Heal Other? Absorb Pain? What are these powers? >.>
My Emp only has Healing Aura, and then only because I have to have it 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Going to pretty much echo what seems to be the common sentiment. AP is nice, but ultimately skippable if you need to make space in your build. Once upon a time I used it heavily (approximately every 2 minutes. Hello heart attack tankers!) but now it mostly sits unused on my power bar. Sure 95% of the time I don't need it, but that 5% of the time that it's handy I'm really glad I have it. Admittedly this is AFTER everything is slotted out (not necessarily IOd, just that you have all your slots placed.) At early levels it's very handy to have a second heal, even if you are less capable of mitigating APs drawbacks. As heal other gets better slotting AP's usefulness goes down and the buffs also (greatly) diminish the situations where AP is necessary.
For the record, my empath does still have absorb pain but it's 3 slotted for straight up heal rather then holding a set. This lets it still be a big burst heal but since I rarely need it to begin with and even rarer do I need to spam it I'm not really missing the extra recharge that more slots would bring. That and I was running out of slots to place.
I have found that with PB Fort I rarely need heals at all for my team...much less AP.
When you can powerboost fort 3-4 players at a time, theres few teams that should have players in trouble enough to need healing. You fort the scrappers and blasters and everything exept STF Recluse is basically a neutered bunny.
If you run into a AV/GM maybe a poorly IOed tank might need a PB fort too, but in most circumstances, I slap my buffs on the damage dealers, then start trowin phantom armies and stuff- my healing rarely comes into play.
With IOs nowdays, theres really a lot less holes in builds that healing needs to plug. Many players cap def on their own, and those that dont just need the aforementioned PBed Fort to keep them green. Not getting hit means not needing heals.
Its actually a nice change in how my Ill/Emp plays. I nowdays spend alot more time buffing and casting PA/ST/blasting because the heal clicks are so infrequently needed on teams.
None of this might apply to those who dont slot membrane HOs into their fort, or who dont rely on PB, but once youre properly slotted up, you really can drop the extra heal power for something you will use more. Or just keep a second build with AP/ Heal Other just in case you do MoSTF... cant think of any other time youll ever really need AP.
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Not that this in any way diminishes your point but thought I'd point out: PBd forts are more accessible to controllers then defenders. Defender PBU takes twice as long to recharge as controllers PB. Controllers also get better modifiers on PB iirc. (My emp would kill for the controller PB :P)|
Originally Posted by SlimPickens
I have found that with PB Fort I rarely need heals at all for my team...much less AP.
When you can powerboost fort 3-4 players at a time, theres few teams that should have players in trouble enough to need healing. You fort the scrappers and blasters and everything exept STF Recluse is basically a neutered bunny. If you run into a AV/GM maybe a poorly IOed tank might need a PB fort too, but in most circumstances, I slap my buffs on the damage dealers, then start trowin phantom armies and stuff- my healing rarely comes into play. With IOs nowdays, theres really a lot less holes in builds that healing needs to plug. Many players cap def on their own, and those that dont just need the aforementioned PBed Fort to keep them green. Not getting hit means not needing heals. Its actually a nice change in how my Ill/Emp plays. I nowdays spend alot more time buffing and casting PA/ST/blasting because the heal clicks are so infrequently needed on teams. None of this might apply to those who dont slot membrane HOs into their fort, or who dont rely on PB, but once youre properly slotted up, you really can drop the extra heal power for something you will use more. Or just keep a second build with AP/ Heal Other just in case you do MoSTF... cant think of any other time youll ever really need AP. |
As I said your point still stands. My empath usually gives the PBU-Fort to the most AoE happy blaster and just lets em go to town. I spend (far) more time blasting then healing as a general rule.
Empathy is my fav set in game but i hate absorb pain. That is the only power i do not get from emp set. It is dangerous to use and can cost the team the healer if used at wrong time.
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If it only costs them a healer, and not an empath, then it's a small price to pay. |
Originally Posted by CosmicThunderer
Empathy is my fav set in game but i hate absorb pain. That is the only power i do not get from emp set. It is dangerous to use and can cost the team the healer if used at wrong time.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Too bad it isn't a permanent fix for "healers", eh?
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
If it only costs them a healer, and not an empath, then it's a small price to pay.
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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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Sorry for getting to this a bit late, but let's get to correcting your math.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Heal Other, at 50 on an Empath, has a base of just 262. Even if you cap that, you'll be doing maybe 524. If you max your recharge, you'll be doing one heal other about once every 2 seconds.
The activation time is 2.27 seconds. So you actually are hard-capped there on just how fast Heal Other can recharge. So, lets do the math. |
First off, the game lies about how long it takes to animate powers. For reasons I don't feel like explaining right now (but has been explained by Arcanaville in a single massive thread and numeroues other in a number of other threads that I'm too lazy to find any of right now), powers actually take up a larger period of time than the real numbers indicate. The actual amount of time powers take to animate (also know as Arcanatime) is determined by this formula:
((roundUp(baseAnimation/.132)+1)*.132) = realAnimationTime
Secondly, powers don't begin recharging until they are finished animating. This means that Heal Other's base activation cycle (re: no enhancements) is actually ~6.508 seconds (2.508 second Arcanatime + 4 sec recharge). With the slotting you're suggesting, the cycle would be reduced to 4.508 seconds (2.508 sec animation + 2 sec recharge). At the recharge cap (400% +rech = .8 seconds), the cycle on the power would be 3.308 seconds.
Now, getting around to comparing Absorb Pain and Heal Other, it's quite easy to see which is better for outright healing: Absorb Pain. Even factoring in how long the recharge is, the fact that the both of them have the same animation time should immediately tell you that Absorb Pain is better if only because animation time wasn't originally accounted for (and still isn't in most places) in effect. The only things that supposedly mattered way back when were recharge and effect.
To mathematically prove it, let's check out the fundamental cases of comparison: no (0%) recharge, SO (95%) +rech, and hardcapped (400%) +rech. They both got an animation time of 2.508 seconds (which we learned earlier), so their operational cycles are equal to (2.508 + ((baseRech)/(1 + rech)).
Heal Other(0%): 4 sec recharge, 6.508 sec cycle
Heal Other(95%): 2.05 sec recharge, 4.559 sec cycle
Heal Other(400%): .8 sec recharge, 3.308 sec cycle
Absorb Pain(0%): 15 sec recharge, 17.508 sec cycle
Absorb Pain(95%): 7.69 sec recharge, 10.200 sec cycle
Absorb Pain(400%): 3 sec recharge, 5.508 sec cycle
Now, because +heal slotting is a percent increase, it doesn't really matter what value you give it: as long as they would receive the same healing enhancement, the ratios between their two effectivenesses will remain the same no matter the enhancement level. Level also doesn't matter because the effectiveness of the heal is simply a percent of base max hp. Healing Aura heals 13.2% of base max hp with each application and Absorb Pain heals 65.8%.
Heal Other(0%): 6.508 sec cycle, 13.2% heal/cycle, 2.03% heal/sec
Heal Other(95%): 4.559 sec cycle, 13.2% heal/cycle, 2.90% heal/sec
Heal Other(400%): 3.308 sec cycle, 13.2% heal/cycle, 3.99% heal/sec
Absorb Pain(0%): 17.508 sec cycle, 65.8% heal/cycle, 3.76% heal/sec
Absorb Pain(95%): 10.200 sec cycle, 65.8% heal/cycle, 6.45% heal/sec
Absorb Pain(400%): 5.508 sec cycle, 65.8% heal/cycle,11.95% heal/sec
So, at first glance, you can immediately see that Absorb Pain with no +rech slotting is nearly as effective as Heal Other at capped recharge. Further making Absorb Pain look better is the fact that it uses up substantially less animation time than Heal Other. You will spend less time animating Absorb Pain than Heal Other because it's a larger effect per animation. In mathematical terms, assuming you're using the power as soon as it recharges, animation time usages would look like this:
Heal Other(0%): 6.508 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 38.5% animation time used up
Heal Other(95%): 4.559 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 55.0% animation time used up
Heal Other(400%): 3.308 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 75.8% animation time used up
Absorb Pain(0%): 17.508 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 14.3% animation time used up
Absorb Pain(95%): 10.200 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 24.6% animation time used up
Absorb Pain(400%): 5.508 sec cycle, 2.508 sec animation, 45.5% animation time used up
Once again, Absorb Pain is the obvious winner. Of course, this makes sense. Absorb Pain is supposed to kick the crap out of heal other. It has the side effect of significantly weakening the caster. Of course, Heal Other has one other big benefit over Absorb Pain that makes it useful: Heal Other is a smaller heal with a greater potential rate of use. Absorb Pain has a substantially longer recharge time so it's really only useful for healing a single target. Heal Other recharges fast enough that you can generally use it every other power (quite easily interposing it with Healing Aura and a blast). You can spread the healing love substantially easier than you can with Absorb Pain, which also has to deal with the issue of overheal which, with its ginormous healing ability, is rather common.
Either way, trying to claim mathematically that Heal Other and Absorb Pain are even remotely close to being within the same realm of effectiveness is an outright lie. Absorb Pain is worlds better than Heal Other. Of course, since heals aren't really all that necessary except for a few outlier situations, it's not like the choice between the two really matters. You can oftentimes get by perfectly fine without taking either so it's a moot point for most people.
Emp/Dark/Pow reporting in
I have both, I use both. Even though my Heal Other recharges faster than it casts, there are times (RWZ Raids, STF) when I have to spike heal, or hit two players far away from one another. Spike Heal Vs Spike Damage.
Of course, I've killed myself with it a few times, but I'm trying to remember if Regen Aura counters the -Heal to Self effect...pretty sure it does. Don't quote me on that (Derp :B)
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Absorb Pain has two negative effects, a -Regen and a -Resistance to Heal. Regen Aura will counter the -Regen (meaning that you'll regain Health due to Regeneration) but not the -Resistance to Heal (so Healing Aura won't help you).
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Originally Posted by Miyabi
Of course, I've killed myself with it a few times, but I'm trying to remember if Regen Aura counters the -Heal to Self effect...pretty sure it does. Don't quote me on that (Derp :B)
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Eh?
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Originally Posted by Miyabi
Emp/Dark/Pow reporting in
Even though my Heal Other recharges faster than it casts |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Apparently Miyabi doesn't realize that powers don't begin recharging until they finish animating. Of course, if anyone cared to even look at the actual numbers that I put up, which explicitly state that several times.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Eh?
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Emp/Rad, Ice/Emp at 50, a few others floating around various levels.
If you find yourself needing AP, or feel more comfortable having it, go ahead and take it. Be aware of its cost (the time you cannot be healed,) though.
For me, the Emp/Rad had it for a little while, then dropped it and never missed it after a respec. The Ice/Emp never had it. And I don't tend to consider it during my other builds. *shrug* The only times I've thought the "big heal" would help, I was *also* eating incoming fire, so it would've killed me.
My advice on it is the same as my advice on Taunt - if it's your first emp, take it, see if you use it and if it fits your playstyle. If not, and you think another power (which is NOT, EVER, EVER, EVER in the medicine pool!) would help you out more, switch it out for something else, but at the end of the day it's your character, your playstyle and your experience that matter more than all the opinions on the forums.
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I'm not even going to warrant you a proper response, Captain Literal.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Apparently Miyabi doesn't realize that powers don't begin recharging until they finish animating. Of course, if anyone cared to even look at the actual numbers that I put up, which explicitly state that several times.
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My Emp/Rad got up to the mid 40's without absorb pain, but my SG mates had been badgering me to take it so I finaly did. For my play style AP is only rarely used but it can make a massive difference. You see I don't often play my Empath on PUG's I know that not all PUGs are bad but there are more than enough out there for me to avoid them.
However on a team where the playstyles have meshed over time and we all know each others streangths and weeknesses, Absorb pain lets the team go that little bit furhter. With AP the tank knows they can grab that little bit more agro and that you can keep them alive if need be. And for the occasions when one of the squishier players accidentlay grabs agro or strays too close to the alpha strike you can pull them back with one power.
If you are looking at AP as just another heal other because your Heal other isnt coming back fast enough, well you may enjoy that play style but its not what I find fun. As for gather macro's my empath has the n key bound to say in local "gather", in the past team mates have asked why its not in team chat, as they wont here it if they are out of local range, but that is the whole point. If you are not close enough to hear it I am not waiting for you to get over to me
<QR>
I broke my 50 emp out for a STF last night. Outside of the LR tanking before the red tower was down, I used Absorb just a few times. Most of those were when Scriocco nuked and a few folks hadn't stepped back in time.
I like having it available, but Heal Other is my bread and butter heal.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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This sums things up for me. However - replace AP with HO |
Originally Posted by LadyMage
If your build is tight, AP is droppable.
It's useful, don't get me wrong. I've pulled some behinds out of some very nasty fires with it. But I really don't use it often at all. and go missions at a time without ever touching it. If you've got fort and AB slotted up for recharge, and know how to place them for mitigation, and are using your RAs when they're up, you should very rarely find yourself in a spot where HO isn't cutting it. |
. I only have room for one of them in my build, so I opted for AP. On general teams, with Fort, AB & Aura's, I hardly ever need the heals. When I do need heals, AP packs a much bigger wallop, and with the global recharge I'm running, it's back quick. The low END cost (on a Stamina-less Emp) is also good news. As to the downside. Regen Aura means I'm not dead in the water, and being a low agro magnet helps. If I'm having to heal, then I'm not the target.
-H
Absorb Pain is your 'Ohshi!' button. Yes, you don't need it all the time. You probably shouldn't use it all the time, nor should you really need it.
But it's incredibly useful. Running a ship raid while working for the VG armour on my empath, sometimes there are a lot of people that need healing all at once. Aura and Heal Other can patch the squishies back up fairly fast. But AP allows you to leave the tank/brute/non-squishy just that little bit longer while you get the other back in the green. THEN you hit AP and bring them back up to full.
Thats the beauty of it. I 3 slot if with just heals, since it recharges fast anyway and you shouldnt need it that often. And that heal can do a huge ammount of good. I was using it to keep somones Vanguard Heavy alive during the centre attack, and I could bring it from half dead to full in one go.
Far from a useless power. But it's all subjective. It might not suit everyone, while it suits others more.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Here's my emp/sonic:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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I've done STF enough times that I know I don't need AP. I assume that has to do more with the tank than with the h3al0r.
If the tank is a resist based tank you'll probably need AP. If the tank is defense based, you'll be able to softcap him with Fort.
I will say this: if you take AP, you might only want to have one attack. The last thing you need is to draw even the slightest agro while you bring your health down to dangerous levels.