Seems like everyone has an opinion about PeeVeePee

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Seems like as soon as PvP is peripherally mentioned the whole discussion gets sucked down a whirlpool of teenage angst and melodrama. Of course, none of those posts are in the PvP subforum proper.

Is this what everyone else feels like about PvP on Justice? Seems like all the people who wanted to enjoy PvP here went to the server starting with 'F'.

Zomg you said PvP, I'm telling

I only read a little from your links, but I bet I can guess what those threads turned into.

I am not sure why bother asking what "everyone" thinks about pvp, because that is how these conversations always break down. Who cares what the people who don't like pvp think about it? There are still some people on Justice who like it, and it is still going on...some.

Some people like it, some people don't.
I enjoy cooperative play more, but that is just me.

I just don't like it when people treat the boards or other areas of the game as a pvp zone.

Here as elsewhere, people have a lot of opinions about subjects they know very little, myself included.

Anyway, look for the silver lining. Even if there are outrageous threads going on about PvP, they might help drum up some interest.

Personal anecdote: I got interested in trying a Kheldian again after reading a flame-fest on the Kheld boards. I haven't rolled one up yet, but I'm prepared to put some effort into building one this time. Sort of an "Oh come on, it can't be THAT bad" response that got me curious.

What is pvp?

Honestly, I don't do too much PvP and my experiences and interest are somewhat limited. I have recently found PvP much more palatable than I had in the past. I cannot stand teenage trashtalk nonsense. All that gloating and name-calling got very annoying.

My first trip through Warburg, when it was new, ended when I got jumped by two heroes who were just picking off curious lookyloos, like me. I was on my main, Nakoa, and I managed to take out the scrapper, but the defender finished me off. But instead of moving on, he decided to stand over me and shout insults with emotes (I had yet to type a single word). The insults got louder when I hit Rise of the Phoenix and knocked him down and finished him with one Seismic Smash. He called me a cheater and all sorts of nastiness. I left Warburg and told myself I'd never go back to there, or any PvP zone, for that matter.

Recently, I have spent some time in Recluse's Victory and have had great fun. I was mainly there to get badges, but once I got into the PvPing, I found it pretty fun. The people there were cool and helpful, and I killed about twice as much as I died. One of the things I really want to do is get a team together to finish of the AVs there, get some badges and beat up some signature villians. I think I'll take the initiative and set something up.

I have followed these threads with a mix of amusement and confusion. I don't really understand all of the subtleties of the complaints, but I can tell some people are very passionate about PvP. Good for them. I hope it all works out for them.

I transfered most of my PVP characters to Freedom. I left 2 here for the arena events. PVP is very lively on Freedom BUT the trash talking is even worse in the zones.

I mainly stick to the arena matches due to Travel Suppression being off and Heal Decay off. As annoying as trash talking gets, I really don't pay attention to it because I ignore chat!

One of my favorite threads back in the day was ongoing war between two PvP VGs Misfit Villains and Corruption about spies and base raids. One thing in particular about it was one of the guys from Misfits came here bragging about how badass he was and knew karate. Those two VGs got so much bad rep. in PvP I don't think anyone liked them. I refused to do base raids with them.

My 2 cents from a 6 year vet:

I think the above mentioned "PVP SGs" did a lot to diminish the desire for a lot of people to do PVP. You can say "Well, this helped weed out the casual PVPers and whatnot to give the avid PVPers more of a challenge." No one likes to be degraded or put down regardless of what they do, do you? Most people come play COH to relax and have a good time away from the daily grind, not to get on and have someone insult them. If you want to be insulted over your playstyle or your enhancing or whatever, please go play WOW, there are tons of experts over there that will tell you why they think you suck. I think the player base for COH is much more mature. What if I went a played you in a round of golf, and every time you missed a putt or shanked a drive, I tear into you with "You SUCK!!! I OWNED YOU!!!!" I seriously doubt you would stick around for the back nine if I started that kind of behavior. I know I wouldn't. Would you give a ride to someone that constantly berrates your driving, or would you give him a dollar for the bus and be done with him? That kind of behavior really has nothing to do with PVP as much as human nature. A lot of people have said in the past, "Too bad, that is part of PVP, if you don't like it, then don't PVP." Guess what...

Another issue with PVP is that there is zone and Arena PVP. For a while I really enjoyed the zone PVP when it came out. But after a short while, many times you go into zone PVP, you can get any balance. Go in now and there will be 5 villains and one hero as an example. Well obviously that hero is going to get hammered just by sheer numbers, so why stick around if they don't even have a chance. Regardless if all 5 are teamed and working together or they are all individually doing missions, there is no way for the hero to tell that, so he exits the zone and does something else. In Arena, you can somewhat balance it, but the Arena maps are much smaller and are pretty much a kill count. The zones all have different aspects to them and are huge in comparison to the Arena ones and have NPCs in there for a bit of flavor. So that was PVP v PVP v PVE loooong before Aion coined that term. If there was some kind of queue or way to balance at least the numbers of players on each team in the zone, I think more people would play it.

I think another big problem for PVP is the scoring of it. As far as I know, the player that gets that last hitpoint gets the kill regardless of what anyone else has done. This may have changed in the last year or so as I have not done PVP in that time. In Sirens, you may get part of the bounty IF you are on that team, but if not, you may get nothing at all for your work. Example: A brute takes a scrapper down to 100 hitpoints, and a stalker from another team or not on a team lays the AS on the scrap and he drops, does the brute get anything for that, or was him pulling off the 1800 hitpoints just a setup for the stalker? What about a healer? I went into Siren's one time with my friend on his main which was a Grav/Emp controller. He had no pet, a few holds and a lot of buffs. So he did some buffing and tried a few holds, but after an hour, he had earned next to nothing. He could have completed half a TF in an hour, yet with that build in Siren's, he came out with next to nothing, I think he got a free SO from someone, but other than that, he felt he has wasted his time. Take what you will from this, "That's a bad PVP build." "He should have done this or that..." He should be able to enjoy it without having to adjust too much for it or he won't do it. I think they should give honor points for the amount of healing, holding, debuffing, buffing, etc that you do anytime in PVP, just not get the kill.

Have you ever tried to do something that you just felt you were no good at? Did you just get into your car and start driving? Did you mom ever show you how to cook a specific recipe? A lot of people don't PVP because they feel they don't know how. If they had someone to show them how or mentor them, than I think quite a lot of this would change. However, when I have mentioned this before, a LOT of the hardcore have some back with "No one showed me how to..." or "Why would I show someone how to kill me." etc. I think this is where some of the PVP community splinters. Some would rather spend 20 minutes killing you over and over again. 20 kills to nothing. He owned you and made you his b#$@. Who out there would like to be his b#$@!? I know I wouldn't. But some PVPers want this for whatever reason. Then there are others who would rather have a match 20 - 16 for example. He did beat you, but you gave him a run for his money and he had to play at his utmost best to defeat you. At this time, on this day, he was better than you, but just barely. If you would like the latter, it may be in your best interest to mentor and help those who don't PVP to encourage them to do more. Up to you guys on whether this is what you want or not, but this is more attractive to the non-pvper than never having a chance at all.

I haven't heard of anyone doing base raids for a long time, I thought they were still broken. However, I know quite a few SGs that woould never put their base up in a raid considering how much time and effort they have put into it. They have spent hours upon hours, upon hours designing and making their base a good home for their SG. I doubt any of them are going to go ahead and open the dor for a group to come in and undo in 20 minutes what it took them days to create. Since they have the base editor sytem in place, and now Mission Architect system in place, why not a Base Raid Architect in place. Everyone can add their base creations to a kiosk and teams can go on the offense and defense in them and then rate them?

So all in all, I don't think the PVPer is a bad person or good person, he just likes frisbee golf and I like the traditional golf. If you want me to play more frisbee golf, just make sure it is fun for both me and you and I'll play it more. If not, don't be upset if I turn you down. But I think the design of PVP itself needs work, not necessarily tweaking powers, but making it accessible and fun for even the most casual player without a serious PVP build. He may not "Own" anyone, but he should feel like he participated and got something out of it. Anytime you do anything in an MMO you shoould get something out of it being, cash, points, badges, PVP, merits, etc. The risk vs. reward is not there for a lot of people, you go in and risk getting worked for 20 minutes and your rewards is... what?

Anohter thread, while not related to PvP, but is full of drama: What is the point of knockback?

Our enemies must not deceive themselves – in the 2,000 years of Justice history known to us, our people have never been more united than today. The Lord of the Universe has treated us so well in the past years that we bow in gratitude to a providence which has allowed us to be members of such a great nation. We thank Him that we also can be entered with honour into the everlasting book of Justice history!

Well now that free server transfers have been announced, what will Justice PvP look like now? Better, worse, no change?

I can pretty much guarantee the Justice PVP population is going to take a big hit. I've moved a couple of toons to Freedom and then back again in the past. Mainly because I had left my resource toons (my farmers and PLers) on Justice so it was always a pain to level new toons on Freedom. Now that I can move all of my characters free of charge I'll most likely move everything to Freedom (leaving some PVE toons on Justice.)

The free server transfers are going to be great for increasing Freedom's PVP population (notice I said population not necessarily the PVP quality itself) but it's going to hurt all the other servers imo.

What? Server Xfers are free now?