Temporary PvP zone. Fight for the control!

I briefly mentioned this in another thread several weeks ago, but wasn't sure if anyone had really seen/read it. So with that thought in mind, I'm restating it in it's own thread with hopefully a little more fleshing out.


Concept: A NEW zone or zones that, for a limited time period, are set to PvP mode. During that time, heroes and villains fight over control of the zone. Once the PvP time is up, the "winning side" will take control of the zone till the next event. During the controlled phase, there would be specific content shaded towards the zones alignment, including badges and possibly a task force. (You want the zone badges, you better help get it to your side.) There would also be content during the open phase (PvP), just like in the normal PvP zones.


Details: I admit I'm still a bit sketchy on the mechanics for the PvP game that would decide the zone's controlling side. That's mainly because I keep going back to either a capture the flag type game, or strictly a measure of hero vs. villain defeats. I'm not sure either of these would be the best way of handling this. (Sigium had posted an idea here that would work well with this concept and it was in his thread is where I'd initially mentioned my idea as a twist to his.)

• Definitely during the PvP portion, the zone(s) would be auto ex'd/ssk'd in a similar fashion to the AE missions.
• I'd start off with the events happening between 3-4 weeks after the previous event. With the time between set randomly to make it harder for any one group to "camp" while waiting for the PvP portion to start.
• Of course if it gets later in the 4th week that idea goes out the window.
• I'd have the windows open anywhere between 24-48 hours, but never the same amount consistently.
• The loosing side would be "ejected" in the same manner we get bumped from the Mother Ship raids.

Counter-proposal--how about making the PvP zones temporarily PvE zones? Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? That's because PvP zones are made for PvP. Just like PvE zones are made for PvE. Don't try to mix the two. It just pisses off the PvE'ers and further spreads out the playing field for the few remaining PvP'ers. Terrible, terrible idea.

I want to make sure there aren't any assumptions being made here -
Are you talking about a *current zone* being shifted, or a *newly made* zone which would shift thanks to PVP mechanics?

The first, honestly, isn't worth talking about - it's just not a good idea. (Bad enough in Paragon, but absolutely crippling in the Isles with far fewer zones.)

The second, though... could be interesting. Creating a new zone that - basically - takes the Siren's Call mechanic of "control" and expands it beyond just "Is my side's store open?"

It would, honestly, have to be one of five states - all Villain, mostly VIllain, grey, mostly Hero, all Hero. (This would *have* to get reset as well, generally during server maintenance. I'd say the several weeks is just too long. ) in the "All (faction)" state, there's no PVP because the other side's not allowed in. There are more PVE missions, you can plant "traps" for if the other side takes over (which themselves don't last past server maintenance,) "Mostly (faction)" means the other side can sneak in, but resources are limited, while some control side resources are cut off. "Grey" (hard to shift out of, really,) is a PVP/PVE zone.

I wouldn't argue with this.

But... and there's always a but or ten...

1. There's just not much of a PVP population. This has to be faced, no matter what.

2. The zones themselves may not get much use because of PVP power rules. They can be *vastly* different (there's *zero* hold protection, for instance,) and I can see that being... well, unpopular when someone's trying to do some of the PVE missions.

3. Contacts - if you end up with a full-control contact arc, log off, and come back to 'Villains control (zone name,)" you're stuck with a story slot that cannot be cleared (other than a drop.) If you don't want to deal with PVP... you're stuck, and that'd be another strike against the zone's popularity.

4. Community friction. Related to several of the above - as soon as someone runs in to do a mission and gets AS'd by a stalker - whether they're killed or not - they're going complain. It happens NOW with BB, RV, and Warburg. Putting the content in isn't going to magically convert PVEers to PVPers. Some will try it and stay, sure. Others will try it and leave, still others won't set foot in it to begin with. That's not a guess, that's history, that's the way things have been since the zones came out.


I'd think the only way to get a "shifting control" zone to work where more people would participate would be as a set of zones. You'd have the main "Competitive Co-op" zone - both factions have their own missions (countering each other,) but there's no direct PVP. A portal or something takes you to a PVP zone, where you can fight for (say) artifacts, control, etc. and affect the zone. There would also be a separate hero and villain zone connected to it, where running missions and/or a Task/Strike force can alter something in the "hub" zone, as far as control. Maybe contacts open, maybe buffs, who knows.

See my Guides and Tutorials

This is a great idea, although I wouldn't limit it by such a huge margin. Every three to four weeks? WAY too long! Each side only needs a little time to get done with the zone.

I'll give an example from a game most of you hate: WoW.

Wintergrasp is a controllable PVP zone, and was WoW's first "open world" PVP zone (instead of being an instanced battle ground). It's pretty epic.

You fight for the control of Wintergrasp Keep (WoW does this by utilizing their "vehicle" mechanic, which replaces your powers with a set of powers specific to the vehicle you are driving; this is not necessary in CoH, but would be interesting!).

When a faction controls the zone, everyone of that faction (whether they participated or not) gets a global +experience buff in Northrend (the continent where Wintergrasp is located), and there is a dungeon in the castle there that's only available to the winning faction. Every few hours, a new battle can be fought and control may or may not swap. If no one participates in the battle, the previous winner wins by default and keeps the buff/dungeon control. It is not uncommon to see control switch sides several times a day.

It's REALLY fun, and this is coming from someone who generally hates PVP (because I am terrible at it).

http://www.wowwiki.com/Wintergrasp - lots more info on Wintergrasp. If City did this, they wouldn't have to copy it, code line by code line, but Wintergrasp is an example of a highly successful controllable PVP zone.

*puts on flame retardant suit* OK, WoW-haters, lay in! I'm ready!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Hey Memphis. The idea is the second one, a new zone. I wouldn't want to set this across the rest of the game in spite of others reading it that way. (I thought I'd made that clear in the opening statement. I guess not. ) It would be something specific to the concept. The 3-4 weeks between events was a starting point to gauge initial reaction. Not opposed to having it occur more often.

1. True, there isn't much of a PvP population here. Although it's stretching it to think it would bring some of them back or add more, I think it might garnish a bit of interest in that community. I mentioned it to a friend of mine who does PvP in the game and he liked the concept.

2. The reason I went with the three modes was to make clear delineations of when the PvP power rules were in effect. Leaving it so the rules only occurred during the Grey time frame as you put it. I would hope that it would get more use then some zones: Boomtown for instance. Unfortunately I could be quite sadly mistaken.


3. Valid points about the contacts and people getting frustrated by not being able to do missions in the zone if it's owned by the other faction. But if the information is up front about the possibility of not being able to finish things because of faction changes that has to be considered by the player as part of the risk/reward for being in that zone. Same with any of the PvP zones currently.


4. Unfortunately, community friction will occur no matter what anyone does. (Just spend a few minutes reading the unnecessarily vitriolic and bile filled responses that litter the forums.) Again, part of the reason I want to limit the PvP aspect into the form I have is to avoid the AS'ing by stalkers etc. when the zone is owned by the one side or the other in an attempt to limit such friction. But as with any other PvP zone, when it is the open "Grey" season, it's still open season.

Didn't Guild Wars have some sort of similar Idea.

An area that unlocked for the world region that was currently the 'champion'. I recall seeing a lot of 'Asia/Europe/Americas have won the ...' there was something about a Hall of Heroes too.

<edit>
Hmm a whole series of PvP tiers.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Heroes%27_Ascent

i made a suggestion about this some two years ago.....

i recently brought it back up with added changes to reflect how much the game has changed... it's very similar to your idea in fact =D i just fleshed things out a little more

Link: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...11#post2507811

Okay. I love the idea. Some thoughts however...

1) Not 3-4 weeks.

2) Yes to TF and SF, but all in instant missions that negate the PvP DR/Mez Protection/Use rule.

However, your side just needs to be in control to talk to the contact. Once you start the TF or SF, you get to keep using the contact, even if the other side takes control.

3) It opens a store to which ever side is in control. In that store, a person can buy ONE PvP IO RECIPE A DAY, at the store for 500k-1million influnece. Remember, just one a day. I'd be willing to even say limit it to account. One blue and one red. Or maybe just one toon per server period.

However they could get one on every server.

4) Yes to instance (no hunt, just like the TF/SF) missions, given to you by a contact in the zone.

However, that's right, you can only get a new mission when your side is in control. If your side loses control, you have to get control back before you can continue with that contqct.

5) Badges...always in the same spot...but blue side can only get them when they're in control and vice verse.

This idea I support for a new zone! This would be fun! And the PvE crowd would only be hampered by hoping they can get all they want to get done, done in time!

I love it! It's not like anyone would be forced to do the PvE content.

And I can just imagine the fun of trying to start the TF/SF.

"We need to get 8 people fast! We're losing, and need people here now so we can start it!"

THen while they're waiting for one person to show up...BOOM...side switch...NOOOO!

I love it! I support this!

/SIGNED!

I'm just curious which one of you guys will be ponying up the money that NCSoft will lose from the subs cancelled by pissed off PvE players when they find themselves being forced into PvP. As much as you guys may not like it it's the PvE players that are paying the bills around here not PvP.

I'm also a "no" on the OP's idea.

For over 99% of the playerbase, development time spent on PvP has less than zero value. I say "less than zero" because that development time could have been spent on activities that the PvE portion of this community might enjoy, instead of creating another virtually empty zone, as the OP suggests.

As an alternative to the OP's suggestion, which could easily lead to confusion and irritation for PvE players who have no desire to participate in PvP, I have two suggestions:

1. Put all "Fed Ex" missions to visit PvP contacts out as OPTIONAL missions, when they come up, instead of forcing them onto every single alt a player rolls, as they level up. Don't bother the 99% of the playerbase that has opted out of PvP with reminders about an activity that they have already, and very plainly, rejected.
2. Make all badges and temp awards awarded in PvP zones available through other means.

That would allow the 99+% of the playerbase who has no desire to participate in PvP to leave it entirely behind, with no losses whatsoever from refusing to participate.

Bribing people with badges and temp powers to enter PvP zones with their PvE characters, so that they would end up offering their PvE characters as "bait" for PvPers, was never a good idea. It probably solidified the dislike of PvP for *many* players, instead of motivating them to freely participate in it.