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Originally Posted by Blpup
Amp hide in pvp.
Makes no since for a stalker to need to get stealth pool and the stealth IO to be unseen. And yeah i know it depends on the person perception. My domi has 759.50ft of perception so if a stalker only had Hide i could see it. And isnt a stalkers job is to hide? long story short Makes no sense that a stalker needs to waste a pool power/slot on Stealth |
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense. The only things that can see a stalker in PvE are the things that ignore stealth altogether anyway. You're saying that a stalker shouldn't have to take extra powers for PvP effectiveness when every other AT does? That isn't exactly fair.
As it is, when stalkers hit the stealth cap they can only be seen from 10 feet away by someone at the perception cap, which is impossible to reach without outside help or a lot of yellow inspirations. I mean, are you really going to pop a whole tray of yellows because you think there might be a stalker nearby?
Also, most stalkers that are serious about PvPing are going to take the concealment pool anyway to get access to Phase Shift, so it's not that big of a deal.
In short, it's to keep it fair. An undetectable stalker is slightly overpowered.
When CoV first came out and zone PvP was introduced, stalkers were invisible and they could one shot any character they could hit. A character that cannot be seen and can kill you in one hit is not even close to fair, so they killed that as soon as they could, implementing the anti one-shot code.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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A nitpick: veats can see them from farther than that.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
As it is, when stalkers hit the stealth cap they can only be seen from 10 feet away by someone at the perception cap, which is impossible to reach without outside help or a lot of yellow inspirations.
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The only way a dominatior is going to get their perception that high is with Tactics and possibly a +Perception IO. | My domi has 759.50ft of perception |
How does it not make sense for a stalker to need a pool power and an IO to counteract the pool power and IO another character took in order to see them?
It's called balance, and it is one of the few things about PvP that actually IS balanced, and should therefore not be messed with.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Off topic;
Don't Stealth and Hide not stack?
OT: I'd say buff VEAT Stealth. It sucks. Even in PvE. And they don't really have better defences/Res than a Stalker (For the most part)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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[QUOTE=Techbot Alpha;2515239]Off topic;
Don't Stealth and Hide not stack? QUOTE]
Stealth is the only one that stacks with it from what I've read before.
EDIT: I suck at quoting lol
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Hide is the only stealth power that stacks with other stealth powers. It will stack with any stealth power a stalker can acquire. That includes: Stealth, Invisibility, and any temp stealth that can be acquired. It also stacks with Stealth IOs. |
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Stealth is the only one that stacks with it from what I've read before. |
Note, that does not mean a stalker can stack Stealth and a temp stealth. Only Hide and one other stealth can be used simultaneously.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If a Stalker wants to improve their stealth capability, they should be allowed to, and encouraged to, take the Concealment power pool. Hide shouldn't instantly put you at the Stealth cap, because it's got it's own advantages to it; like being able to use Assassin's Strike and not costing any endurance and so forth.
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Hide will stack with:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Off topic;
Don't Stealth and Hide not stack? |
- Anything from the Concealment pool, OR
- Any of the temporary stealths from the patrol missions
And in addition, you can add -
- A stealth IO
- An external stealth buff (Empowerment center, Ill controller, concealment pool.)
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| OT: I'd say buff VEAT Stealth. It sucks. Even in PvE. And they don't really have better defences/Res than a Stalker (For the most part) |
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Are you saying they get a higher perception cap than other ATs?
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Originally Posted by Kahlan_
A nitpick: veats can see them from farther than that.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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they indeed do
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Are you saying they get a higher perception cap than other ATs?
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And while Stalkers need extra sources of stealth to be safely invisible in PvP, their opponents need extra sources of perception in order to force that upon the Stalker in the first place. Nobody can see a Stalker in PvP unless they have some kind of +perception (Hide gives 500ft StealthRadiusPlayer, and player base percetion is 500ft).|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense. The only things that can see a stalker in PvE are the things that ignore stealth altogether anyway. You're saying that a stalker shouldn't have to take extra powers for PvP effectiveness when every other AT does? That isn't exactly fair.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Off topic;
Don't Stealth and Hide not stack? |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Hide is the only stealth power that stacks with other stealth powers.
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Hide is set to "Hide_Group", rather than "Stealth_Group". (The only power in Hide_Group other than the various copies of Hide is the Raid Deploy Pylon temporary power, but since base raids are inactive...)
Don't forget, however, the stealth powers which are not toggles (Grant Invisibility [Concealment pool], Grant Invisibility [Empowerment station], Group Invisibility); these are not part of any power grouping. The other side of it is stealth powers which, while they might be in Stealth_Group, don't necessarily have to be activated by you: Shadow Fall, Arctic Fog, Steamy Mist.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Are you saying they get a higher perception cap than other ATs?
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See Limits
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Okay, I'll rephrase to better illustrate what I meant.
Hide is the only stealth toggle that can be run simultaneously with other stealth toggles.
Which is what I said, but in different wording to be less ambivalent.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Ok, good to know.
There did seem to be a phase (pun not intended) where Hide DIDNT stack with temp stealths. Which probably means I deleted them all off my stalker. Ah well.
I'll get a stealth IO one day anyway, just to beat those peasky Rikti Drones and KoAs! >_< Evil.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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They'll still see you.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'll get a stealth IO one day anyway, just to beat those peasky Rikti Drones and KoAs! >_< Evil.
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That's what smoke grenade is meant to mitigate. Dropping their perception range so you cannot be seen.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Yes. Please. I find it really annoying to need a similar "hidden" status for my Bane or Widow, and be seen by non-high-perception mobs before I get into range. (And I don't believe it stacks... at least not with the temp stealth powers. The IO/external buff should.)
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Also, I recall that even in the early days of PVP stalkers could still be seen, the event that turned me against PVP because I decided on my SR scrapper to just explore Bloody Bay, or it might have been Siren's, but a stalker tried to sneak up on me and readied his assassin's strike, but I could see him and thought: "Oh, he wants to fight me, okay, this should be fun." And I knocked him out of his AS with a well placed hit, he freaks out and begs to be let go, so I do. Then he comes back with brute buddy and they double team me and laugh.
I know they're playing villains but that doesn't mean the player has to be a jerk!
Oh, also, /unsigned, OP, stalkers already have auto-hit ranged placate attacks. And I don't think it is fair to allow players to be one shotted by people they can't even see/target.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Doesn't help the bane. |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
That's what smoke grenade is meant to mitigate. Dropping their perception range so you cannot be seen.
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| Also, I recall that even in the early days of PVP stalkers could still be seen, the event that turned me against PVP because I decided on my SR scrapper to just explore Bloody Bay, or it might have been Siren's, but a stalker tried to sneak up on me and readied his assassin's strike, but I could see him and thought: "Oh, he wants to fight me, okay, this should be fun." And I knocked him out of his AS with a well placed hit, he freaks out and begs to be let go, so I do. Then he comes back with brute buddy and they double team me and laugh. |
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^ Both of these.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Doesn't help the bane.
The reason you could see that stalker is that they were only relying on hide, and SR has +Perception in Focused Senses. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'll get a stealth IO one day anyway, just to beat those peasky Rikti Drones and KoAs! >_< Evil.
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Originally Posted by SmegHead
They'll still see you.
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Rikti Drones (and Rularuu Sentries - the eyeballs) ignore stealth entirely. They don't have increased perception (which would mean that, like Vanguard Sword, they aggro sooner), but they will always see you, even when you're at the stealth cap.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Placate is currently broken (and has been for a LONG time) for stalkers in PvP, and there hasn't been one-shotting stalkers in the game since i7. Not saying I agree with the OP, just clarifying that little bit.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Oh, also, /unsigned, OP, stalkers already have auto-hit ranged placate attacks. And I don't think it is fair to allow players to be one shotted by people they can't even see/target.
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"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Originally Posted by Reiraku
Placate is currently broken (and has been for a LONG time) for stalkers in PvP, and there hasn't been one-shotting stalkers in the game since i7. Not saying I agree with the OP, just clarifying that little bit.
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No, the most common stalker tactic I see these days is waiting until someone else softens you up and ASing you while your attention is focused elsewhere. If half your HP is already gone an AS will drop anything but a scrapper, tank, or brute.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Yeah, but that isn't one shotting, now is it?
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Hmm, I see a chance to be nitpicky...I'll take it! |
Originally Posted by Reiraku
Yeah, but that isn't one shotting, now is it?
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Technically, the stalker employed only one shot.
I'm not really that dense, just passing time at the moment.
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My point being: You were killed with one attack by someone you did not know was there. |
Originally Posted by Reiraku
Yeah, but that isn't one shotting, now is it?
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I remember stalkers oneshotting, it made me avoid PvP for over a year until I ran across the information that they couldn't do that any more. It still aggravates the hell out of me when I'm fighting someone and either get ASed out of nowhere or my opponent does. The stalker gets the rep and does almost nothing to earn it. It's especially annoying when it's a scrapper vs. brute fight in it's 7th or 8th minute that is ended in such a way.
My original point in response to the OP was that it is perfectly fair for a stalker to need a pool power and an IO to counteract the pool power and IO that was taken in order to see him.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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But you weren't killed with one attack, that just happened to be the one attack that killed you. If a blaster hits me with Flares, Fire Blast, and Blaze, then a Defender tags me with brawl and kills me, I don't say that I was one-shotted by a Defender with brawl.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My point being: You were killed with one attack by someone you did not know was there.
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"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Amp hide in pvp.
Makes no since for a stalker to need to get stealth pool and the stealth IO to be unseen.
And yeah i know it depends on the person perception. My domi has 759.50ft of perception so if a stalker only had Hide i could see it. And isnt a stalkers job is to hide?
long story short
Makes no sense that a stalker needs to waste a pool power/slot on Stealth