PvP Revamp

COH/COV PvP and Zones

Ok i recently returned to the game because many of the issues and complaints people had before have been fixed with flying colors... but there's one minor bit left....


Ever since i started playing i have heard to big complaints. PvP and Zones. So over the course of a year me and some friends put together some incredible ideas that takes care of both issues in one go as well as some smaller but still important issues.

So here is the idea.

Backstory

Upon searching surrounding areas some recent discoveries were made. Recluse in his search for power discovered an ancient floating tropical island rich in mysterious ancient magic and home to many amazonian warriors. Using technology he was able to force the island to sit in one place and end its floating across the seas so he could spend time researching it and taking the magic hidden there.

Around the same time During an underwater expedition some young heroes discovered an underwater city believed to be Atlantis just near where the new island was. With the governments permission they have set up shop here and begun researching the ancient technology.

Very shortly after a strange cloud formation floated just above these two new locations. It turns out this is an ancient city still inhabited by ancient ancestors of the orient. They have built a massive floating city using both ancient technology and magic. Boats float about the city flying where they should not be able to.

Both sides naturally wish to take this location before the other, yet a battle quickly ensues for control of this floating city. The natives of the floating cloud city have taken a neutral stance on this matter and service those who come to the city with various services.

Lord Recluse searched frantically for something to give him a quick advantage to ensure his control of the city but only found an ancient underground city where villains now search for ancient items of wealth.


Zone Mechanics/Explanation

This first serves to open new zones for each side and add some more variety to the scenery. And yes it does give the villains 1 more zone than the heroes get but this is to help with the complaint that villains don't get enough zones like the heroes.

The reason the villains are on the tropical island is to give a more light zone for all the villain players sick of dark and dreary, though the underwater city will also be beautiful in its own ways as people will be able to look up and sea fish and occasional whales and submarines etc swimming above them through the glass domes.

First off the underground city for villain side will be set up so that people of all level ranges are capable of doing stuff there and will be broken up so essentially the deeper you go the more powerful the foes and missions etc...

The other locations however are more limited. The island and underwater city will be for individuals 35+. The Floating island will be for individuals 40+.

The Floating island will serve as center stage. It will essential serve as the PvP battleground but will work differently from previous PvP in CoX.

Cloud City, PvP System

Cloud City as i have chosen to call it will be split up into three sections. Each side has their own section that remains theirs permanently. Then in the middle will be what shall be essentially no man's land.

What will happen is each side has missions stores etc they can use. However the really good stuff is in the middle section. What will henceforth happen is every say 1-5 hours a warning will go off to each side informing them the gates are about to open. About 10-15 min after the warning the gates will open and each side will have access to the middle. What then happens is each side must work their way to the other side and kill a "champion" in the other sides section. This will give that side temporary rights to the center area until the next time the gates open.

While the gates are open the inhabitants will "hide" except for npc combatants who will remain out in the open. After one side has taken the middle are by defeating the other sides "champion" the other npc's will re-appear. During this time they will have access to special missions, trials and stores, and trainers that they can earn new rewards from. These will be unique to this area rewards to promote this pvp style and make pvp more enjoyable.

If one side is the victor say perhaps 3 times in a row then an auto balancing system will activate. The losing side will then receive reinforcements until they have won at least once and gotten some access to the center for a little while, though victory in this fashion will disable some of the shops and missions. Then the game will record the results of a month and set adjust the npc's and "champions" based on if one side remains to unbalanced in win-lose ratio (like a 200-1 win ratio or some such). Though it will not adjust it to be completely equal but allow the victors to still win more often if they are indeed more skilled. This may also be monitored by dev perhaps for further adjustments if needed.

This zone will only be accessible via the floating island and underwater city. Also this is not a single floor structure but will have 4 or 5 floors. There will be three staircases/elevators. One on each side and one in the middle. Of course fliers and tpers can take the other route.... go off the side and move up or down to the other floors....

Rewards, Training, PvP Exp

The reward system will be unique as it will give rewards such as base items, costume pieces and best of all a new set of skill tracks!

For examples completing certain mission tracks, and trials or badge accomplishments in this area may unlock a base item or a costume piece.

Some of these costume pieces will be unique in the fact that one reward an individual can earn is an extra accessory slot which they can have up to 3 of. Some pieces they can earn in this zone will be place-able in that slot. This may be a single tattoo on one arm, an extra belt that goes on crooked, a hair accessory or some jewelry among other possibilities. The special thing about these slots is each piece in these slots will have at least two way/locations you can wear them or more... That way say you want a bracelet on just your left arm or just your right or on both... or even on your ankles, then one of these items a bracelet for example will have each of these spots....

These items as well as the slots will not be easy to get. For instance the slots will be apart of the new trainers system.

These new trainers want nothing to do with you until you are lvl 50. (This will take care of some of the issues with people complaining there is nothing to do once you hit 50). What happens is once you hit 50 you earn a separate type of experience for every pvp kill you do in this zone and for completing mission tracts or trials in this zone. First though you will need to talk to one of these special trainers who will explain things to you and give you a badge and you will start earning the exp for the 'pvp' skills.

Now for those who despise pvp but still want access to some of the perks but not all (skills wont be available this way) then they can spend merits using the new merit system... but they still have to go to cloud city center to access the only npc who gives that stuff out... so in essence people will still need to take it over so their side can get access... and those who want nothing to do with pvp will just have to wait for their side to get access before they can spend their merits... now it would likely be a second npc standing next to the original who takes merits instead of 'pvp currency'

As you then earn this exp you will be able to return to the trainer and put it towards new skills and costumes slots among other things. These will each be expensive and not be easy to get and will be progressively harder to earn... the new skills will be in two kinds, the base ones every on gets that change your base stats, and depending on their skill set they will have different ones of the second kind. Also some of the second kind are dependent on your class, for example a tank may get a minor heal they can use outside of combat on themselves but with a long recharge. These skills will not have slots on them for IO's and whatnot but will have their set stats apart from a few that will have different levels you can train them up to. Also some of the stronger ones will require you to have a certain level of some of the earlier ones.

Now for the costume slots you can train/earn from these trainers will be something everyone can love. Not only will you get at least 3 slots but here is what they do. Slot one and two are basic accessory slots however slots 3 is special. Slot 3 will give you a costume piece you use with your travel powers. For instance fliers may get different flying posses, or stand on say a sword or guitar to fly. SS will get motorcycles or special boots etc etc... jumpers can get colored trails behind them as they jump or heck use a super pogo stick.... all kinds of things can be done for the travel power costume slots.

However once you train these slots you will still need to earn or buy the parts for these. Some you can buy at the stores in this zone with your exp you earn in this zone after 50. Others will have to be earned the old fashioned way, missions badges etc...

This will also include new base items people can earn, for example doorways, or extra floors, and stairs/elevators!!! And new decorations, perhaps ponds lava pits, spike pits, rocky non flat walls and cavern like scenery/rooms (ya make your own batcave lol), grass, glass ceilings looking out into a sky cavern or water, and windows as well, or cracks and small holes looking out into various scenery outside the base.

Further Ideas


One: improve the graphics engine. This is a must, the graphics will need improving to compete with the other hero game.

Now as I'm sure the dev's want to put it out free as everyone else does. But this thing is big. Give it as a free download to current players. But, put it on the shelves in stores as a new expansion for the game with the complete game of course. This way new people don't look and see CoX, they see CoX with the new expansion! It may also bring many of the ex-players back. Many people do not check a website to see if the game has any new good updates. Many just browse stores or reviews for new games. If they see "Expansion" they will know something new, different, and good has happened with their old game. They will then pick up the box or review and read it, hopefully followed by re-activating their account.

Debrief

So in essence this does many things. Adds more variety to bases and costumes and powers. Adds new zones with new scenery. Adds a drastically improved pvp system and gives all those 50's something to do finally without increasing the level cap.

i hate to say it but this game is not about PvP. and with only 1-3% of the population actually PvP'ing i highly doubt the devs will spend a lot of time on things for PvP. i am one of the PvP'ers and i to would love to see more for PvP but i just don't see anything happening to it.

Nice idea, just gonna get that out there

Im pretty sure the scope of this is too big for the game, this idea could be the general focus of its own game in itself

1-3% plays because the pvp is horrible so they lost alot of players who went elsewhere for their pvp needs... fix the pvp and we get mor eplayers... wouldn't have to change the old pvp (cause some people like the old pvp) but would add another type that would bring more players


yes and no to it bein large in scope... recently warhammer online added a very similar aspect to their game as an expansion... it went well with the warhammer populace though the glaring issue the game had as a whole turned alot of them away nonethe less.... adding this aspect to CoX could very well double the CoX population based on how many people i have talked to and or know who enjoy this style of pvp... and or would play CoX again or for the first time if there was more to the pvp as well as more end game content...

Nice intentions but I don't think that a new zone will bring PvE people into the PvP fold.

From what I can see of why PvP isn't popular at all is partly perceived failings and the technical failings of PvP within CoX.

As it stands I believe PvP will always be unpopular within CoX until PvP is truly integrated within the game proper.

This means that PvP must be instilled within the game proper instead of acting as a mini game of CoX.

This also means the PvP rulesets must have as few deviations from the PvE ruleset (or vice versa if you wish to view it the opposite way).

If you look at the way that the CoX game system is supposed to expose you to more of the game's rules and richness as you level up (in essence a training regimen), PvP absolutely fails on this aspect because NONE of it gets thrown in at any stage, and most players will just bypass it without ever knowing it exists. The game's managers/devs/publishers need to get over the timidity of making so much stuff optional, as they put it.

The AHs and IOs were put in as being optional yet everyone gets invention salvage drops and it is pretty much integrated with buying and selling of stuff, yet there is nothing along the path of PvP to be worked into the normal course of a player's growth in CoX.

While it's great that the devs choose to put in sidestreets and alleyways for players to explore, PvP is the red-headed step child of CoX that gets the beats whenever any power is fixed/nerfed.

By the time the average player gets to the point of realizing PvP exists, they are usually so inept at it that most of them get turned off because the moment they try PvP they get whupped/griefed and sometimes trashed talked out of the zone.

Almost every player will start out by making toons that function totally fine if not great in PvE yet will never be competitive in PvP. While you can say it is the poor player who blames the game for his/her own failings, the ultimate failing is that the devs have never concentrated enough on PvP to even document things for the average player.

They've pretty much left it up to the rare PvP stars who are gracious enough to lend a hand to the rare newb who's ego isn't bruised enough to refuse help. That's the 1-3% that's left for PvP.

Once CoX integrates PvP so people get an early taste of it while they level, and that the rules actually make some semblance of conformity with PvE, then people will actually try PvP instead of shunning it. As it stands, every zone is a 'pro' zone, where the best players not only have a significant advantage, but also know the rules inside and out.

After that adding zones to fight over would be neat.

i have to admit i do agree with you... which is much why i suggested such things as reward systems the way i did... would you not fight to get access to a zone so you could pick up new costume accessory slots... or add to your skill set strength? or change your travel power animation?

with that in mind that is why the pvp aspect would involve fighting for access to a zone where you can get this stuff.... in that way people would want to fight there to earn the points and gain access to the zone center so they can purchase the stuff.......

cause in many ways the pvp is broken on this game because it lacks a true goal.... badges ar ecool and all but do you realy crave them that much... no only a badge ***** does... so give people such real rewards and a goal they fight over to get those rewards then vuala people will become intrested and even those sheltered players will hear about it and then strive to get into it....

see where i am coming from? it is much like what you described... it does need meat to it... the zone isn't there to fight over... you need access to purchase the rewards with the new currency....

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Edit: I updated the rewards system a bit.... this new system is based on a suggestion from Rangle M Down... now some of the stuff but not all (skills are exempt) will also be purchasable in cloud city central with merits as well, rather than 'pvp currency' only... that way people dont have to play pvp to get most of the stuff but still have to wait for their side to gain access before they can purchase the stuff
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adding rewards didn't do anything for PvP other then make it a death fest. if people do not want to PvP they are NOT going to no matter how attractive you make PvP. as for changing animations... do you understand exactly how much work would have to be put in to make sure that those animations worked with every power in the game?

also it is not the goal that makes PvP broken. it is the changes that were made without taking into account what the PvP community thought that broke PvP.

when suggesting rewards being added to something you have to keep in mind that they have to be available for eveyone and not everyone is going to give a hoot about PvP. as long as that remains constant the devs will not make changes. it isn't worth the time to program to them.

that's because they didn't add any real rewards for one and two they didn't add any real goal to pvp.... it's just a run in and kill whatever you see nothing to strive for.... my gods i wish people would just read everything i say rather than just parts of what i say... see you can't just add rewards or add new zones or add a new style of pvp with a real goal you have to do all of it... otherwise it's pointless... its like a bridge.... you take out the cables or the road or the poles and it falls apart

I hate to say it, but at this point I don't see PvP coming back to life in this game. There are so few PvPers left that the development money would serve more people by adding new PvE content. Even after they added PvP only rewards all that happened was a small number of people started to farm them. The majority of the player base didn't care. All adding new PvP zones will do is spread out the few remaining PvPers across more zones.

the main reason it isn't coming back is because not only are some people being so freakin negative about it but a few get anti pvp because they have a bad experience and try to poke holes in even the best ideas... the sad part is when they start tryin to poke holes where there aren't any... 98% of what i hear is someone saying hey look if you look at only this sentance you're wrong.... but then when you point out where you explained/fixed that already they just come back with well you're wrong if you only look at this sentance... seriously get a life....

i like the idea, except the 1-5 hours i think it should just be rounds that maybe last 5 minutes.

PVP is so un-popular because there's no PVPers. When the game was released there was no PVP. So people who only play for PVP didn't want to play. After it was added more PVPers started to play only to find that the PVP is bad. If devs spent more time on PVP it could be greatly improved which would bring in a bigger and wider gamer community.

I believe Empire is correct that a clear majority of the population in COX doesn't necessarily enjoy PvP, and quite likely never will. Design is a big part of the reason, though, why the percentage who enjoy PvP in this game is as miniscule as it is.

First impressions count, and COX PvP was designed from the ground up to make a poor first impression. A *lot* of players are likely to get their first taste of PvP in COX by entering a PvP zone for a PvE reward. Then they get ganked because they have no idea what they're doing, and perhaps they also trash-talked.

Its kind of like having somebody suggest that you can find some cash laying about if you take a long walk down a dark alley filled with well armed gang members who you have zero chance of fighting back against and who'll jump you any chance they get. And that its supposed to be fun to do that. Of those who even go at all--and a lot of people won't bother, just as I never have--what percentage of those who go will like that dark alley afterward? Plus, once a player has decided to cut PvP zones out of their travels, because of the impression that its a "dark alley" or some equivalent, they're unlikely to re-visit that decision.

If the devs had wanted to make PvP popular, trying to induce PvE players to offer up their characters as bait to PvPers was probably not one of their better choices. The results of such efforts should have been obvious.

Honestly, the OP now has me interested...

Ive been playing cox since issue 4, and i don't pvp. I go to the zones every now and then, but mostly, its just a zone in, hit invis, and grab a nuke/shivan/temp/whatev

Do i have a problem fighting vils or other heroes, absolutley not! i understand that going to a pvp zone, i might get ganked. Ive fought the occassional fight and won and lost. But the reason i dont SEEK THIS OUT, is because, what in the world is the point? Sure i could perchance get a nice purple and make, oh god....a billion influence? or i could slot said purple and only gain a significant boost to more pvping. Again, theres not really a point in that to me.

But, if there actually was a point to going to a pvp zone, winning costume peices, getting a really nice temp power (which i realize we already have coughwarburgcough) a special type of PVE enhancement that can only come from the selected zone, or hell even a really substantial, if not hard to get, amount of xp, you know what, i would go.

I know people have a bad taste in their mouths about pvp. people dont like losing a fight in this game to an actual other person...actually a lot dont like losing a fight period. But what if there was actually a point to it, as the OP is suggesting? what if you got something really cool to use in game, for whatever you deemed you wanted to play against, and not something that only enhanced your pvp prowess?

What if you were required to be on an 8-man team before going into this "cloud city" (i forgot what the "battle arena" was called, sorry ) as were your opponents. What if there was a way to make sure that you were evenly matched before you went to fight. Or take a page from the new field analyst system, and let players pick EXACTLY, or as close as they can, how they want to be treated fight wise on their pvp team? I would definitely go and form a team to come here and beat up some vils and if the rewards were general, and awesome enough, im sure others would too

As the OP is trying to get across, make it something to look forward to, give a pvp zone a reason to go to it and accept the risks and deal with them, not run away. Dont give pointless badges that only a few care about, dont give specialized enhancements that make the game better mostly only for pvpers. Work with the best game mechanic we have right now, teaming. it works with everything else, Almost everyone joins teams regularly. Why not import it to pvp under slightly more controlled circumstances

Oh my, i think im starting to rant
Appologies if i got incoherrent

I think one problem i have goin right now is people think i'm a pvper trying to make more pvpers... that is wrong... i am a pve player by heart... pvp is usualy something i do to kill a couple mins or after i've hit the max lvl and done all the end game content... but if there isnt even any sort of goal or order to it i see no point.... i tried pvp on here once and was disgusted... it was boring... so i'm trying to come up with something that us pve players might enjoy... so please stop treating this as a selfish idea from a pvp player cause its not...

and as pyroguy has pointed out i am thinking some sort of control mechanisms would be great.... i will think on this than throw my ideas out for the control mechanisms...

oh and if you pvp haters would actualy look.... 70% of the content in this is pve zones.... woe to all if i leave out the pve players... geeze think sometimes... the pvp aspect is just more complex so it took more explaining but most of this content is still pve stuff sheesh

hate to tell ya, but 90% of the responses, if not 100%, have come from PvP'ers. and as one of the PvP'ers, i can tell you from experience that no matter what you do to PvP, those that do not want to do so are not going to. and what pyro is talking about with making everything even is exactly what the devs tried to do with i13 and look at the results. people didn't go into PvP, people left the game. moral of the story, if you do not PvP 100% of the time, do not make suggestions to change PvP. that is how we have the craptastic system we have now.

The problem isn't that there is anything wrong with PvP (there is, but that's not my point here)

The problem is that the game started with no PvP at all, and remained that way for a while. The majority of the playerbase, especially the veterans, are not playing to PvP. That isn't what drew them to the game, and they could give the south end of a northbound rat if it even exists.

Adding a bunch of new PvP stuff to do will not, and never will, draw in players who are just plain not interested in PvP. If you start forcing those players to PvP in order to get PvE rewards a lot of them will quit the game, rather than be forced into something they don't enjoy.

I occasionally PvP and I enjoy it, because it is optional. If I were forced into it to gain PvE rewards it would quickly lose it's appeal to me. I didn't have any villains at all for a long time because one of the requirements for an accolade was to spend 5 hours in a PvP zone, whether I was interested in PvPing with that character or not.

We will probably see some kind of PvP additions to the game, butnothing nearly as elaborate as the OP outlines. The devs are very unlikely to spend that amount of time and resources on something that only 2% of the game population will use. Especially when it is time and resources that can be used to make content that 95% of the population will use.

The bottom line is, any MMO is a business first. If it did not make money, it would not exist. Pleasing the most people they can with their decisions is how an MMO continues to make money. Look what happened to Star Wars Galaxies, and Tabula Rasa. One is on life support after several bad decisions drove off most of the players, and the other no longer exists in any form. Spending resources on something that that small of a percentage of the playerbase will use just isn't a smart business decision.

I understand that CoH doesn't exist to please me, it exists to earn NCSoft money. Pleasing the players is just the best way to do that. Force-feeding PvP to a playerbase that has demonstrated that they aren't interested in it (by completely ignoring it) is not going to please them.