Is Martial Arts really that bad?
By
American_Dynamo,
Posted on: 2009-11-19 08:41 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I have a fully IO'ed out MA/SR 50 scrapper, that I have played for years and while I love MA for the theme of my character, the lack of a real solid secondary effects and only one AoE in MA make in middle of the pack in my opinion. If you have a MA/SD and have Shield Charge that obviously makes a second AoE, so there you go.
It makes it difficult to go +4/+8 with the one AoE and while I have soloed several AV's, I don't pack the power of many of the other archetypes
American-Dynamo 50 MA/SR: Freedom
2 RWZ challenges, 4 AV's solo'ed no temps, no insp
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What's your attack chain?...for fighting AVs.
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Originally Posted by American_Dynamo
I have a fully IO'ed out MA/SR 50 scrapper, that I have played for years and while I love MA for the theme of my character, the lack of a real solid secondary effects and only one AoE in MA make in middle of the pack in my opinion. If you have a MA/SD and have Shield Charge that obviously makes a second AoE, so there you go.
It makes it difficult to go +4/+8 with the one AoE and while I have soloed several AV's, I don't pack the power of many of the other archetypes |
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MA can keep a boss perma-stunned with Cobra Strike and Eagle's Claw, which SS can't do. That's about the only thing MA has over SS, but it is useful.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
MA's niche is stun/knockdown, but it only has a couple powers for each, so it can't reliably do either. And when put alongside SS, it would likely fall behind in pretty much every field.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Cobra Strike needs the Clobber treatment. If it got the same buff Clobber got it would easily be the second best power in the set next to Eagle's Claw.
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What do you mean overpowered?|
Originally Posted by LordSquigie
MA can keep a boss perma-stunned with Cobra Strike and Eagle's Claw, which SS can't do. That's about the only thing MA has over SS, but it is useful.
That's an interesting idea, but it might be a bit overpowered with Cobra Strike's animation time. |
Clobber has a 16s recharge with a 1.23 cast time.
Cobra Strike has a 20s recharge with a 1.67 cast time.
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Originally Posted by American_Dynamo
the lack of a real solid secondary effects and only one AoE in MA make in middle of the pack in my opinion.
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Just my 2 inf, but MA is meant to be a ST damage dealer, not a heavy AoE set. The much touted "lack of secondary effects" is mostly due to skipping the powers that stack the stun effects (this is similar in concept to how DB combos work - if you want the stun to be effective, take the powers that provide it). I have all but Warriors Challenge in my main and I've never experienced any problems perma stunning a target whilst I pommel them into oblivion.
IIRC, MA also has a higher crit chance on a few of the powers in comparison to other scrapper sets.
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I will chime in too, my main and namesake is a MA/SR/dark, and i have had consistant fun since very close to launch. The main annoyances i have had are marauder and the end of the lgtf, beyond that the set hits like a truck, and with dark's aoe's it can be properly nasty. plus, as said, it looks better than the other sets and hopefully will see more additional animations in the future. It has been buffed a few times, including some nice timing changes that salvaged cak.
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I don't really think it's the best solution though. MA already has enough single target damage. It has 4-5 ST attacks depending on whether or not you count CAK. Adding another single-target attack doesn't seem like it would change anything.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
What do you mean overpowered?
Clobber has a 16s recharge with a 1.23 cast time. Cobra Strike has a 20s recharge with a 1.67 cast time. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Martial Arts used to have visibly better Single Target damage than other sets and much less AOE. We thought it was designed that way, but then they fixed the bug that was giving a couple of powers more damage than they should have had, by formula, per recharge.
Ever since then, I've been unsure that MA was "designed" for anything, really.
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Hm. I thought Clobber had a longer cast time. In any case, MA doesn't really need another ST attack, and Cobra Strike works really well for perma-stunning a boss, so it would be a shame to loose that.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
What do you mean overpowered?
Clobber has a 16s recharge with a 1.23 cast time. Cobra Strike has a 20s recharge with a 1.67 cast time. |
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Clobber got it's damage massively increased and is still has the stun effect, that's what I meant. It still stuns just as well, but it hits a LOT harder now.
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Originally Posted by LordSquigie
Hm. I thought Clobber had a longer cast time. In any case, MA doesn't really need another ST attack, and Cobra Strike works really well for perma-stunning a boss, so it would be a shame to loose that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Yup, I know. The character was originally DB/WP, I deleted and rerolled at level 40 because the punch options in MA now fit the concept better. He was damn near unkillable with just generic IOs before I rerolled, so he should be pretty good once I get him back there.
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Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Gotta wait til 28 for heightend senses, that power really makes a difference for the set.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
well I roled an MA/WP scrapper on Pinn, dressed him up like a priest and named him Rev. Spinkick. I love it, he's kicking a lot of a** so far at lvl 10. I was worried about the no aoe at the moment part but being able to stun the heck out of one mob while you wail on the next one then finish off the one you stunned is awesome. Glad I posted this cause you guys totaly made a MA/ believer out of me lol. Rev. Spinkick is going to 50 if it kills me.
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This is not correct.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Clobber got it's damage massively increased and is still has the stun effect, that's what I meant. It still stuns just as well, but it hits a LOT harder now.
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The Stun was reduced significantly.
Cut in half if I'm not mistaken.
To compare: Both Stun (Energy Melee) and Cobra Strike last about 12 seconds. Clobber is 6 seconds.
So, no, Clobber now hits like a truck, and in exchange the stun was hammered hard.
In addition, MA gets Eagle's Claw which will consistently stack with Cobra Strike, EM gets Total Focus to stack with Stun. War Mace does not get a second 100% chance for stun attack.
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I'm liking cobra strike so much that I might just respec my brute to get stun. I've never taken it for NRG melee before because the damage was too weak. But I can deinitely see it going into my attack chain now.
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Pfft! Brutes don't take Stun! Time spent using Stun would be time better spent smashing people! |
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
I'm liking cobra strike so much that I might just respec my brute to get stun. I've never taken it for NRG melee before because the damage was too weak. But I can deinitely see it going into my attack chain now.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Points on why MA is awesome:
- Your tier 9 is you leap into the air and kick them IN THE FACE. THE FACE, MAN!
- Yes, you only get one AoE, but it's fast, looks sweet, and, oh by the way, it floors everyone it hits. Damage mitigation, good damage, and a nice animation.
- I'm told that Cobra Strike is pretty nice in an attack chain. It's there if you're into damage mitigation, but it's not my thing.
- MA just got a bunch of new animations. Sadly, most of the really nice ones replace attacks that already looked sweet, in my opinion, but there's still plenty of choices.
I personally took an MA/SR scrap to 50 and surprisingly, loved every second of it despite that /SR is a slow building secondary. At 50, it's not exactly built to be uber, but rather fun (She's built as a parkour expert... nutty run speed without superspeed. Ninja Run recently made this hilarious.) Ultimately, it's a very fun "natural" style scrapper.
To summarize, MA is a very fun set to play. If you're into looking awesome and having a fun, flipping, or just street fighting character, it's great. If you're a number cruncher looking to push your DPS higher, it might not be the best set. It's not terrible damage at all, but it's also not "the best".
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Yeah, MA is the "boot to the head!" set. The grab bag of effects works pretty well in practice. It's got knockback for what can't be stunned and stuns for what can't be knocked back. Also, Crane Kick is your very own crowning moment of awesome every time the knockback procs.
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Originally Posted by Blackdragon1686
Points on why MA is awesome:
- Your tier 9 is you leap into the air and kick them IN THE FACE. THE FACE, MAN! |
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I would have to agree with the above. However, I will note that, in my opinion, it is a late bloomer. It was my impression that at the beginning it was a little squishier than I expected. Bear in mind that this was my impression/perception and I have no numbers or particular expertise to back up that feeling. |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
MA equals awesome whoever told you other wise is either full of it or ignorant.
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Early RELATIVE squishyness aside ... I find it a very enjoyable set.
Geni
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Pfft! Brutes don't take Stun! Time spent using Stun would be time better spent smashing people!
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LOL, good point Dispari. He is quite the smasher....
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Yeah, that's pretty different from my experience. I soloed and teamed through a lot of stuff at the early levels and it was great. You get Crane Kick early on (level 8, I think), and that's some good ST damage for those levels. |
Originally Posted by satorisan
I would have to agree with the above. However, I will note that, in my opinion, it is a late bloomer. It was my impression that at the beginning it was a little squishier than I expected. Bear in mind that this was my impression/perception and I have no numbers or particular expertise to back up that feeling.
Early RELATIVE squishyness aside ... I find it a very enjoyable set. Geni |
For the rest, MA is weaker for AOE, but my MA/Regen has less issues than my Kat/SR in defeating foes (even at or close to the def cap, SR still is at the mercy of the RNG for some encounters). I have pretty consistent performance from the Regen part, of course, but using MA's stuns, KD, and picking up Air Superiority really makes his mitigation and survivability consistently strong.
And then there is the sheer fun of kicking everything around. I mixed in Air Superiority and Boxing to mix things up with the kicks, but most of MA's original animations are better than the new punching ones, in my opinion.
In short, there's nothing wrong with Martial Arts. Some sets might perform better, but not THAT much better. It's a great melee set.
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Ive made 2 very similar toons. One I took to the 20s (MA/WP) Scraper the other is an MA/Nin Stalker. I have to say the stalker is probably my 2nd fav toon ever made. The fist of annihilation is an awesome animation andis easily the hardest hitting attack you will get on any single toon until the 30s. While the complete lack of AoE on the stalker is kind of disconcerting, it fits the theme of the toon perfectly, especially on the setting I run. +0 +2. I slotted for major accuracy, BU + Assassinate = pretty much dead anything lower than a boss. I havent tried the cobra strike but I can see how that will help my toon a ton. Nin is amazing for defense (end is a lil heaving especially w/ MA as a primary). YMMV but if you are loving MA liek that, I highly suggest you try a MA/Nin Stalker. I go through story arcs (getting mad merits) faster than any toon Ive ever seen. Just my 2 inf tho.
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