Circle of Thorns specific character

This question is CoH specific. I don't do CoV. So if the answer to this question is a Dominator or Mastermind or Brute or Stalker, sorry but that doesn't help me.

From years ago to even still today (happened to me just yesterday) a pick up group of heroes goes into a new mish and either gets laid to waste after the first corner or at the first sight of them the vets will turn tail and just head for the exit door saying thanks but no thanks. I'm talking of course, of the Circle of Thorns.

Let's say you wanted to create a character that could specifically survive Circle of Thorns' mezzes and all the other things that make people generally avoid CoT mishes if they can at all help it. What would be the most ideal archetype, power set, and overall character design to withstand the Circle of Thorns and then late in the game the Carnival of Shadows? Would this same character design also withstand the other villain types just as well? What if you wanted to make a troller or fender that could help an entire team take on Circle of Thorns without batting an eye? I imagine there may be more than one answer to this question. I'd like to hear multiple schools of thought on the idea.

CoX is Cox. I've never had trouble with any character vs. the CoT, not even a Defender. By and large, they seem to be annoyances, and not much more. I think you've just had a permanently bad rash of PuGs.

Anyways, if you want a blue-sided character that is resistant to mezzes and dishes good damage...Scrapper?

Most people will tell you a tank, most of which get mezz resistance fairly early. However, I have never had any issues with either of those groups or just about any groups with my mind/ controller. It's very simple, mezz them before they mezz you. If you get the first shot in, there's almost no normal enemy mobs that can do a thing. Mind's AoE sleep to open allows you to take any group down at your leisure (if you're solo, or at least 'til the blaster uses his AoEs if not). Ice shields and force fields from defenders are great defense and if the mezzes miss you they can't hurt you. Generally speaking most good controllers and defenders should have no problem with these groups.

Personally I think the threat represtented by the CoT is overstated a lot of the time. Yes, they have debuffs and controls which can make them annoying to fight, but a majority of the time people avoid them not because they're incredibly difficult but rather because (due to the aforementioned debuffs, controls, etc) they aren't good grind material for farming. If you're trying to level as fast as possible, be that through farming, PLing, grinding scanner misisons, whatever... if that's your objective, you're going to avoid CoT. Also Malta, Knives, Carnies, anything that isn't straightforward to knock down and collect the bounty for. I'd wager that mindset is more at fault for the "vets turning tail and running" than any real fear of being able to take down the CoT. They just don't want to spend the extra time.

All that said, I'll try to answer the question you asked. Energy damage tends to work very nicely against CoT spectrals (conversely, negative energy damage is resisted). I found that my PB and my Energy Blaster both cleaned up against CoT quite nicely. The main trick to the Circle is really the trick with any enemy group - don't aggro too many at once and play tactically. The CoT just happen to punish you a bit more than most if you fail to do that, especially early on in the game (I'm thinking here of massed Spectrals or of multiple boss-class Mages).

In terms of Defenders or Controllers, pretty much anything should work, though I'd avoid Dark Blast on a Defender because of the negative energy issue if this is a specifically anti-CoT character. Probably the single best Defender primary/Controller secondary for this would be Empathy, especially paired with the Leadership pool, since that should allow you to counter the tohit debuffs nicely with Fort+Tactics with Clear Mind to nullify the mezzes.

Another solid choice would be Kinetics with Increase Density to nullify the earthquakes thrown by Ruin Mages, though with the Kin you're going to lean more towards overwhelming force with Speed Boost and Siphon Power (and later, Fulcrum Shift) to take them down before they get their debuff/mez machine completely up and running.

These are just a couple of suggestions and really I can see any Controller or Defender being very useful indeed versus CoT (as I said, I really think you're giving them too much credit as a threat here). As for Carnies, you basically just want something to counter mezzes, ideally something that also protects or restores endurance and helps with Psy. So your top choices there are Empathy (for CM and for RA), Dark Miasma (psy damage resistance buff in Shadow Fall), Kinetics (ID, Speed Boost & Transference) or Storm Summoning (O2 Boost to protect against endurance drain). And again, these are just a couple of possible options - plenty of other things would also work well.

Excellent advice. One other quick point: a lot of people just really hate those CoT maps

For me (and most people I've played with), the problem with the CoT isn't the faction itself, but rather the annoying cave maps missions with them spawn on. The Orenbega (sp) and Cake Room Of Doom!™ maps are, by far, the worst.

The best sets for dealing with the CoT Mez powers are Super Reflexes, Regenration, and Willpower.

Super Reflexes can dodge/evade the attacks that cause a Mez, and those that get through then have to contend with Practiced Brawler (though that only counters Knock, Disorent, Hold, Sleep, and Immobilize, and not Fear). Throw in Elude, and not much will touch you.

In the case of Willpower, it's one part Super Reflexes, one part Invulnerability, and one part Regeneration. If it doesn't dodge/evade a Mez, then it'll will just resist it with Indomitable Will.

Regeneration can't dodge/evade the Mez attacks, but it can resist them with Integration.

All three powers essentially make you immune to Knock effects, though if enough of them are stacked on you, they'll overcome the powers. Indomitable Will and Integration also essentially make you immune to other Mez effects, but again, if enough of them are stacked on you, they'll be overcome, and you'll be affected.

All three Secondary Sets are also good for dealing with the End Drain attack from Carnies. Super Reflexes and Willpower can dodge/evade it, and Willpower and Regeneration can have a high Recovery, so that the End Drain essentially becomes negligent. Especially if you take Quick Recovery, Stamina, and Physical Perfection. My Level 50 MA/Regen Scrapper has all three, with QR and Stam 3 slotted with Level 50 Common End Mod IOs, and Physical Perfection 6 slotted with 3 Level 50 Common End Mod IOs and 3 Level 50 Common Heal IOs. With Super Speed, Integration, Combat Jumping, Sprint, and Focused Accuracy all running, my End doesn't move much while I'm in combat.

All three Secondary Sets are pretty darned good at dealing with anything the game can throw at you. Super Reflexes can dodge/evade like nobody's business (though the game's Streakbreaker code will ensure that an attack will eventually hit you), and Regeneration can ignore the Mez attacks, and Regenerate and Recover everything else back. Willpower can dodge/evade, though not as well as Super Reflexes, and it can Regenerate... I'd say maybe just under Regeneration, though not by much, and it can Recover just as well as Regeneration.

I'm sure others will point out the sets I've left out, but that's OK. Those three sets are the ones I've had the most experiance with.

Any Controller should be able to face either faction with no problems. As long as you use your Holds and Immobilizes to lock down the foes with Mez attacks, you'll be good to go.

Defenders can help buff up the Defense and Resistance to the Mez effects, and in the case of Empathy (which Controllers also have access to), they can remove them with Clear Mind.

If you want to run in there and devestate the CoT or Carnies, I'd suggest either making a Scrapper with one of the three secondary sets I mentioned. If you want to hang back and support, I'd make a Defender, or a Controller. Of course, a Fire Control/Kinetics Controller can do a little of both.

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Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:

Any high-defense Scrapper. If you're not hit, you're not hurt, you're not mezzed, and you're not debuffed.

It doesn't hurt to slot IO bonuses for Accuracy and to have a flight power (even the Shard fly pack) to fly over slow patches or to catch up with flying mages. Teleport is also a great remedy for Knockdown, Slow, or Caltrop patches.

Scrapper defenses will take time to mature, and CoT are a 10-50 enemy group. You'll be dealing with being mezzed, debuffed and hit hard a lot.

That said, I can't really think of anything ideal myself. Maybe an Ill/Rad or Ill/any debuff set controller? Invincible pets + confuse + stealth gets you past a lot of nasty stuff.

I would personally suggest a */Sonic or */FF controller. From 1-20 you can pre-emptively mez the lieutenant in the group, then at 20+ you can take Sonic Dispersion/Dispersion Bubble, which gives mez protection against everything but sleep. For good damage primaries I suggest Illusion, Grav, or Fire.

I had some pretty hideous early experiences on a BS/Inv scrapper when the game was new. Spectrals are resistant to lethal, really really hard to hit and go right through your "defenses" in the low levels. Bosses mez a lot.

These days, any team I'm on rips up the CoT pretty well, but I can't think of a specific "Oh, that" reason.

My two "Remember me? I'm back and this time it's not going to be quite the same..." characters were a Force Field defender [possibly FF/Rad for increased To Hit] and a */Dark scrapper [mine was Spine/Dark but I knew I had a kinetic with me at ALL times.] Dark Armor laughs at a tremendous number of things that work really well on most people- End Drain, Psi Damage, and Fear for three. It may break your heart and leave you with a cold, dark endurance bar, but I love it anyway.

I'd heartily recommend a mind controller - with a plethora of quickly recharging single-target mezzes, you can quickly and easily pick off the troublesome types before they cause too much trouble. Heck, with Confuse, you can subvert the lieutenants before the fight even begins - how do you like them PBAoE accuracy debuffs now? Even the oft-maligned Mesmerize has an accuracy boost and enough magnitude to one-shot a boss, effectively shutting down any toggles they might have active.
The downside is that you're trading off damage output for all the control, but a scrapper or three will easily fix that problem.

An open letter to NCsoft

Awesome suggestions and a great thread read. Thanks everybody! =)

Agreed that this is mostly a PUG issue, where some prefer to focus more on leveling and less on playing the game. Destination versus journey. Some have to actually get a few fifties under their belt before they realize the game is more fun in the 20s & 30s then it is after your toon hits the ceiling cap. I remember when my Willpower scrapper hit 50 I was disappointed because it pretty much meant I wasn't gonna be playing him anymore. And when my electric blaster hit fifty on one server, I just rebuilt him on another server and that one's in the late teens currently. Destination versus journey.

Based on some of the above suggestions, I guess in hindsight my magic ill/ff controller was after all a good bet against the CoT. I was hoping there would be something more ideally suited to build a character with a "CoT vengeance" backstory to it. but you're right. Most anything could work if strategy over mindless pounding is put into play.

Now, if you're just in the mood for mindless pounding..... A shield defense/super strength tanker works well on most things. (Well, not Cimmeroans...) You get your positional defenses right away, and end-game, you have 2 AOEs to take out your frustrations on the CoT with. Plus, you have the HPs and defenses (both in Defense and Resistance) to handle most anything they throw at you.

... throwing more scrappers at the Envoy of Shadows, or at Nosferatu, is not a known recipe for success. Just sayin'.

Most of my blueside alts take CoT missions preferentially, especially in the lower levels, since their salvage drops still tend to sell for more. Then again my lowbies have gotten good at kiting the Spectrals and i usually take the Ghost Slaying Axe as one of my vet attacks. Even my melees kite the Daemon Lords at the lower levels when they've Chill of the Night running. i back off, use staff/wand attack(s), then jump in to try and hit with the Axe before being affected by the debuff, repeat.

Most of the other enemy groups just aren't as interesting in the early levels anyway, and getting the layer cake cave just means more sacks of hit points to collect xp from.