About the Defense Soft Cap

How important is it to get all the to 45%?

If I have 44.5% Defense, am I going to notice a difference if I get the last .5%?

Not really, not in human perception. If you log results and pore over them, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

I wouldn't even worry about getting to 44.5%, honestly. I've noticed that survivability is about the same on my /SR scrapper whether I'm at 36% or at 43% def. This was against +2's and +3's as well. YMMV, unless you run into heavy def. debuffs then you've got very little to be concerned about. And if you're using /SR then debuffs aren't a problem for you anyway.

In what most of us consider normal play, no.

If you start pushing your survival to the limits, particularly when barraged by a large number of attacks or conducting a very long fight (such as soloing an AV/Pylon) you might.

On average, someone with 44.5% defense is suffering about 10% more damage/time than someone with 45%. If you're suffering very average low damage/time, then that probably doesn't matter. If you're pushing it to where you're actually suffering damage that could overcome your average regen (plus whatever else you might have), then it's possible that taking roughly 91% of that damage/time might mean the difference in victory or defeat.

If you're not pushing that kind of envelope, I wouldn't worry about the difference.

Mathematically, yes. Enormously yes.The way Defense works in this game means that it starts off almost utterly useless, but becomes exponentially more valuable with each extra point.

Look at it this way. If you have 40% defense, you've got a ten per cent chance of being hit by any given attack from a standard foe. If you have 45% defense, you've got a 5% chance of the same. That last 5% defense halved your chance of being hit, making it as good as the entire first 25% of defense you got.

What this means is simple. If you can't build up large defense numbers, you're better of not building up any numbers, and going instead for resistance. While the +3% defense from that IO is fantastic for, say, a Brute if it hits him the softcap, for a Blaster with no defense it is trivial.

Now in your case, the question is simple. Will the extra survivability offered by this bonus be worth the time invested to get that extra .5%? Do you die often enough to justify it?

If you're playing, say, a teaming Tank, then every little bit of hard-to-kill is worth it, no matter what it is. If you're a solo Blaster, then extra survivability is mostly irrelevant since if it lives long enough to make a difference something's already wrong.

it's actually not about survivability per se


the issue is Mez

as a Storm Summoning Defender I don't have the opportunity to take self mez protection

so, wanting to shut out as much as possible...

I worked out a couple of builds, almost all of it is in place already and I'm planning a final respec. One of the builds uses Combat Jumping with a BotZ set to get the final couple of points (and gets me immob protection, and at a very low end cost). The other build uses Maneuvers (I lose the immob protection, and have a high end cost, but gives my team another 5%) and gets me another LotG.

I also had to slot Defense in Hover and Steamy Mist to get all the way there, but it seems worth it, especially since it's also boosting my Melee and Psionic defense even.

Despite the end cost and loss of immob protection, I'm somewhat inclined to use the Maneuvers build, for the higher psi defense, the team defense and the LotG.

Here are the builds:


with CJ

Click this DataLink to open the build!

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1425;740;1480;HEX;|
|78DAA593C94F535114C6EFEB60A12D2DD002652E508632149AB87048344130D1504|
|3C0B8529B5A1EE525A525ED23919D5B158CAC4D71883BA386881A75E5C2B8F03F50|
|376EC561611C1353CF39DF2B6A5CFA927EBF7BCF3DC3BDB7E726CE4E78953A77506|
|9BE43D954B1989CD0E7F5DC9C5E70265219231D4CE8A69E2FE4B3F9CC4A386114CD|
|825E2CBA9452ED15BFE4F8F2FC7C6CD6CC171693B3CB8B8BF99C91CB8477566752B|
|98C3E179BCCEA69B360A453D9E4389531EB8EE416F4829E33639581673A9FCFC60E|
|678DCC82E9C5D8307354CD2D93D9255D9F837D4A4F2D518DD0E49291DE496C982BC|
|90425D60B2B21DA5E947EE76DCAFACA4AB510E2EAF66F93539508BDCAB6212BB6AB|
|02C735E0BA60D70DC11D8AD2AC28AD841544F910E543543DA2EA117597A2EC88B2D|
|BEF89A9714BD0731F7828B8487E4EF8D99C9B1A9BBA6E0922A3E2B0460E2E2B91EB|
|998D4D55CF811782AEA784805A25AD967D961DD54D346857EE61C9E03E407028551|
|B94BC8D0D824BE4EFB10A7B1E4826EF16F0587081B4060E5A4D443205816ADA8F1F|
|A59CFE97E25CFB4A107C2D88FC941251141C45410F45D55905EB101542541BA29CE|
|410405A15E8914A2E323558A686A334E85755646A82496B0A8B5708E8A69566ACD8|
|9A87C4D4F21736A94CAB75A25698DA80CB36BE2F9CA8FD134D22AAE38DD83A3E8A4|
|3C7B62002F728AE7C9DB413518E4EB444182D11BE09A017BA10C5B7DB6D15E97E8B|
|2640F63E64EF7B27E87F0F7C40D7D0A97AAD53F5E2DAFA706DFDB8B62BD4660356D|
|A01F467147507B1A741EC69106D3A8236DDA6773F64450D7D9644C35F80AFC037C1|
|C877E08760836AC5E43594EDB155318DAE01EB82388E5A22BF316BD363BBE5EF8F8|
|F0171419BE38FD759A64F4DFD639976EC3C3CA589E518FB20ED7F7D8FBC953CD533|
|6ED2E32CD324DA091E9D6439C5D3D33C4AF1E80C4B9AA7E527DECA4EFD7B78437B5|
|9F6B1EC67596527173F2D0F8B97A586C5C7E267A96509B034B2B4B09458CABF007D|
|E8190E|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1429;746;1492;HEX;|
|78DAA593C94F53411CC7E7BDB6962EB49416287B0B65294BA189262E892608261A6|
|A08184F6A53CB505E52DE23AF8F446E5E55307236C525DE8C1A226AD41307E3C1FF|
|40BD78159783714D4CFD2DAFA8F1E84BFAFDCCFCE6B7CD7426736EDC2FC4F943420|
|91C2EE64AA5ECB89C93FAAC345D995C41CB4732D2928669148DC2722CA3952C5396|
|4A6E21447BD52F3BB63437979AB10C73213BB3B4B060E89A5E88EDAC4EE7F4829C4|
|D4D1465DE32B57CAE981D833256E8A83E2F4DA95BA9EAC0376518C5D491A25698B7|
|FC3CD62C1DAA796932B328E56C9086933207994BF3DA62746251CBEFE4D6ACE56C0|
|6724B73390A1D26E1774115F65711A2059016777E9B5CA20CE811EA3AADA8D708CE|
|EB8C1B845D370977214AB1A39432AF705480A3021C55CF51F51C750FA21C1CE570D|
|C2753E326A1FB01E311E112F8B9D84F756D28688ADF262446C861151CDC7622F733|
|154D35CF192F08F12D4058AC807AA8CF8AD3D3048376E11DA20CDE8300A7107511C|
|ADBD840B80CFE3EBBB0EF2165F26F329E102E82D6B283529BA04C118607FA097229|
|57F02539D7BD22445E13123FA944920B8E70411F4485EC82218E8A72541B47B9C02|
|1CC6945B89B2AB9C1D4609B1A8EC1A04FD480A9894D4A538CBCA28C2E5869E615B5|
|79904C2D7F6103CAB4DA3B6A65531BE38A8AE7C53B6AFF049384E87843B68E8FE4D|
|0B14D48B07B928F7C0DB493A39C9D7C25627C2562B7187C17E21C85A7DB6517E97A|
|CB9780B3F772F6DE7784BEF78C0F8410ECAAC7DE550F1F682F1F68DF1EFC5F1DE22|
|ADCB37E3B6F3F5FD024171EE0A606B8A901BEA7C37C4FB7E1ED0FDA51839FE90F18|
|FAC2F8CAF84618FECEF84158875A297A0E15476A854C23AB8C35429AF75A06BF51B|
|BEBD1DDD46E7A949126B439FF789E15F8C4E43F9629E7CECB130A598EA30FA7FDAF|
|EFB1BF9AC733ED053D813205A29CC4D12994D3383D83A31C8ECEA2E4715A79EAAF7|
|61ADC8B0DED43D98F720065059DDCF8B67C287E945A94004A10A50E258CD288D282|
|5246A9FC0298CD17EC|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Read the guide in my sig.

of course this all raises the question, should I have instead of building for the ranged soft cap, build for very high range, and significant Psi defense...

it's not a very different build, slot a couple Devastation instead of Thunderstrike. Lose that last 5% to Range and gain more than 7% more to Psi, bringing Psi up over 25%. That's a tricky question.

edit: im ignoring purples and pvp ios intentionally

edit 2: actually, looking at it again, if I Really wanted to go for Psi Defense I would need to build somewhat differently, to have Scirroco's in Short Circuit (didn't take it), and some other sets including Devastation.

That would mean a lot more change than I had planned. Not sure whether that would be worth it. I'm sure I couldn't softcap Psi, but I might be able to get 30% or 35%, and still keep Ranged over 35%.

Storm/Electric Defender, taking point for 8 person TF teams and soloing standard content (set to At Least +1 x2).

You won't notice the difference between 44 and 45 in that circumstance. Probably.

You WILL notice the difference between 36 and 45, oh yes you will.

Whats the scrapper challenge in rwz? I have an elec/sd scrapper with 50.3% melee def, s&l def is 20%, and s&l resist is 33% and 142% rech. I'd love to try that challenge.

It's still not exponential. Your damage admittance is proportional to (1-2*defense). The decrease in the ratio of new over old admittances does accelerate the closer you get to 45% defense (where the toHit calculation's 5% floor halts it), but that acceleration isn't exponential. Exponential implies that your admittance decreases as some constant raised to the power of your defense (or perhaps (1-DEF)), and that's definitely not the case.

First off, I realize the value of soft-capping, and attempt to do some sort of it on nearly every toon I build these days. I agree with you guys that getting closer and closer to the softcap is more and more valuable, especially as far as debuffs (and mezzes)--paramount among them, defense debuffs--are concerned. But...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emberly Sure it is. Let me show you using your numbers. So it took 25% defence to double your survivability, starting from 0 defense. Now it only took 5% to double your survivability, starting from 40% defense. So, the last 5% really is as good as the first 25% as far as making you live longer, which is what counts. Thanks to Dechs Kaison, who pounded this into my brain with his amazing guide.

25% defense stopping 250 DPS (terminology simply for the purposes of this exercise) is stopping five times as much damage as (the 5% 40-45) stopping 50 DPS. "Doubling your survivability" is a claim that can only be made with regard to how much DPS you can withstand naturally. If 100 DPS won't kill you, then 50 DPS doesn't "double your survivability."

I beg to differ that Dechs Kaison's guide is "amazing." The discussion of the probability of multiple hits only considers one opponent at a time, something rare in CoX except for the last boss/EB/AV standing. It doesn't take into account how fast enemies die--only the boss discussion supplies a somewhat plausible number of attacks gotten off by the critter in a solo fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison This is incorrect. In truth, the last 5% provides exactly the same mitigation as the first 40%. Please refer to my guide (in the sig) for mathematical proof.

There is no mathematical proof--the math itself is invisible in the post.