Taunt? -seriously

Aggro Cap is 17 and its more easily maintained by those with taunt than those without. Your Aura hits 10 say, then maybe your AoE doesn't hit the same 10 and your ST attacks can each gauntlet one. There is no AoE gauntlet with Brutes. At times with tauntless Brutes they just won't maintain aggro cap for if they did the Domie or whoever wouldn't be able to pull despite their levels of damage.

When on a bad team you taunt to save the squishies.
When on a good team you taunt to build fury.
When solo you taunt to stop the runners.
So how useful is it for a brute?

I would personally never skip taunt on a brute/tank (unless it was a solo character only), especially given the added -range component.

When on a bad team I kill to save the squishies.
When on a good team I kill to build fury.
When solo I kill to stop the runners.

Now, I'm not saying taunt isn't useful, but you can accomplish those things without it only with little difficulty with runners. As far as saving squishies go, if they can't handle the bit of aggro they get, they're doing it wrong and I'd rather not have them on my team in the first place. ALL of my Doms, Corrs, and Blaster have no problems with holding their own.

Off topic but just have a request.

Clouded, I would appreciate it if you would not put my name on things I did not say. While I do agree for the most part with the comment you posted from Fiery-Enforcer, I did not say it.

And I am still waiting on how the actions I described earlier are selfish. Please help me undersand where you are coming from with this.

And I do totally agree with you about taunt or no taunt being viable if the player is intelligent.

Taunt is a nice power, instant aggro GET! is nice as is the range debuff. But a lot of builds, mine included, don't have room for it.

If I had room I would have taken it. For PvP I would have taken it. As it stands, its a neat power whose primary function is more than adequately performed by the rest of my brutey smashing and semi-intelligent playing, it got axed.

HelinCarnate,

I'll give you the respect you asked for and respond to your points about being selffish since I opened that can of worms. It will probably help if we start at the beginning.

Here is your first post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelinCarnate If my brute wants to taunt something, I'll just put my fist through its face. In PVE while using a brute, why have a button that neither protects me nor hurts something else? Or at the least make it so I can hurt stuff faster like hasten and build up.

You state Taunt isn't an attractive power pick because it does not protect you or hurt someone else (i'm assuming an enemy), nor does it buff your ability to kill faster.

This post was all about you and your brute, and nothing about teammates.

I responded with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouded Cause being a brute isn't always about being selffish. Sometimes taunting that mob off the dom or corr is better for the team than you having 90% Fury rather then 75%.

The seffish line is in reference to your statement about Taunt not providing any protection to you or providing a buff to your kill speed. My second sentence gives a bit of insight why Taunt could be useful in a team setting.

You then respond with the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelinCarnate If a dom or a corr gets aggro from me it probably means one of the following. They ran in first, therefore they get what they deserve. I am above the aggro cap, therefore taunt would not help. They are doing so much damage, the mobs pick them to go after instead. If this is the case, they should have no problem dealing with the sliver of health that is left on said mob.

You provided 3 examples when a dom or corr might receive aggro. I should have noted the use of "probably" in you opening sentence but apparently skimmed right over it.

If I had read the first line correctly I probably wouldn't have responded with such snarkiness in this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouded Right, out of the thousands of hours I've played brutes those are the only 3 examples where ANYONE will have loose aggro. HA! I like how your mypoic viewpoint proves my point about being selffish. This playstyle you define is not a Brute playstyle but a HelinCarnate playstyle. We get it, you find Taunt worthless because your palystyle focuses on your own fury and don't care about your team. That's all you had to say.

That was a bit over the top and I apologize.

Your examples themselves do not show selffishness and the playstyle comment wasn't meant as a dig. I play a variety of brutes and share that playstyle on occasion. However, I also know the benefits of Taunt and why it can be useful to you and your team.

To clarify, the whole selffishness bit was directed at your first post and not your examples. Perhaps I'm jaded because I've been playing Corrs and Doms recently with Brutes that seem to ignore the team and only focus on exp/min. So, I apologize if I came across like a jackhole.

Wow, interesting discussion. I started this same line on tankers. Many of the same points are made, but on redside the argument that "I am just here to do damage" is a lot more powerful. Brutes are hard to top for sustained ST pain dealing.

My main brute is a SS/Will, with 4 purp sets (yes, I am going for that fifth purp set!), also, the best procs, etc. Pretty much a global rech monster that spams the hardest 6 attacks I got and ignores the rest. (shame too, some of them are fun, and all those wasted slots) Wasted slots, right, why I was bragging, er explaining. No extra slots. As a Will tank I needed fighting set, so kick was taken plus 2 shields. Not a 100,000 month vet, so I had to tank the punch from flight to open up fly power. I really do not have room for taunt on my build. I understand that can be bad for squishies, so I always run in and lay down my 2 AoE attacks at the beginning of every spawn attack. Then I start wailing on the boss, spamming my AoEs as they come up (they are 2 of those 6 I constantly hammer)

My brute actually can hold a ton of agro. People do not like him, they think he is a threat. Conversely, I was teaming with 3 tanks last night on my blaster. One of those tanks bragged he was a 4 billion buildout (I saw the bonuses.) They engaged about 15 samurai in AE, one neatly grouped spawn. They were not using taunt. I let them engage for 10 seconds. Everyone looked involved in the fight. I lined up my cones and started blasting with my rifle. Three Samurai decided i needed attention. Run little squishie! (I didn't make it). If that was 3 brutes, I think I would have been okay, maybe not, but I know my odds would have been better. I know my brute could have held the interest of those 15 Samurai, heh. Probably waxed a boss before a blaster could have got to him too, or at least have him down to tiny health.

Again, interesting discussion. Thanks.

Thank you for your explination Clouded. Now I can see where you came to your conclusion and agree, the words I used did make it look like I have a selfish playstyle even though that was not my intent.

Yes taunt can be handy on a brute but like many others, I seem to run out of room before I have a place to put that power. I feel your pain with some brutes out there. Sometimes they forget or just ignore the fact that most squishies cannot hop in the middle of an 8 man spawn and go afk and still be alive when they come back.

Tauntless Brutes and keeping aggro of AVs or Heroes.

I agree that Brutes can be built without taunt. They can go for soloing AVs/Hero and stuff but when it comes to fighting AVs in a team there are some recommendations to consider.

Turn the AVs backs to the team. This will be an attempt to reduce cone attacks. If an AV has a Brute it's compelled to hit and several others it can hit then it would be an acceptable AI thought to use a cone. Usually if others get hit, its by a cone or AoE and that doesnt normally have to happen.

Bring the AV into areas that can offer the rest of the team range. If a Pbaoe is used then other players don't have to be scrunched up in it in order to attack. I like to leave ample space behind an AV/Hero so that other players had the choice to stay ranged and safe.

If the tanker is not permitting you to do these things then that Tanker is probably inexperienced just bare in mind people tend to learn leveling up.

Always try to get other Brutes and Tankers to attack your AV/Hero target from the same side your on.

When it comes to teaming with other Brutes then the AVs/Heroes damage types may need to be taken into consideration. Normally it doesn't as even I see how people say how easy the LRSF is with their Brutes when they've got 1 Dom and 6 Corrupters in team or something overbaked in help like that but in the skimpiest of teams then the Brute with the highest level of survivability may want to have the highest threat level. Those with the least may want to tone their attack chains down or turn their aura(s) off as its uneconomical on one target anyway.

Aggro without taunt is often in a virtual sense, do not assume that you can maintain it on every AV/Hero.

I don't play tauntless Brutes, so maybe someone else can say more but I am glad that as a Brute with taunt so few others can taunt. They do tend to do more damage...unless I taunt and steal their fury fuel. On a single target such as an AV yes it's probably plausible that they can still do more damage.