Are Min/Max'ers common?

First I must state that I understand that there are varying degrees of min/maxing, but overall do you believe that min/max'ers are common? It seems like it is around the scrapper boards but I haven't really ventured into the other AT sections. Am I correct in my assumption?

Interesting question. I'm sure the scrapper forum has the highest concentration of min/max'ers you're going to find since this is where they go to discuss their craft. I wish there was some good way to datamine the game to see how (un)common we really are.

People interested in min/max analysis of characters are a lot more common on the forums (as a whole) than the game in general. It makes sense, if you think about the fact that the people who actually do come to the forums are often looking for information and a deeper dive into knowledge about the game. Many such folks are either already of a min/max mindset, or sometimes become such after gaining detailed knowledge.

Certainly not everyone who comes to the forums is like this or will become this way, but it seems to me that it's a more common motivation here than it is among players in general.

Considering the number of utterly horrible builds I see when playing with PuGs, I'm going to have to say that we're quite uncommon. If I had to pull a number out of my portable hole (because I'm high level enough not to need those pansy bags of holding!), I'd say that maybe 10% of the game is comprised of people that min/max beyond the basics (i.e. knowing the basic slotting recommendations while using SOs).

I generally use set bonuses to try and gauge this, because I figure that odds are, if you're a min-maxer, you're probably using IOs of some sort. I find that the vast majority of people I meet don't have any, and of the rest, a good chunk just have one or two (usually a unique of some sort or something useless like immob resist). It's really not that common at all.

Uncommon. Of the people I know personally that play CoX, two out of seven are min/maxxers, including myself. I min/max my wife's build and give advice and influence to those that aren't, so they will generally have higher-end and better built toons than they would otherwise. Taking what I've seen my friends do without such assistance into account, they would have builds that would make us shudder. Especially since 2/7 are Rp-oriented and would pick powers solely based upon looks or theme, such as Jump Kick and Flurry. *shudder*

Given that the overwhelming majority of people in this game know nothing about game mechanics and basic arithmetic, that having a character that performs well is considered a sin in some circles, and that a person asking for build advice is almost as likely to be answered with some tripe about "playing for fun" as they are to get accurate and useful information, I'd say minmaxers are extremely uncommon.

I play a Scrapper but I'm not a min/maxer. Go figure, just about takes all sorts to make a world eh? To answer your question with my opinion; not common, but vocal!

Definitely uncommon.

Other boards on these forums are full of min-maxers. Its pretty common to see threads on soft-capping defence for Blasters and Defenders, for example. But thats what the forums are for, for obsessing over details.

In game, I see a lot of people with no set bonuses, so I'm guessing they don't pay too much attention to the fine details of their character's performance.

Uncommon.

You can tell this for one, just by looking at the powers of some builds, and seeing if they're using sets.

Then seeing if they've used sets, see what type of bonuses they have gone for.

Now, I've helped people with builds, and they come to me because I'll take their concept (and my own) and then min/max it as best as possible.

So right there, I'm not a TRUE min/maxer. As I find Hover/Fly to be anti man/maxing mself, as CJ/SJ would be the better min/max route for most builds.

This isn't to say you don't have people who will see people lacking certain powers and not complain.

I know plenty of non min/maxers who will still complain about that tank who lacks their mez protection.

I also think, the forums mislead a bit.

We plan with mids for a great build, but I doubt we all get them to that point. Because while it's possible to have multi IOed out toons, it's not the easiest.

Hero side, I have a 3 or 4 almost completed IOed toons (but not quite completed)...with most using Gen IOs, and a few of the sets I planned to get for them, actually obtained and thrown in.

Red side...only have 1 toon that is IO'ed out quite a bit. Amazingly enough, it
s not one of my 50's. :P It's my lvl 45 Elec/Thermal.

BrandX makes a good point. You see a lot of min/maxed builds on the forums, but how many of them are actually live builds and how many of them are just Mid's numbers?

My BS/DA build is the only one I've done recently that is actually a live build, minus a few IOs. The majority of the rest of them are just Mid's mock-ups of what I'd like to do with the character.

I'd say it is more uncommon than even the forums would lead you to believe. The multi-billion influence builds are common on the forums, but I'd bet not even a quarter of the people putting these builds up on the forums actually have the cash to put them together.

For me, min/max has a slightly different meaning. Maximum performance for minimum cost. I put together builds as cheaply as I possibly can, which gives me a better chance of actually building them on the live servers. I can throw together uber-expensive dream builds with the best of them, but I don't do it because I know I will never be able to afford to actually build them.

I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have seen someones set bonus' list and thought 'wow' (Outside of my SG). And I would think unless that happens they are probably not a min/max'er, so it seems fairly rare to me.

I think even the percentage of those that actually bother with IO sets at all is fairly low, nevermind those who can get the best out of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

There aren't too many extreme min/maxers around, but I think most people try to min/max within some boundaries, be it SOs, IOs or no boundaries at all. This is all a wild guess, but it's derived from the assumption that most players want their characters to feel super which in in-game terms is they want them to perform well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have seen someones set bonus' list and thought 'wow' (Outside of my SG). And I would think unless that happens they are probably not a min/max'er, so it seems fairly rare to me.

Most of the time I see a build with a list full of "Ultimate X Bonuses" I just think, nice, but they could've done far better with less influence spent. Sure, purples are good, but they don't really offer the kind of bonuses quite a few powersets benefit the most from: Defense. It really saddens me when I see a Shield or SR Scrapper or something similar with an abundance of purple sets, but only a few or no Defense bonuses at all.

Basically, it just annoys me when people presume that stuffing a character full of purples will automatically make it "teh pwnz0r".

I've found a good number of folks, brace for it, just wanna play their toon the way they want to play it. Have a buddy who has a L50 tank, has had him for years, and wants him to be a "fighting tank." He doesn't particularly care if he's considered squishy.

Me? I like to game and I think Min/Maxing is part of the game. Others just like to go around blasting, pounding and locking stuff down for their $15 a month.

That said, I only have two builds that I'd consider min/maxed - my tank and my troller. I have a blaster in the mix, but I'm not sure I'm going to min/max him. I've been going different ways with his concept and haven't settled on one I really like and I can't see putting "money" into a build I may not like in a month.

I think the question is hard to answer as what constitutes a min/max build will vary from player to player. To the vast majority of the players in the SGs I'm in; I would be a min/maxer but just based off of the scrapper forums i wouldn't be.

I haven't gone back and IO'd out all my older alts and even some of the newer ones are aiming for a performance level above that capable with SOs alone but not near the top potential IOs can offer.

Sometimes it comes down how many alts a player has, investing the same time into 2 or 3 alts will make those better than another player that has 2 or 3 alts of every archetype that they play regularly.

I have noticed a lot of long time players don't have a great understanding of some long existing game mechanics. I think I've been explaining how line of sight works for over 5 years.

Most of the people I play with are min/maxers to some degree or another but few of them have a stable of all purple/rare/PvPIO builds. Most of them have at least one character, usually their namesake, that they outfit with the best that they can. Sometimes they finish one and then start on a new character to pimp out, but it takes time to complete it.

The rest of their characters are modestly outfitted, whether that be with sets, commons, SOs, HOs, or some combination thereof. But they know what powers to pick, how to slot them, and how to use them to great effect in a given circumstance.

Another vote for the overrepresentation of min/maxers on the forums compared to the game.

I'm a min/maxer in Mids, and a cheapskate in the game. I view the two as separate exercises, especially seeing as all my characters perform fine despite my own failings as a player I have one character that I softcapped, a BS/SD scrapper, and that's all I ever wanted out of the whole min/max thing.

I think there's nothing wrong with powergaming/minmaxing your characters. It's your money and your good times! Plus there are things out there that my casually tossed together characters just can't handle: RWZ challenge, soloing pylons, that sort of thing.