-Regen

Therm has better -regen capabilities than Cold and Dark, and I really wouldn't count any EMP type powers (TA, Elec Mastery) since they're on a long timer and only last 15 secs

-resistance is far more important than -regen.

I very much disagree.

My Blaster has no -res at all and she can drop almost every AV and GM ingame with no temps and only conservative small inspiration use

I forgot about therm having it. (Never played it, and tend to forget the abilities of powersets I don't play. That's how I forgot TA, too.) I did mention that the powersets I listed didn't all have good duration/recharge ratios. Cold falls between Rad and Dark (closer to Dark but still better) while Therm's has the same recharge as Cold but better duration.

Your blaster also has no -regen, so it really doesn't have anything to do with the topic, either

/Sonic can hit 100% -Res without breaking a sweat. TA/Sonic can hit 120-140% with an Achilles' Heel proc in Acid and double-stacked Disruption. TA/Rad can hit 110-130% with an Achilles' Heel proc in RI.

Tack on a Chem nuke's 50% -Res and you've tripled your damage output after taking any +Damage (including enhancements) into account.

Dwarf that.

Uh, did you really just suggest bringing a Chem nuke into the discussion? Seriously? Let's set that aside a moment.

Let me know when you get a TA/Rad whose base single-target DPS works out so that their non-nuked +130% damage works out to better than +277 HP/sec. Because that's what you need to match applying a -80% regen debuff to a Giant Monster. Where's 80% come from? A level 50 GM resists 84% of same-level regen debuffs. 500% (conservative value for the larger debuffs - some are 1000%) works out to 500%*(1-0.84) = 80%. And that's only enough damage to cancel their regen. You still have to have extra DPS to actually whittle down their base HP.

Do the same thing to lower-level GMs and the effect is more pronounced, because their resistance to debuffs is lower.

Now consider that Traps and Rad can stack their -Regen, hitting -100%. Therm could theoretically, but it would take a boatload of global recharge.
Edit: Nevermind Traps there, since its debuff a 1000% base, so it's -100% out of the box, unstacked.

The top-end Scrapper DPS builds cap out around 300 DPS, and that's with 1.73x as much base damage than a Defender, plus we're talking DM/Shield with saturated damage buffs (+231.25% above slotting). A Defender using everything you just described including the nuke would be hard pressed to match the same effective DPS. Assuming 100% damage slotting, triple damage from -DR and identical DamageScale/sec from their attack chains, a Defender would also need a 50% sustained damage buff just to match the Scrapper's DPS, and that's still not sufficient.

So going back to the Chem nuke, you've got someone who's stacking one with all their best tricks and still not pulling ahead, while someone with sustained -Regen doesn't even need one.

Oh but she does, which really has everything to do with the topic, too

Not only does Mental Manipulation get -Regen, it's slottable.

Totally forget about Drain Psyche. I'm an idiot, carry on.

Why not? It takes ten minutes to get it, it lasts for five minutes and it's freely available to everyone. What, is there some unwritten "no temp powers" rule for soloing GMs now? Going to throw out "no inspirations", too?

I apologize, I meant Rad/Sonic. I got out of work three hours early that night, I was so giddy that I could barely focus.

Actually, it's 85% for a level 50, and it works out to a 75% effective debuff for a 500% -Regen. 84% is level 49.

And I need to correct you here as well. 500% isn't a conservative estimate, it's on the high side. Only four powersets (Rad, Thermal, Cold and Mental) can keep that 500% on the target without lapse, and even then they're subject to the standard 5% chance to miss and require significant amounts of +Recharge, so there's no guarantee that even if they can overlap their debuffs, they'll be able to maintain 500% throughout the duration of combat.

None of the 1000% -Regen powers can be made permanent. The duration to recharge ratios prohibit it. The closest you can get is with Traps' Poison Trap, which has a 10s debuff and 90s recharge, but even if you hit the recharge cap you'll still be 8s short of perma, plus the 2.17s animation, making it work out to less than 500% in the end.

As such, 500% is not conservative because it doesn't account for misses or recharge.

Since you mention a damage saturated scrapper, here's the numbers I have for a damage saturated TA/Sonic.

Shriek/Scream/Shriek/Shout/repeat (-Res double-stacking begins on second run of chain, all attacks, resulting in 120% -Res)

Shriek base damage - 30.4
Shriek animation time - 1s

Scream base damage - 47.7
Scream animation time - 1.67s

Shout base damage - 76.6
Shout animation time - 2.67s

Total chain base damage - 154.7
Total chain animation time - 6.34s

Disruption - 20% -Res, 1.16s animation, double-stacked at 17.18s (third cycle of chain + Disruption animation time) for 40% sustained -Res.*

Acid with Achilles' Heel (averaged) - 24% -Res, 1.83s animation, add 1.83s every fourth cycle of chain to maintain.*

Chem nuke (5m duration) - 50% -Res, 2.03s animation.*

*Openers, no loss of DPS at outset of combat.

Chain damage at cap - 185.1 * 4 = 740.4

Chain damage at cap with 234% -Res - 740.4 * 3.34 = 2472.94

Chain animation time over course of 4 cycles (time at which animation becomes constant over course of combat) - Shriek * 8 + Scream * 4 + Shout * 4 + Disruption * 1 + Acid * 1 = 28.35s

Damage over course of 4 cycles - 9891.74

DPS - 9891.74/28.35 = 348.92

DPS after factoring 5% miss rate (excluding Disruption's animation time, since it is auto-hit) - 345.61

I believe that covers your requirements to cancel regeneration and still deal damage above and beyond that, does it not?

Again, Traps can't stack it. 10s duration on the -Regen, 90s recharge on the power, 500% maximum recharge. 90/5 = 18. 2.17s animation, total 20.17s between PTs. And since we are talking about solo play, I have to point out that it's highly unlikely that anyone can manage that solo for the duration of a GM fight (unless that fight lasted 1m or less, the duration of Geas of the Kind Ones/Force of Nature).

And you forgot Benumb in Cold Domination and Drain Psyche in Mental Manipulation. The recharge:duration ratios on those powers do allow them to be stacked (theoretically).

See above.

I, and the numbers, disagree. But the point of my responses to you wasn't to pick a fight or argue about who "needs" a Chem nuke or who has the better debuff, it was to make it clear that your comment about -Res only providing a minimal benefit was poorly thought out and unwarranted. You jumped the gun and said something that is patently and clearly untrue. This horse was disinterred, flogged and reburied a few months ago and the conclusion was the same then as it is now, one point of -Res is just as effective as 2-3 points of -Regen for the purposes of AV and GM fights, it's more widely applicable and useful throughout the entirety of the rest of the game (flooring a minion or lieutenant's regeneration is pointless. reducing the resistance of that foe, however, is not), and it's obtainable to far more players with far less reliance on extreme amounts of +Recharge to make it totally effective.

Do we have an understanding now?

Because it lasts two minutes, not five. You're probably thinking of the Bio nuke. Two minutes is not long enough to defeat the GM using the other numbers you give. And yes, lots of people do specify that they want to do it with no temps or inspirations. Notably, -Regen builds allow them to do that.

It exceeded the 300 DPS of a maxed out Scrapper, but no, it's still not enough. A level 50 GM has 70679.18 HP and a 0.5% regen rate. That means that its regen is 353 HP/sec. The chain above is just shy of that on average, and it loses the Chem benefit after 120s. (There are no known Scrapper builds that can overcome a GM's regen rate.)

In contrast, Rad, Cold, Traps, Mental Manipulation and Mental Assault are all known to have been able to defeat GMs. Check out Silverado's sig for links to a variety of GMs going down, including one /Traps character. Now, to be fair, not all of those sets are pure -regen - many also have +Damage and/or -DR. However, Mental Manipulation/Assault offer only -regen. (Note that Silverado mentions having no -RES at all on his Blaster up-thread.) There is no Dominator primary with -DR in it.

I have watched a IO'd out Rad/Psi take down a GM. What's key about that is that we know for a fact that a Rad/Psi cannot come close to this with their -DR or +DAM alone, even with the help of a Achilles' proc. That leaves the dominant factor in their effective DPS as -Regen. Even if they miss with an LR here or there, they can make net headway, even if the GM regens HP during gaps in the -Regen. Having gaps means just takes longer, but you can still succeed. The effect on their HP regen is so strong that you can take them down enough during the -Regen uptime that they still come out behind after having full regen during the downtime.

I forgot them? Sorry, not following. I did explicitly mention them, earlier.

I believe I've shown that you're incorrect. Using the example of some of the best -RES stacking I know of (Sonic Attack on top of a -Res primary), the requisite DPS to defeat a GM isn't met. Please let me know where I've gone awry in that analysis. Compared to the requirement to have Sonic Attack as the blast set, a fair number of the buff/debuff powersets have -Regen in them, and have been shown to be capable GM soloers when paired with any reasonable DPS blast set and not just Sonic Attack. I think that puts some burden of proof on the side of the -DR camp that -DR is more widely applicable... for GM soloing.

Again, I think you need to back this up, because right now, it looks like you're in the wrong.

None of which has anything to do with the price of tea in China for purposes of this thread. The OP stated an interest in builds that can solo a GM. Based on the numbers you gave, the Rad/Sonic can't without falling back on their -Regen. Since a Rad/Psi can do it, that suggests that Sonic Attack's -DR (and certainly not the Chem Nuke) are not actually the dominant factors in play, though you certainly came close with that specific build.

I have some suspicion you're arguing this point because you don't want people to get some sort of broad message that -Regen is better than -DR in general. Let me say clearly that I am not promoting such a message. The OP spoke of GM soloing, and -Regen has a niche role in making that possible using quite an array of powersets while using no temp powers. That's often a bit of a claim to fame for folks in the AV/GM soloing crowd. The phrase "no insps, no temps" comes up a lot.

Yes, welcome to the forums.

Aaaaaaand this is what happens when you talk out of your rear end without actually having any experience at all in the subject. First of all, the -1000% debuff from Traps can be permanent right off the bat, with SOs and Hasten. Why? you'd know if you actually had a slight clue of what you're talking about. Second of all, you mention Mental in your post, refering to Drain Psyche, which dominators also get, which they can slot, which then effectively becomes a 1000% regen debuff, which can be made perma. Way to contradict yourself?

It doesn't, GMs regenerate at 360hp/sec. And even if you could somehow manage beat their regen and do 361 DPS/sec, it would take you about 19 hours to kill a level 50 GM

Again, you're wrong

Except the numbers are incorrect, and -res is indeed very insignificant compared to -regen in an AV/GM fight.

We do, apparently you don't

....

Ever played /Poison? You list off /TA but you call /Poison minor?

/mindboggle

Yeah, why?

Envenom is a 50% regen debuff. After GM resistances, that's -7.5%. Compare that with powers like Lingering Rad, which work out to -75%, or Traps' version of Poison Trap, which is -100%, perma.

There's no -Regen in Poison's version of Gas Trap.

So ... what are you referring to?

Yup .

The only thing i have seen PGT miss against is the PFF skanks(diabolique and nemesis)

That's right. Heal enhancements actually boost both heal stats and regen stats of powers, and they never care if the base stat is positive or negative (buff or debuff). However, most of the Regen debuff effects are marked Ignores Enhancements and Buffs, meaning that even if you slot heal enhancers in them, the -Regen part of the power ignores the benefit.

Drain Psyche isn't flagged like that. Both the player +Regen and the for -Regen benefit fully from enhancement.