Empathy on a controller?

So, never made a empath, but since I do RWZ alot, Thought id make one on my other account to help me do some AE missions.

So the question is, would empathy in this manner be better suited on a controller or a defender? I might actually take the toon on a tf or whatever later on, so wasn't sure if the empathy defender is more needed on teams (and better buffs) rather than the dmg/control that a empathy controller can do.

Anyone else been in my situation and wasn't sure which to make?

Empathy degrades in performance very little as a Controller secondary compared to a Defender primary, so the only thing you lose is that powers come later.

If you're dual boxing, either will support a Blaster incredibly well. If you actively play the second account via keystroke braodcasting, a Defender is probably easier since their extra powerset matches the blasters, whereas a Controller is better off switchign targets and a Blaster is better off taking down enemies one by one.

As a support character on a task force, a Controller is probably better for high level content. A Defedner provides better AoE damage, a controller provides a high level of control.
If you plan on running lower level task forces a Defender may win out, eg they'd have Fortitude avaialble to run Positron.

Troller would have Fort too, if they took it at 20 in lieu of Stamina.

I just wanted to add that soloing on an emp controller will be easier because you'll have a pet to buff after level 32. Though before that it may be kinda painful either way. So whatever you do, team team team!

ITF? Ice, because -rech isnt resisted like holds/stuns/kb

I love empathy on all my defenders and trollers. Really it is a good choice for trollers but i always love it on defenders Win Win either way

Here's my harsh version, stated this way for dramatic effect in the hopes I can get into a debate with someone.

For the purposes of team survivability, Empathy on a Defender is trash compared to a Controller. A lone Empathy Defender cannot ever compete with the safety a Controller brings, and it's folly to even try. I die a little inside everytime a team thinks inviting an Empathy Defender will turn the tide of death. (Force Field Defenders are a different story, however).

What an Empathy Defender is is a hybrid buffer/DPS. It actually IS a valuable character, but not for the reasons most people create or play them.

You know, was thinking about this this morning before work. I also pvp in sirens alot. And whether just team playing with an empathy I want to make, or making a buff bot for siren's, the controller would not have AB at 35.

Does DR in siren's make AB really not worth it anyway?

I would consider Illusion/Empathy. Its a great support character. You have the non-aggro-causing single target confusion power (deceive) which is great for a followbot to have on auto at times when you dont need the heal on auto. You get a hold and extra damage if you need it (reaching over to an adjacent keyboard isnt so bad). You also get Phantom Army at level 18, and thats just the bees knees. Plus you get all the empathy goodness. Also, the Illusion primary gives you superior invisibility so you can have full stealth on your empath.

Good times!

Lewis

You might also want to look at /therm. Thermal's heals are only a step behind Empathy's, and the shields let you mitigate damage preemptively, which means you spend less time in combat healing others and more time deploying your controls.

Well,iv never tried Empathy my self,i dont really see the validity of the set personally,and never admired the player who sits back and spams heals,and has only his Teir 1 attack,that he boasts,is not slotted.Considering iv been on teams that had 2-3 EMPs,and they couldnt keep the Tanker Alive.(I was the Tanker,the build was a WP/SS in the situation im about to describe.)

I had built my Tanker for armor toggles and Taunt first,the way any tanker should.However,the 3 EMPs couldnt keep me alive on a long +3 /8 mission,and you can guess what happened to the rest of the team the moment i dropped.So,i told the team leader,"Let me get my Defender,itll do a better job then my Tanker will".

I went and got my /Traps Defender,and i laid down Trops,Poison Trap,Acid Mortar,and sniped the mob to bring them into my traps.Not only did the 1 Scrapper on the team do a excellent job Tanking while sitting in my web of traps,as well as the extra added defense % my Shield Drone gave,the mission went exceedinly smooth at that point from using just those few traps.

Then...the unthinkable happened..

The Scrapper and Blaster popped off with "Good heals everybody!"

MY frickin jaw dropped,and i said "Yeh,but how about them Traps?"

A hush went over the team,and the banter stopped,and you could hear a cricket in the background.....

I have personally never met a EMP i liked teaming with,especially at higher levels,and i would have to agree that Thermal is a massivly better set then Empathy,but,i cant get into it for concept reasons,and id take a Radiant Aura over a EMP any day,heck...ill take any support power set over a EMP any day...

The main reason why ill take someone else,is because of the seemingly WoW & DDO asspect of it all.In other games,a healer is praised for his job,because in those games,a healer,is a God in many ways to a team.They literally "DO" keep that team alive,because thats there main function in the game,due to its mechanics.

I also wont deny that i am very apprehensive,and a bit of a biggit when i see a EMP,because they are praised,and desired more then any other support power set to most PUGs that i have seen.Iv been booted from teams while playing a Cold Domination,Radiant Aura,Trick Arrow,Traps,and Bubbler Builds,and when i ask why it says i was just kicked from team...i usually get the following response..."Sorry,but we need a healer."

Thats my personal experiance with the EMP set,and it is not a good feeling to be booted from a team,or passed over,or not get acknowledged at all for your support in a team,while all the Glory goes to the EMP.Most people belive HP heals are the best way to go,which isnt true,iv seen a single Bubbler keep a entire team alive for many missions,without a EMP or Healing Support of any kind.

Personally,id go with the recomendation that you try another set,such as the before mentioned Thermal,or perhaps Radiant Aura?(Rad is my personal favorite for a Controller)

I agree with you that a disturbingly high percentage of players hold Empathy (or specifically healing) up as the paragon of defenderly virtue. However it's important to not go the other way and discriminate against Empaths simply for being Empaths. Used well it is a good set although in most cases it is outclassed by other sets although as with all defenders it is important to remember that a Defenders blasts are almost as important as his buffs.

The example that you gave sounds more like a player problem than an Empath problem. Three Empaths working together should be able to keep anyone alive against regular enemies. You didn't specify the level but as long as they were level 12 they could just triple stack Fortitude on you which should be more than sufficient with the occasional heal. The higher level solution is for them to AB each other. With three Empaths AB'ing each other you should be able to have Regen Aura on the team pretty much permanently which leaves the Emps plenty of free time for blasting. The problem isn't that Empathy is a poor set it's that you encounter Empaths who don't know how to use the buffs in the set to their advantage. Once you get to the mid-twenties the utility of heals drops off sharply and the difference between a good Empath and a bad one is how well they utilize the buffs that Empathy provides.

EDIT: Slight mistake in my math there. 3 Empaths can keep up auras constantly without AB. AB'ing each other just means that you get double auras about 50% of the time.

With 3 well played empaths, 2 Forts on the entire team is should be well within their capabilities and that should put everyone at the soft cap for defense. As well the team should never not be under the effect of both auras and spend a great deal of time under the effects of stacked auras. Properly slotted and used 2 regen auras will have the entire team at or above 1800% regen ... as much if not more than a /Regen running IH is likely to have. The team described above should have been all but unkillable and more than capable of steamrolling whatever was in front of them.

Empathy is not a bad set. It's just not the cat's pajamas.

Empathy and Thermal come out about even in the end. Empathy loses a point for Absorb Pain, but Thermal loses a point for a Rez power on 300 second recharge that costs half your endurance bar and draws aggro. Empathy has no debuffs and Thermal has no Endurance boosts.

My main issue with Empathy is that some teams think an Empathy Defender somehow has the ability to keep a full team alive by themselves. And frequently, it's the Empaths themselves who think this, because they don't understand the concept of mitigation. I can see how that could happen; I think it's very hard for people who don't play Controllers to understand the reasons teams live or die in hard fights. I think a lot of them just attribute survival to some kind of divine mojo, where some teams are blessed and others not. They seem genuinely perplexed when the Controller quits and people start dying. "But we were just mopping the floor with these guys."

The other problem with Empathy is few Empaths grasp the importance of tossing out Fortitude the moment it is available. Nor do they realize when they announce things like "Gather for RA!" they are actually working against their main draw, which is keeping the team rolling quickly.

Empathy makes for a better "follow-bot" than Thermal. Its the ultimate "buff my favourite few" set when played well.

Thermal will protect a large team better, since it can cover 7 others with its shields, but Empathy is the best buff set for playing favourites.

For a Controller, Fortitude gives 18% Def to everything, equivalent to 36% resistance roughly.
Thermal gives 23% resistance to S/L/E/N, double to fire, negligible to cold and none to Psi.

Fortitudes offensive buffs and Forge are much of a muchness, Forge is 10% better maybe?
Once you get Adrenalin Boost, all bets are off, Empathy is the clear winner.

I've tried both in a dual-boxing situation, and Empathy wins hands down as a support set for a single other player. Any questions about what dopey Empaths on pick up groups have done are irrelevant if you're playing the backup character yourself.

(Of course, two Empaths buffing each other is the clear winner. Dont get me started... )