Empathy on a controller?

Well yes, and as soon as Cold Shields (or FF) start buffing the targets To Hit and Damage the maybe we can call it a wash. Part of the safety factor is your buff target is going to kill whatever is in his face faster (or he's in the face of) as well as the +defense.

I see your point but don't completely agree with it. When things die faster what actually happens most of the time in this game is the team seeks out new things to attack. It's true that eliminating enemies quickly can reduce incoming damage from that group but it doesn't help if the next enemy encounter begins soon after the previous ends.

Well /cold can do all that with sleet alone (def and resist debuff) then add in infrigate, heat loss and benumb /cold seems to do even "more". And given they are debuffs they help the entire team out not just one person.

Empathy is a better follow-bot if for no other reason than the fact that IF you spam the healing aura in a tight spot, it doesn't sound as awful as the Thermal AoE heal.

Lewis

Fixed

This hasn't been my experience. It would be more true, to me, if the set didn't experience such significant downtime. Empathy rocks all of the other sets when its powers are up, but with two powers at base 500 second recharge, the shield on base 60 second recharge, and the Tier 9 at base 300, Empathy performs like a roller coaster in a game where we need a steam roller.

It's a matter of opinion, but for team safety specifically I'd take a Controller with any secondary prior to an Empathy Defender. For hybrid mitigation/DPS, the Defender is just fine. But for some reason all of the Empathy Defenders I meet think they add more survival than Controllers (or even FF Defenders), which I have rarely actually witnessed.

I do 50/50 on calling. If we're in battle I just try to maneuver so it'll hit as many people as possible/the people who need it most.

Between fight's I'll usually call if the team is spread out. If not I just fire away.

I never ask people to gather. I find that annoying.

That's unfortunate, but largely true. I have a level 47 Emp/Psi that is well down on my alt list (typically solo which she isn't built for), and my #1 priority is seeing that Fortitude is applied as often as it is up on whoever seems to need it the most.* Then I worry about Adrenalin Boost**, then the Auras (Recovery more than Regen, and I will pop these in battle finding spots when the team is naturally clustered; typically I'll be near the melee toons, but close enough to hit the ranged toons as well. If you're off doing your own thing, that's unfortunate and you probably don't need the buff anyway).

Past that, I'm attacking through the tank (and hey, my attacks do -Rech which lower incoming damage), keeping an eye on the team window for health and the chat for any "zzzzzzzz"s.

Healing Aura should be wayyyyyyyyy down the list at this point. The last TF I did (granted it was Citadel, so we were facing pansy Council) I think the only time I used it was to heal myself, when I was an idiot and attracted too much aggro.






*this is an argument in and of itself...often tanks can get by fine w/o it unless the going is particularly harsh, or these days if the tank was SK'd up a great deal and doesn't have a full compliment of defensive powers at their natural level. Quite often I'll apply it to Scrappers acting as tanks for the extra sturdiness and the damage buff. Sometimes I'll throw it on Khelds. Typically I *won't* apply it to Blasters, Defenders, Controllers unless they really seem to be getting themselves in trouble and seeing more aggro than they should.

** THIS however is good to slap on Blasters, especially ones that like to blow their end using their nukes. That and just making them kill things faster. Also good on Scrappers who burn through end or Tanks in extended battles to make sure their toggles don't drop.

Good points, I agree with you. I probably should have added a disclaimer that I build with IOs, so looking at a set I'm trying to gauge maximum (or at least higher than SO) performance. IOd Empathy for high recharge to get maximum uptime on the RAs/AB and Fort on as many people as possible is crazy uber.

I would also rather have an Emp troller than an Empathy defender. Brings more mitigation through mez and the weaker buff/debuff numbers aren't a dealbrealer for me. Emp controllers generally having less of the ****** attitudes commonly found, but that's another discussion for another day

Hmmm,
My experience doesnt feel like a roller-coaster of effectiveness. With proper attention to buffs and heals everyone stays near full health when the RAs are down. When they are up I dont have to heal at all and can have more fun blasting, but I would not say that the team is steam-rolling any faster or slower because of the RAs. They DO help on AV fights and, as mentioned, I will save them till the start of those fights once we get close.

I agree with your second statement. I "Know" that Controllers can keep a team safer from large hordes of Villains. Where the whole thing breaks down is with Bosses mixed into a large Horde. Controllers have a whole different duty at that point, and one which my Empath doesnt share. Locking down runaway "Bosses" is something my defender does not have to do, just something I can help out with. Usually my job is to react and keep that teammate standing who drew the extra aggro till a tank or troller "locks down the threat". But I often can use Tesla Cage as a back-up hold to a controller on my team, in order to "Lockdown" a Boss BEFORE he starts hacking apart squishy team-mates.

One of the highest complements I have ever gotten while playing my Defender was on a small team (only scraps and defenders) and after a long session, a teammate says "you are a Defender right?". I respond "Yes". Then he says "Man, I wasnt sure, cause you are like a blaster combined with a troller, can you Tank too?"

Very true (and I wasn't particularly addressing the set as a whole just the Fort vs Shield point).

I think part of the issue here lies in Empathy's very strength, its ability to apply very strong buffs to ones teammates. Thing is many of those teammates build so as not to need the buffs (or perhaps more properly to decrease reliance on as much as possible) not that the buffs aren't potent but precisely because the benefits of those buffs are so important (high accuracy, high regen, high recharge, high recovery). If you knew that 24-7 you'd have Fort, AB, etc. on you, you could build very very differently. I doubt any other defender primary would have a similar impact overall to a general pve build. And I stress the 'overall' part of that statement. I could alter my build with respect to its +recovery if I knew I was teaming all the time with a Rad, Kin or Cold, but I'd still be looking to up my regen or recharge or ... whatever isn't getting covered.

In essence an Empath's impact on its teammates strongly overlaps with what the members of that team have the most control over in the decisions on how they build their character.

I think the "an Emp troller" and "an Emp defender" is telling. If you add only one of either the Controller arguably adds more mitigation, add 3 of both its more of a toss up, and add 6 and its not mitigation your comparing anymore but offensive power which is probably why 8 Fire/Rads tends to trump most things.

That and when you start talking 8 of any combination of either controllers or defenders or mix of the two, the game just isn't hard enough to make any theoretical difference tangible, the mobs tend to just vaporize.

My Ill/emp is a team. :P

Empthy is one of the only sets i prefur to play on a Defender then a controller.

My first Empath was a Fire/Emp. (I'd have prefured Thermal, but it wasn't around atm.) She was a really fun build. Pretty powerful solo. (3 forted imps with Auras on them can be pretty insane.) A great team player. But, it had one flaw... that just drove me crasy. She felt all but useless in AV fights. Or GM fights. My controls couldn't do squat... my imp died in seconds from AOE... my damage was kind of a joke. (didn't really build her for damage.) And once the team was buffed... eh, that was kind of it for me. I'd spot heal, and reapply buffs... I'd become the dreaded "heal bot" for AV fights... cause there was little else meaningly i could do.

So, after great planing and though, i made a new empath... IMO, the perfect Empath... an Emp/Sonic Defender. I lost the control of Fire, true, but I gained the ability to actively debuff mobs and do more damage. It felt like a more rounded build. I lost some effectiveness to rank and file enemys true, but made up for it by having a much greater impact, and more active roll in the big, finial show down battles with AV's and the like.

And that's kind of how i play them. If the team is mainly running a tf that doesn't have major AV battles in them... as in, only maybe one av at the very end, i'd run my controler for added effectiveness in just dealing with regular mobs. Lots of AV's, or overly difficult ones? I run the EMP/Sonic.