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Originally Posted by Force_Encephalon
mothership raids are uncommon on most servers. Plus, many players play at odd times.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
The costs are balanced around the designed primary method and reflect as such. They're perfectly fine where they are. It's not the devs' fault that you're either incapable or unwilling to start or join an RWZ raid.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
"May you play at odd times."
- Ancient Paragonian curse |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I think the price of the COSTUME parts should come down a little, OR that the merits for random defeats and missions should increase. I mean, doing the arcs, you have: Routed out traitors, save Paragon City and teh Rogue isles, exposed Nemesis's role in the original war, helped sign a peace treaty, and saved the world... hell, you saved the multiverse! And yet, you CAN'T BUY A PAIR OF BOOTS.
That's pretty stupid. I understand that the devs were enforcing a pro-raid viewpoint, but having that be the ONLY way to get enough merits to get ANYTHING is a bit heavy-handed, and they may as well remove merit rewards from everything else. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I can see both perspectives...
I can not speak for other servers, but the Champions server has a weekly scheduled mothership raid on Saturday mornings, and sometimes it also occurs Thursday nights. When I used to play Virtue, this form of organization did not exist at all. So perhaps some servers are better at doing Rikti raids than others.
Organizing a Raid out of the blue, unless you are very well liked by the comuunity is not likely to happen, the amount of organization and good will to pull it off, is normally not there to be just "picked up" like a normal Pick Up Group (PUG). While I am saying it is very unlikley, I am not saying it is impossible to just form a raid at the spur of the moment.
When I was a newb, with regard to the RWZ, I wanted the Vanguard Belt so bad, and I remember street hunting and mission doing for hour after hour with incredibly little to show for Vanguard Merits; frankly my rare recipe drop rate far outperformed my vanguard merit earning. Thus leading to me believe the vanguard merit drop rate to need some reasonable amount of adjusting.
At this time, this is not a problem, for I play in an excellent server, Champions, and waiting for the Saturday RWZ is not a problem. Sometimes the folks at Champions have two back-to-back raids, allowing me to earn as much as 700 merits in a conservative day. I shudder to think, what it would be like for folks who has to work Saturday mornings, for they would be so screwed.
If I was queen for a day, I would say Rikti bosses and better drop a merit 100% of the time, not a roll thingy but a standard drop. I hate struggling against Rikti bosses to get nothing for my effort.
Anyway what is the vanguard merit percentages for minions, lts, etc?
Hugs
Stormy
I do think the VG merit drops are borked. 1 for Minion, 2 for LT, 3 for Boss, sure that's fine. But it's so RARE. We're not talking purple recipes here, as has been said. It's a costume part.
As for the sense of achievment thing...I got about half the armour on my VG colonel without doing ship raids. Pure, abhorent grinding. Would I lose that 'sense of achievement' having got it the hard way?
No. I would be damn happy that a costume set I really like is more readily available for use on characters I want it on.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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On Infinity, just Saturday night, the badge 2.0 channel ran 3 raids back to back for badges, alts or whatever... I wound up getting 1200+ VG merits on top of what I had already. Then the AE Anonymous channel also ran it's regularly scheduled raid on Sunday evening. That regularly scheduled raid has always been a blast. The channel hosts spend some time promoting and running the events.
It was an absolute blast... Lots of players, new connections since a lot of my old ones have taken breaks or moved on from CoH... Plus, I had merits for the costume pieces, bombs to contribute the raids, and my first VG Heavy. I got BOATLOADS of merits on the first run. I didn't have to do the other runs to get the costume pieces I wanted, that was all just extra gravy.
Protector and Liberty also have sponsored raid nights. I think on Protector it's Rush the Rikti on Wednesdays... Scope out a channel or two, add them to a tab or two and you'll find those raids...
The Drop rate is 10% from mobs.
When collecting Drop rate data for another project (pinning down purple and costume recipes) one of the mission types I have been running is Borea repeatables.
The drop rate for merits I have been seeing is not inconsistent with that published rate (its pretty durn close in fact).
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Originally Posted by Umbral
The costs are balanced around the designed primary method and reflect as such. They're perfectly fine where they are. It's not the devs' fault that you're either incapable or unwilling to start or join an RWZ raid.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Make the uniform cost about 1 raid's worth of merits, then. That's still 300-400 for the whole thing. And have it crafted as a package. "Vanguard Uniform".
Then make the weapons cost another 150-200 each. Still provides incentive to raid, but now it's actually feasible to get the uniform without raiding if you can only play at 1 AM Tuesdays (and your home server is Protector or Champion). |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'd like to weigh in on this topic.
I have a 35 Claws Brute that is itching to obtain the Vanguard costume (the blades moreso than any other piece). So I have parked him in RWZ for the dayjob at a greater chance for V Merit drops. It's an ok method but still tedious.
I have seen the announced for Mothership Raids on Freedom but taking a level 35 Brute against 54 Rikti is not fun at all. I'm next to useless against their resistances and would be a determent to my team. I dislike being dead weight and refuse to commit to a raid until at least level 45. I'm aware this is my own choice but I believe its the best move to avoid handicapping my teammates during the onslaught.
My point? Ten levels is sooooooooooooooooooo far away. I'll probably earn at least one costume piece by doing the entire RWZ storyline and some repeatables but it's still very tedious.
My suggestion is to add, at least, a 10 merit bonus for arc completion when completing any RWZ arc for the first time.
The Vanguard costume pieces are too high IMO. Considering you can get the Roman costume (headpieces, chests, gloves, bottoms, boots) from completing 1 ITF, it does seem silly that a Vanguard hat costs as much as a Heavy.
Logging out in the RWZ Vanguard base does help (with the dayjob), but very little. You really need to do a couple of Mothership raids in order to get the complete set. That in itself seems a little much in comparison to other costume sets unlocked in the game.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
However, unless you can make an argument as to why Vanguard costume items are BETTER than, say, Enforcer items (and they're actually not) or even capes, then you really have no ground to claim that their being much harder to obtain is justified, even if it IS the status quo.
<SNIP> Until then, the Vanguard pieces are just not worth the bother. |
The fuss is because one of the main draws of this game is the costume creator, and that draw is undermined by making the Vanguard set so difficult to obtain. Normally, that much effort (either in raids or grinding), would earn you a nice boost to your performance through increased accuracy, higher damage, etc. That would be considered "worth it". Instead, the developers have mixed up their markets--they've given a costume set (something casual gamers/RP'ers enjoy) as a reward for raids and grinding (something min/maxers, raiders, etc do expecting performance increases).
I don't think Samuel_Tow is suggesting he wants the Vanguard costumes to be "better"--one of the draws of this game is that costumes have no performance boosts. Unlike other games, costume pieces don't have inherent value other than looking cool. And the less effort it requires to look cool, the more casual gamers will enjoy this game. Making people jump through extraordinary hoops just for a COSTUME makes no sense. Either lower the requirements for the costume...or give us the costume for free and change the rewards to something more substantial. And if you do the latter--for God's sake, give everyone who worked hard and earned the costume the performance boost when they log on.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
"Sucks to be you" arguments are hardly convincing. The simple fact is that sticking costume items behind TFs and raids is a plain bad idea, out and out locking certain people out of them entirely. "You must be this tall to ride" restrictions simply never work unless they eventually sort themselves out, and this one just doesn't.
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| What the developers "intended" (of which we have only guesses, so let's try not to present them as absolute truth) is relevant, but only partially. What's good and what works are just as important, and history has shown that what the developers intend and what's good for the game aren't always the same thing. I can point to a plethora of decisions made by the developers, working as intended, and then either rolled back, altered or tweaked, some of which managed to survive for five years before being rolled back. |
| Status quo is only really relevant when discussing how to deal with problems NOW. Considering many people have expressed displeasure at the current situation and that this is a suggestions forum, I would say what's abstractly good for the game, rather than what is right now, should be the main subject of conversation. We know what it is, and we don't like it. Let's see if we can't suggest a way for it to improve. |
| NI get Enforcer for free, and I can get a cape for a token effort at level 20. Why must I do 4-5 raids to get a suit of armour that is, at best, mediocre? |
| I don't agree with unlocking costumes in general, but I can live with it where and when it makes sense. But an effort this concentrated is just not worth the reward it yields. Either the effort needs to go down, or the reward needs to become account-wise. Until then, the Vanguard pieces are just not worth the bother. |
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Originally Posted by Solicio
The fuss is because one of the main draws of this game is the costume creator, and that draw is undermined by making the Vanguard set so difficult to obtain.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
Normally, that much effort (either in raids or grinding), would earn you a nice boost to your performance through increased accuracy, higher damage, etc. That would be considered "worth it". Instead, the developers have mixed up their markets--they've given a costume set (something casual gamers/RP'ers enjoy) as a reward for raids and grinding (something min/maxers, raiders, etc do expecting performance increases).
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Originally Posted by Solicio
I don't think Samuel_Tow is suggesting he wants the Vanguard costumes to be "better"...
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Originally Posted by Solicio
Making people jump through extraordinary hoops just for a COSTUME makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by all_hell
Having a hard acquire set diminishes or undermines the rest of the easier to acquire sets?
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I don't think he was saying that either. However, if the costume set is no better than some other one, substitute the one that's more easily attainable and be done with it. Yet, people don't seem to be satisfied with that for some reason(s). |
| To me anyway, easier to get means less valuable. Obviously, other people see things differently. |
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A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. Napoleon Bonaparte |
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Originally Posted by Solicio
I just got back from Afghanistan, and I can tell you, no one--NO ONE--risks their lives for a GODD***ED RIBBON. You do it because you love your country, you do it because you love your family, and you do it because you care about the people standing next to you. Anyone who risks their lives for a "bit of colored ribbon" belongs in a madhouse.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Depends on the time and war. In Napoleon's days, many soldiers risked their lives specifically because it was glorious and let you tell great stories later (not to mention the sexy scars). In the middle ages, knights would do pretty much the same thing. Of course, all of that changed pretty much after the Napoleonic era when militaries realized how easy it was to kill people on the other side indiscriminately from very far away in a decidedly inglorious manner.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
Having a hard to aquire set defeats the purpose of advertising that your game has one of the best character creation tools ever, and that it is built with the casual gamer in mind.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
Because you shouldn't have to grind your way through repetetive content for a costume. Period.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
Having an inclusive and comprehensive costume creater RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX is what I consider "valuable". Making people jump through hoops to get a costume doesn't make that costume "valuable"--it just proves that you've run out of ideas, and you've started to alienate new players/people with altitis/people with lower-end computers, etc. There is no need for that.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
I just got back from Afghanistan, and I can tell you, no one--NO ONE--risks their lives for a GODD***ED RIBBON. You do it because you love your country, you do it because you love your family, and you do it because you care about the people standing next to you. Anyone who risks their lives for a "bit of colored ribbon" belongs in a madhouse.
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Originally Posted by all_hell
So, to you, one hard set ruins the benefit of all of the others.
My mileage varies. I am fine with many easier ones and a few hard ones. |
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There should be some rewards that are harder to achieve than others. Period. I trust my assertion was as persuasive as yours. |
| Bear in mind that we're still just talking about pretendy fun time stuff and it's not about risking actual lives. It's just about playing a game to get a pretend outfit for a made up character. |
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Originally Posted by Solicio
No, to me, no sets should be hard. That's the whole point of having a game with excellent customization and not tying costumes to performance values--looking cool shouldn't be "hard". It should be easy, and that is supposed to be one of the things that seperates us from other games. We don't have to slave for hours in order to get the Cloak of Uber Goodness. Having all the costume options available up front is fair, and is attractive to new players. Pretending that the concept of "prestige costumes" has value is pretentious and serves no purpose.
I suppose it would be, if you didn't use the ridiculous strawman arguement that I don't believe ANY rewards should be hard to achieve. Read more closely--I think acccolades that improve performance makes perfect sense--playing should improve your performance anyway. "My real-life quote made me look foolish, so I'll pretend I didn't make it." You used a real-life example because art often imitates life. Don't call "time out" because your reasoning doesn't hold water. Fighting a war just to get a costume is stupid in real life, and it's even more stupid in a game. |
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Originally Posted by all_hell
You are just so right.
Anything else you want to tell me before I go? |
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Originally Posted by Solicio
I find that patently ridiculous, and I'd be willing to bet that most of the accounts of those days were made by people far away from the actual fighting. You can't "tell great stories" if you're dead. And besides, we're fighting the Rikti because they're invading our home and trying to kill all of us. We aren't looking for "sexy scars". Just the idea of that trivializes the sacrifices of war.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Actually, most of those accounts are letters from those that joined and are in the middle of combat. Of course, this was also considered to be much more civilized warfare in which everyone was supposed to be fighting by the same set of rules wherein officers and enlisted were treated quite well and given a fare deal of respect, even by the other side. Like I said, it was a strange age.
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