Rage favors resistance toons over def
The problem with rage is that it favors resistance-based toons over defense. Defense-based toons rely mainly on defense to get by. But while resistance-based toons do benefit from defense, they don't solely rely on it. This creates a scenario where rage's defense debuff largely affects defense-based toons while just being a thorn in the side for resistance.
My solution would be to give it a debuff that affects all armor sets. Something like a tohit debuff or the like. |
The correct solution is to make Rage apply a resistable resistance debuff. That would affect everyone proportionately the same.
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Because with a very low amount of +rech, you can overlap rage, negating the -def.
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This was the solution implemented a while back. The -def penalty is easy to get past with double stacking Rage. The real penalty is the -damage and endurance hit.
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Can the average player stack Rage sufficiently to avoid the crash with just SOs and without Hasten?
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4 even level SOs will get it a recharge equal to the duration of the buff.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but three lvl 30/35 IOs would be much more appropriate and would accomplish the same thing.
Regardless, since it has a rather long activation time, you're not actually looking for a recharge equal to the duration, but slightly shorter (meaning more recharge enh than enough to duplicate the duration).
On the plus side, there's really not much use to putting anything in it other than recharge so why not?
A small side note: unless one is adverse to IO Sets, it wouldn't take much -rech from sets to push this over the edge.
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3 +3 SOs leaves 1.7s of the -DEF while 4 even level SOs will get it a recharge equal to the duration of the buff.
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A small side note: unless one is adverse to IO Sets, it wouldn't take much -rech from sets to push this over the edge. |
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Four even level SOs of a single type are effectively no different than 3. The real difference is under a couple % which means that it would change the amount by under 1%. Spending the inf or even the time to do that, and wasting the slot on it, is ludicrous.
Correct me if I'm wrong but three lvl 30/35 IOs would be much more appropriate and would accomplish the same thing. |
How is the -Def negated by stacking? Mid's states that the buff is only for ToHit and Damage so you would still be vulnarable during the crash, wouldn't you?
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I believe this bug is there because the trivial solution - making the -DEF stack - would overpenalize Defense sets (even more than they are now). So rather than overpenalize defense sets, everyone gets to dodge the penalty.
I'm still honestly not sure why this isn't simply changed to either a resistable -RES debuff and made stackable, or (although the argument for why this makes sense is much more complex) a resistable Defense debuff and made it stackable. Either way it would be fair and impossible to exploit, and take all of a minute to change. Either there's some additional issue I'm unaware of, or the problem's been put back to the bottom of the TODO pile and the light from my previous posts hasn't reached it yet.
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Thanks for the explanation. I guess that means I made a lucky choice by a) making rage overlapping and b) investing in a Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance to keep it that way
Somewhat tangential, I've been told that zoning can cause you to still experience the defense crash even with stacked rage. Any truth to this?
I'm still honestly not sure why this isn't simply changed to either a resistable -RES debuff and made stackable, or (although the argument for why this makes sense is much more complex) a resistable Defense debuff and made it stackable. Either way it would be fair and impossible to exploit, and take all of a minute to change. Either there's some additional issue I'm unaware of, or the problem's been put back to the bottom of the TODO pile and the light from my previous posts hasn't reached it yet.
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For the suggested resistable defense debuff, will rage affect more for energy aura brutes compared to super reflexes?
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Before anyone thinks to make it seem like I'm suggesting that EA and SR are even close to the same level of effectiveness, I don't believe so. I'm just saying that it makes sense that EA should get hurt by def debuffs more than SR because SR has more of a focus on defense than EA.
For the suggested resistable defense debuff, will rage affect more for energy aura brutes compared to super reflexes?
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(Its a bit more complicated than that, but that's the simplified version)
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Technically, as you said, defense debuff resistance is a measure of how easily something (including mobs and rage) can affect defense. I think it's probably intended as a measure of how easily mobs can affect defense. Super reflexes have high resistance because the power set only has defense. Other power sets usually have lower resistance because they have other layers of mitigation. Let's say if rage is changed to have a resistable defense debuff, I'm not sure energy aura can then ask for a higher defense debuff resistance just because of rage.
I'm still honestly not sure why this isn't simply changed to either a resistable -RES debuff and made stackable, or (although the argument for why this makes sense is much more complex) a resistable Defense debuff and made it stackable. Either way it would be fair and impossible to exploit, and take all of a minute to change. Either there's some additional issue I'm unaware of, or the problem's been put back to the bottom of the TODO pile and the light from my previous posts hasn't reached it yet.
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Of course, I have no idea where the post is or even if it still exists, and my memory is not perfect. But according to my memory, Castle said they didn't want to add -Res to Rage's crash because, while it would indeed make resistance sets approximately equal to the state of defense sets without the -Res, it would also further hurt defense sets, since the defense isn't perfect. In effect, making Rage a combo of -Def and -Res would bring the resistance sets down to where the Defense sets were, but it would also bring the defense sets down further. I don't remember whether he commented on sets that rely on a mix of the two.
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Let's say if rage is changed to have a resistable defense debuff, I'm not sure energy aura can then ask for a higher defense debuff resistance just because of rage.
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Shield (ignoring double stack Active Defense or HO slotting), which actually has less defense than EA with 59.1% DDR.
Invuln, which has less defense than EA even with saturated Invinc and more diverse survivability mechanisms, has 50% DDR.
SR, with it's almost sole focus on defense, has capped (95%) DDR.
EA, which is primarily defense based with a tad bit of resistance and an ignorable to moderate heal based on the number of nearby enemies, has only 51.9% DDR. Considering it's a set that relies extremely heavily on defense in order to survive, one could easily make the argument that EA is in need of some more DDR (among other things).
Four even level SOs of a single type are effectively no different than 3. The real difference is under a couple % which means that it would change the amount by under 1%. Spending the inf or even the time to do that, and wasting the slot on it, is ludicrous.
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"Yes, you CAN perma-rage with SOs, but the solution is somewhat ugly and wasteful."
Correct me if I'm wrong but three lvl 30/35 IOs would be much more appropriate and would accomplish the same thing. |
How is the -Def negated by stacking? Mid's states that the buff is only for ToHit and Damage so you would still be vulnarable during the crash, wouldn't you?
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I'd hesitate to refer to having your damage crash for a few seconds as "vulnerable". You simply aren't doing any damage with your primary powers. There are other powers though, like Sands of Mu, that still do full normal damage during the period.
The End crash can be potentially problematic for toons with End management problems too.
Considering it's primarily a defense based set (with a couple tricks thrown in to diversify it a bit), EA is pretty low on the DDR scale.
Shield (ignoring double stack Active Defense or HO slotting), which actually has less defense than EA with 59.1% DDR. Invuln, which has less defense than EA even with saturated Invinc and more diverse survivability mechanisms, has 50% DDR. SR, with it's almost sole focus on defense, has capped (95%) DDR. EA, which is primarily defense based with a tad bit of resistance and an ignorable to moderate heal based on the number of nearby enemies, has only 51.9% DDR. Considering it's a set that relies extremely heavily on defense in order to survive, one could easily make the argument that EA is in need of some more DDR (among other things). |
Although my own target for the heal was 4%-4.5% per target, 3% per target is not insignificant. At about three targets hit per use its 36% of the strength of reconstruction. In relative survival terms, given that EA blocks about half of all incoming damage (more or less) its actually closer to three quarters of the total survival benefit that reconstruction provides to Regeneration.
(In fact, my 4% recommendation came from the fact that it would make it comparable to reconstruction with three targets hit combined with the fact that it would also make the set a better mitigation match for SR and Invuln-at-the-time on average damage mitigation numbers. That seemed to be a happy convergence of numbers.)
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Hm.
I find a lot of things work 'better' in combination with one powerset / pool / power / IO set than another.
I dont think that everything can or has to be balanced on that level of detail.
The problem with rage is that it favors resistance-based toons over defense. Defense-based toons rely mainly on defense to get by. But while resistance-based toons do benefit from defense, they don't solely rely on it. This creates a scenario where rage's defense debuff largely affects defense-based toons while just being a thorn in the side for resistance.
My solution would be to give it a debuff that affects all armor sets. Something like a tohit debuff or the like.