration are the kb sets, you shouldn't have any problem as long as you don't slot them for the kb. stick to just the damage io sets. now, some npc's still will get knockbacked but oh well.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Hi:
If I understand right, many melee powers that have Knock -back/down characteristics becomes solely knock-back when you place an enhancement/invention with Knock-back. This much is ok. But when I use an invention set, it may have a Knock Back recipe in it, and to ge the full effect of the set, you turn your knock-down power into knock-back. As a melee type, the knock-back is annoying for I have to go chasing after them. It would be nice, if those recipe sets had a second version where there is a choice of knock-back or knock-down recipies. Hugs Stormy |
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Suggestions regarding knockback and knockdown pop up frequently. I hope that something can be done. The underlying motivation of all the suggestions that I saw is the poor and restricted control between knockback and knockdown (except powers that are designed only to do knockback). My opinion is that the control between knockback and knockdown should actually be done in real time rather than using enhancement (probably only me think this way).|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
But when I use an invention set, it may have a Knock Back recipe in it, and to ge the full effect of the set, you turn your knock-down power into knock-back. As a melee type, the knock-back is annoying for I have to go chasing after them. It would be nice, if those recipe sets had a second version where there is a choice of knock-back or knock-down recipies.
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Unfortunately, the suggestions are often disregarded because changes to the knockback/knockdown mechanics are probably needed, and there should be a corresponding change to all the knockback/knockdown powers, knockback enhancements and recipes as well. This looks like a pretty huge project for a relatively minor complaint. I guess if you can come up with something that is basically just flipping a switch, it would be more appealing to people.
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Actually, the transition from KD to KB occurs at 0.75, not 1.00.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
There's really no such thing as knock-down. There is only Knockback with a mag or less than 1.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
What you should be asking for is an IO that reduces KB and adds KU.
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I am not sure, I truly understand your reply, but consider the tanker axe power set, just about every attack has a knock-back/down ability. If one delves the various powers you see Knock-Down, Knock-Back, and Knock-Up. My experience is these side effects, tend to be quite consistent when fighting mobs, so I find it hard to believe that the Knock-Up component, for instance, to be less than a Mag 1 strength to it.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
There's really no such thing as knock-down. There is only Knockback with a mag or less than 1. As such, to get what you want, you'd actually have to have another set that was equivalent, but had no knockback slotting at all, since any increase in KB would likely push the KB mag to over 1, causing KB.
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With regards to IO choices, I am after certain specific effects one can get from using IO sets (more % damage, quicker recharge, better accuracy, enhance defense, etc), the knock-back feature from the using of a set is not limited to only knock-back based IOs, in fact some ranged attacks have knock back features, which for a blasters is an excellent benefit. All I am suggesting is to look at the variety of IO sets, and those which has recipes that offer Knock-Back, have an alternate choice Knock-Down, for instance take Kinetic Combat, a melee IO with high melee defense, it has a Knock-back recipe; would be nice if it also had a Knock-Down recipe alternate choice.
Penny what I want is my powers that are Knock-down and Knock-up to remain so, and not be converted to Knock-Back when I use IO recipes such as Kinetic Combat for instance. Would love to have a means to convert powers from knock-back to knock down.
Hugs
Stormy
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I never said anything about Knock Up, which is separate. However, if you ACTUALLY look at the powers in the various Tanker sets, including Axe, you'll see that there is no knockdown value. There is, however, a knockBACK value, of less than 0.75 (thanks for the correction on that one, Fleeting). Knockback and knockdown are one in the same, just with different values.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
I am not sure, I truly understand your reply, but consider the tanker axe power set, just about every attack has a knock-back/down ability. If one delves the various powers you see Knock-Down, Knock-Back, and Knock-Up. My experience is these side effects, tend to be quite consistent when fighting mobs, so I find it hard to believe that the Knock-Up component, for instance, to be less than a Mag 1 strength to it.
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| With regards to IO choices, I am after certain specific effects one can get from using IO sets (more % damage, quicker recharge, better accuracy, enhance defense, etc), the knock-back feature from the using of a set is not limited to only knock-back based IOs, in fact some ranged attacks have knock back features, which for a blasters is an excellent benefit. All I am suggesting is to look at the variety of IO sets, and those which has recipes that offer Knock-Back, have an alternate choice Knock-Down, for instance take Kinetic Combat, a melee IO with high melee defense, it has a Knock-back recipe; would be nice if it also had a Knock-Down recipe alternate choice. |
Now, the Kinetic Combat set has a Proc that does Knock-back, which could be changed. Since then you're just changing the value of the KB on the Proc.
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| Penny what I want is my powers that are Knock-down and Knock-up to remain so, and not be converted to Knock-Back when I use IO recipes such as Kinetic Combat for instance. Would love to have a means to convert powers from knock-back to knock down. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Borrowing Aett Thorn's reply, this is what I thought you were saying.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Basically, you're asking for the same set, but without any KB in it, which would then need to be replaced with more Acc, or EndRed, or some other effect.
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Again, I want to ask:
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| Don't you think that this was taken into account when the set was designed with its bonuses to make them attractive/desirable? |
Edit - Forgot to add, why not stop here? I can think of other sets where I want some other bonus, but still want to keep the IO set bonuses. They do it for this set and suddenly players will want changes all over to min/max their frankenslotting builds.
I get the impression this is going to turn into a KB/KD discussion all over again.
/unsigned
I don't want (further) reasons to discriminate against players in-game, based on their builds. We already went through a period of time in which a small percentage of zealous team leaders would kick VEATs from teams and also be nasty jerks in other ways, based on whether or not the player had taken TT: Maneuvers. Fortunately, even though the game was less fun to play while a determined few were kicking people and being very loud about the issue in-game, the efforts at "forced conversion" to TT: Maneuvers and the nastiness that attended it weren't sustained over the long run. I'd rather we didn't go through another period of time in which players bothered other players about whether or not they had the "knockback to knockdown" IO.
On a related point, sometimes knockback is annoying, but most of the time its fun; I get a grin on my face every time a storm defender joins a team on which I'm playing.
Aett, I think I understand what you are saying, but for clarity, let me try to explain it...
There are two knock effects: back and down. A flag is essentially set to where if the mag of the knock effect is below 1, it will result with a knock down/up; but if anything is done to increase the mag to 1 or more, then the effect is Knock-back.
Am I accurate?
Hugs
Sue
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Still not quite right, but accurate in how it works in game. There is no "flag" that sets it to knockdown if the mag value is less than 0.75. Think about it this way, the mag of knockback is how far the enemy will fall backwards. At knockback values of less than 0.75, the distance is functionally 0, and the enemy will still fall down, but won't go back any.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Aett, I think I understand what you are saying, but for clarity, let me try to explain it...
There are two knock effects: back and down. A flag is essentially set to where if the mag of the knock effect is below 1, it will result with a knock down/up; but if anything is done to increase the mag to 1 or more, then the effect is Knock-back. Am I accurate? Hugs Sue |
There are two knock effects, but they are knockback and knock-up. Knockback and knockdown are the same effect.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Actually there's only one. KnockUp is just Knockback with a different angle per Castle.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
There are two knock effects, but they are knockback and knock-up. Knockback and knockdown are the same effect.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Mechanically they may only differ in angle but they are treated as separate by the game, or at least mez protection powers have separate effects for -knockback and -knockup.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Actually there's only one. KnockUp is just Knockback with a different angle per Castle.
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You can read Paragon wiki for further information. It has a link to knockdown and knockup as well.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
There are two knock effects: back and down. A flag is essentially set to where if the mag of the knock effect is below 1, it will result with a knock down/up; but if anything is done to increase the mag to 1 or more, then the effect is Knock-back.
Am I accurate? |
Once again, we have met our monthly quota on this idea. Congrats to all!
Hi:
If I understand right, many melee powers that have Knock -back/down characteristics becomes solely knock-back when you place an enhancement/invention with Knock-back. This much is ok. But when I use an invention set, it may have a Knock Back recipe in it, and to ge the full effect of the set, you turn your knock-down power into knock-back. As a melee type, the knock-back is annoying for I have to go chasing after them. It would be nice, if those recipe sets had a second version where there is a choice of knock-back or knock-down recipies.
Hugs
Stormy