wow you really thought this through!
Being a big fan of Boba and Jango Fett, hell yah I'd be down for that!
I like it. Its different to all the other ATs we have. It'd sit nicely as a 'Neutral' AT, in that the character could be good or bad.
It'd need a helluva lot of balancing, I can tell that much for certain. But something suitably different would be a nice addition.
/Signed
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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As for the start of a "Vs. Undead" power: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Vetera...st_Slaying_Axe|
Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Now the people paying attention will notice that even with the choice of sets, that only brings the Primaries to 8 powers when there are 9 available to regular powersets. That's because I am suggesting a Global (to Bounty Hunters) Primary power - some kind of build-up which does the usual +Damage but instead of +ToHit, I'd like to see it increase damage vs Undead (There are no vs Undead powers anywhere else). Now I don't know if that's even possible. I'm just trying to be creative here.
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And...
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Undead_Slaying_Axe
I think it could work.
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ALso SHOTGUN!
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
As for the start of a "Vs. Undead" power: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Vetera...st_Slaying_Axe
And... http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Undead_Slaying_Axe I think it could work. |
It seems like it would be great for Going Rogue. Bounty Hunters aren't quite evil but not quite good. it would fit right in with all the rogue and vigilante stuff.
/signed
The only two things I don't like are the Bazooka (I'd change it to Grenade Launcher, personally) and the somewhat random idea of giving the set(s) bonus damage to undead. Keep in mind that undead also applies to ghosts, which otherwise resist lethal; there's no real reason for you to get anti-ghost bullets/rockets/bolts.
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My biggest problem with this idea is simply Redraw.
With only a few powers in each weapon/combat pool there's no posible way to build a character without it and have a real attack chain of any kind. You can't even make an unarmed character to eliminate redraw because there's only 1 unarmed set.
Redraw. Is. The. Devil. 
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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You could always program the powers to work with each other so the melee doesn't drop your weapon.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
My biggest problem with this idea is simply Redraw.
With only a few powers in each weapon/combat pool there's no posible way to build a character without it and have a real attack chain of any kind. You can't even make an unarmed character to eliminate redraw because there's only 1 unarmed set. Redraw. Is. The. Devil. |
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You realize that would make the animations for this set multiplicative, right? If you ever added a new set to the AT, you'd have to do (set work) x (number of current sets) more work.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
You could always program the powers to work with each other so the melee doesn't drop your weapon.
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Basically, it's why we don't have weapons work with power pools and secondary powers right now. It's a lot more additional work for the animators.
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BaBs did say he was working on it. The only problem with actually getting rid of redraw entirely was when it came to Shields, IIRC. So, it is in the pipeline. It just hit a U bend |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
You realize that would make the animations for this set multiplicative, right? If you ever added a new set to the AT, you'd have to do (set work) x (number of current sets) more work.
Basically, it's why we don't have weapons work with power pools and secondary powers right now. It's a lot more additional work for the animators. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yes I know but I was only worried about animations in the primary not the secondary.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
You realize that would make the animations for this set multiplicative, right? If you ever added a new set to the AT, you'd have to do (set work) x (number of current sets) more work.
Basically, it's why we don't have weapons work with power pools and secondary powers right now. It's a lot more additional work for the animators. |
After Masterminds I thought we would be used to new ATs that only gain new primaries when the stars align.
SWG here we come!
No really, I like the idea alot. To answer your question in the first line, there are two powers that offer a -mag. Benumb and Weaken I think are a %debuff to things like KB protection, hold protection, heals, etc.
I would think that a BH class should have some kind of AV debuff tied to them. It would be nice to have another option to tackle AVs without bringing along debuffing classes. Maybe something that scales with the toughness of the Mob (goes with the feel of the class - Targetting the most lethal in the group and weaken them)
I also don't think weapon redraw would hurt this class. It makes sense that you should have to draw your Rocket launcher or sniper rifle and put it away after you are done. But, I think Damage/End/Rech of each power should be better thought out. Instead of a 4 second attack chain of Blaze, Fireblast, Ball, Flairs - It could be a lot slower of *Use my Debuff gadget, Pull out my rocket for mass damage, Snipe the far left mob, Knife the boss for the win.
Anyways, yeah I do like the Idea. Then I can make an AE arc with a bunch of custom pets so I can recreate my Bounty Hunter + Creature handler from SWG
That's what we need!
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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Neither of those modifies mez magnitude in any way.|
Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
SWG here we come!
No really, I like the idea alot. To answer your question in the first line, there are two powers that offer a -mag. Benumb and Weaken I think are a %debuff to things like KB protection, hold protection, heals, etc. |
They're both a sort of Negative Power Boost. They debuff the duration of any Sleeps/Holds/Stuns/etc that your target uses after hit with the power. It doesn't alter the magnitude of those mezzes, and it doesn't alter the mob's mez protection any.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Unless they have changed something, they do lower your Mez protection in PvP. I also thought it works on AVs as well. I don't have numbers, but you can hold Rommy through triangles a lot easier with a cold than without.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Neither of those modifies mez magnitude in any way.
They're both a sort of Negative Power Boost. They debuff the duration of any Sleeps/Holds/Stuns/etc that your target uses after hit with the power. It doesn't alter the magnitude of those mezzes, and it doesn't alter the mob's mez protection any. |
... There is no mez protection in PvP. Only mez Resistance (which again, Benumb has no effect on).
As far as Romulus goes, I can't check the in-game numbers (on account of being on a crappy laptop that wont run CoH) but unless it's seriously bugged Benumb should make exactly zero difference on his mez protection.
Benumb (and Weaken) has this debuff:
•Stun, Sleep, Confused, Terrorized, Immobilize, Held, Knockback, Knockup, Repel -74.5% for 30s
That's -74.5%enhancement value to any mezzes your target *uses* it should in no way benefit mezzes you use on them.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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My understanding is that -mez protection is not possible. Basically mez protection and status effects are actually the same effect just different magnitudes. -Mez resistance should be possible though and would increase the duration of all other mezs used on the opponent.
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Is there an ability to add a -mag resistance/protection to a power?
Let me clarify this question: We have the ability to lower defence, ToHit, certain types of damage output, overall damage, resistance, movement speed, recharge speed, repel enemies, cause enemies to fall down, cause enemies to fly up, and cause enemies to fall away from us. They are secondary effects in quite a number of powers and, in some cases, are the primary effects in other powers. We also have the ability to buff stats, and protect/resist against effects. Therefore would it be possible to have attacks that, whilst not inducing holds, sleeps, fear, immobilise etc could reduce a mob's resistance to those effects? |
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Actually, it is. The only known case of it actually occurring (afaik), however, is the snipe attack that the Northern Lights from the Lord Winter raid use, which causes -KB/KU protection, allowing enough of them to actually knock back even IO'd out non-melee characters (i.e. those without massive KU/KB resist).
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
My understanding is that -mez protection is not possible. Basically mez protection and status effects are actually the same effect just different magnitudes. -Mez resistance should be possible though and would increase the duration of all other mezs used on the opponent.
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The aforementioned Benumb and Weaken both debuff the magnitude of protection powers.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
My understanding is that -mez protection is not possible. Basically mez protection and status effects are actually the same effect just different magnitudes. -Mez resistance should be possible though and would increase the duration of all other mezs used on the opponent.
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This is tricky, because they *also* debuff the *duration* of mez attacks. This can be confusing to players that don't understand how the game engine actually works.
Benumb and Weaken both reduce mez Strength - sleep, hold, stun, etc. Strength increases or decreases your ability to affect those attributes, just like damage strength makes your attacks hit harder. Hold enhancements increase your Hold Strength for the purposes of that one power that they are slotted into.
Importantly, enhancements and strength buffs/debuffs cannot be told to affect the Magnitude or the Duration of a power (specifically, an effect of a power). Its actually the *power* that gets to decide that. Every effect of a power is tagged as to whether its a Duration effect or a Magnitude effect. The damage in attacks is essentially always tagged as a Magnitude effect, so buffing damage strength increases the damage of those powers. Mez effects in mez attacks are almost always tagged as Duration effects, so Strength increases or decreases the duration of those effects.
Benumb and Weaken reduce your hold/stun/sleep/immobilize Strength, so when you attempt to use a hold attack or a sleep attack, the effects will have reduced duration. But mez protection powers like Integration and Practiced Brawler are *not* tagged that way: the protection effects are tagged as Magnitude effects not Duration effects. As a result, when you debuff a player's mez strength, you debuff the Magnitude of those effects.
In PvP, those powers offer Resistance and not Protection, but they are still tagged as "Magnitude" effects so debuffing them with Benumb or Weaken reduces their resistance values, not their duration.
(Its possible to debuff the duration of a toggle effect in theory, because all toggles are actually periodic "pulsing" powers: they apply an effect for a certain duration every tick of the toggle. Integration, for example, applies a mez protection effect every half second that lasts for three quarters of a second. Because the effect overlaps, the protection is "continuous." But if it were possible to debuff that duration by 50%, it would be granting a protection buff for 0.375 seconds every 0.5 seconds and there would be flickering gaps in the protection. But since the mez protection effects in Integration are Magnitude effects, not Duration effects, its literally impossible for any power possessed by anything to affect the Duration of those protection ticks. No player, no critter, not even a dev with debug rights can do that. That may even be *why* those effects were tagged as magnitude effects at the beginning of time: to prevent them from ever being debuffed in that way in the future even by accident.)
In any case, the answer to the general question: is it possible to debuff the magnitude protection of mez protection powers? The answer is yes, if the protection powers themselves are designed as magnitude effects, and most are. Conversely, there is no way, in the current game engine, to hit a target with a debuff that would turn all their mag 3 holds into mag 2 holds (short of some crazy power flag trickery). Holds have duration-based effects, and you can only debuff their duration. It is literally impossible for Castle to put any number anywhere that would create a power that could debuff the hold magnitude of (nearly all) hold attacks.
Each power (each effect in each power, actually) gets to decide for itself what you can buff or debuff, and it has to pick exactly one thing: magnitude or duration. It cannot pick both (or neither).
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This suggestion will start with a question!
Is there an ability to add a -mag resistance/protection to a power?
Let me clarify this question: We have the ability to lower defence, ToHit, certain types of damage output, overall damage, resistance, movement speed, recharge speed, repel enemies, cause enemies to fall down, cause enemies to fly up, and cause enemies to fall away from us. They are secondary effects in quite a number of powers and, in some cases, are the primary effects in other powers. We also have the ability to buff stats, and protect/resist against effects.
Therefore would it be possible to have attacks that, whilst not inducing holds, sleeps, fear, immobilise etc could reduce a mob's resistance to those effects?
If so, then I would like to propose the bare bones of a Bounty Hunter AT.
The Bounty Hunter has a choice of attack methods (their primary) and, like VEATs, can branch out. However, unlike VEATs I would suggest that weapons and weapon styles are unlocked as a character progresses and can be mixed and matched. The Bounty Hunter would have access to different styles of play via their choice of weaponry, armour and additional 'talents'. What they gain by coming close to being a Tank-Mage, they would suffer from redraw and longer animations.
Primary - Ranged
FIREARMS
Single Shot - single target, smashing/lethal damage, short recharge
Buckshot - cone, smashing/lethal damage, moderate recharge, knockdown
Sniper Shot - single target, smashing/lethal damage, interruptible, very long range, long recharge
Burst Shot - single target, DoT smashing/lethal damage, moderate recharge
CROSSBOW
Poison-Tipped Shot - single target, lethal/toxic DoT damage, moderate recharge
Quickshot - single-target, lethal damage (multi-hit), very short recharge
Stunning Shot - single target, minor smashing damage, high chance to stun, moderate recharge
Net Shot - single target, smashing damage, immobilise, long recharge
MISSILE LAUNCHER (BAZOOKA)
Volley - cone, fire/smashing damage, knockback, long recharge
Air Strike - Targeted AoE, fire/smashing damage, knockdown, very long recharge
EMP grenades - Targeted AoE, minor energy damage, chance to stun, +Special vs Robots, long recharge
Gas Missile - Targeted AoE, fire/toxic DoT damage, chance for hold, long recharge
Primary - Melee
COMBAT KNIFE
Slash - single target, lethal damage, -Def, short recharge
Blinding Strike - single target, lethal damage, -ToHit, moderate recharge
Nerve Strike - single target, lethal damage, slow movement, moderate recharge
Lash Out - cone, lethal damage, moderate recharge
STREET FIGHTING
Gut Punch - single target, smashing damage, -recharge
Headbutt - single target, smashing damage, stun
Roundhouse - single target, smashing damage, knockdown
Sweep - PBAoE, smashing damage, knockdown
STAFF
Electro Strike - cone, energy damage, long recharge, -end, +end
Flame Strike - single target, fire DoT damage, long recharge, -ice damage
Ice Strike - single target, cold damage, long recharge, slow, -fire damage
Sonic Strike - PBAoE, smashing damage, long recharge, -resistance
Secondary
GADGETRY
Targeting System - Toggle (Self), +Acc, +ToHit
Ghost Trap - Ranged, Immobilise, +Special vs Ghosts
EMP Field - Toggle (Self), -End, Chance to Hold, +Special vs Robots
Seeker Drones - Summon Pets, minor energy damage, Chance to Stun, -ToHit
Ghost Traps - Targeted AoE, Immobilise, +Special vs Ghosts
Neural Scrambler - Targeted AoE, -mag status protection, -mag status resist
CHARMS
Second Sight - Click (Self), +Acc, +ToHit
Banish Fey - Targeted AoE, Minor Energy DoT Damage, +Special vs Fey
Power Drain - Ranged, -End, -Recovery, +Special vs Robots
Maelstrom - Toggle (Self), -ToHit, -Range, Slow Movement, -Recharge
Coventry - Single Target, Ranged, Phase
Weaken Aura - Targeted AoE, -mag status protection, -mag status resist
ARMOURS
Bullet-Proof Vest - Auto (Self), +Def Smash/Lethal
Spirit Armour - Toggle (Self), +Res Energy/Negative, Immob/Knockback Protection
Neuro-Toxic Dampening Field - Auto (Self), +Res Toxic/Psi
Insulating Layer - Auto (Self), +Res Fire/Cold
Stealth Suit - Toggle (Self), +Def (All), -Movement Speed, Chance for Critical whilst stealthed
Right, that turned out to be a fairly long list of powers! So let me explain the way that these branching powers work:
A Bounty hunter can choose 3/6 of the primary sets (as there are only 4 powers in each set). This means either Firearms or Crossbows or Combat Knife or Street Fighting and Bazookas or Staff. So you could pick to be a mix of range/melee or just range or just melee.
Now the people paying attention will notice that even with the choice of sets, that only brings the Primaries to 8 powers when there are 9 available to regular powersets. That's because I am suggesting a Global (to Bounty Hunters) Primary power - some kind of build-up which does the usual +Damage but instead of +ToHit, I'd like to see it increase damage vs Undead (There are no vs Undead powers anywhere else). Now I don't know if that's even possible. I'm just trying to be creative here.
The Secondary choices are a little simpler. Choose 2/3 again but Armours is the only thing I could come up with as the 'final' part of the Bounty Hunter set.
I did dream up a brief yet unsatisfying (to me) series of powers in the secondary that have the ability to add extra damage to an attack (like a surefire proc in an IO set BUT with a VERY long recharge. So like a power boost but adding, say, cold damage to attacks for 10 seconds instead of boosting secondary effects, kind of thing).
I've also tried to keep the sets 'generic' enough for concept purposes although calling one set Charms might need a rethink. Perhaps simply calling it Powers or Talents could work?
Anyway, as I stated at the top of the post, this is a bare bones idea with scant regard for coding, actual numbers or (as a result of those two) balance!
Just pushing this out there to see what (if anything) comes from it.