City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Ninja Running

all_hell

By all_hell,
Posted on: 2009-11-12 20:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi View Post
want some cheese with that? Then don't buy it.
Learn to read, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failsight View Post
As for the patter-patter, I think it depends more on just what top speed you're hitting. At more regular speeds (NR or NR + Sprint), I don't think it looks ridiculous. Closer to SS speeds, I don't know.
I'm not saying it looks ridiculous, I'm saying it looks intentionally exaggerated. It's not a question of liking it, because it's very specific to the concept, and for what its intended purpose is, it works quite well. The leg movement is too sharp, in my opinion, but that's exactly how it is when ninja are represented doing it, so, again, it works for what it's intended to do. It's only actually BAD if you try to apply it outside the ninja concept, which it really isn't geared for. It could work, but it may very well just look odd.

Quote:
To me, running with a blade while standing upright actually makes less sense. You either have to move your arm to get into swinging position or hold it and jostle around with it.
While I'm a fan of the STANCE of running with, say, a sword, I have to agree with you. Swinging that big sword around as you run is not ideal and not necessarily what I'd pick as my first choice. I'm not sure what I'd choose instead, but it's fair to say that it'd be something more akin to the Ninja Run than what we have now, which is ironically a lot like how Samurai Jack carries his sword when he runs. I agree with you completely - the Ninja Run's interaction with weapons is amazing for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
People are using the Ninja Run to fill in for an actobatic style of running akin to what Champions has (which I've never seen) and find the running animation to be bad. While I'm not a fan of it, myself, all I'm saying is that it's not so much bad as it's very specific to a very narrow subset of what the image of "ninja" evokes. Which I guess was the point of the pack, seen as how we have the broad-spectrum ninja paraphernalia already freely available in the game.
Have to agree with the others here about it being a comic book superhero game. It needs to be over-exaggerated.
I mean, people are complaining that Dual Pistols is over exaggerated, but others are saying it looks friggin' awesome (like me). It's the same situation with Ninja Run.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom View Post
Have to agree with the others here about it being a comic book superhero game. It needs to be over-exaggerated.
I mean, people are complaining that Dual Pistols is over exaggerated, but others are saying it looks friggin' awesome (like me). It's the same situation with Ninja Run.
Why does everyone think I'm complaining? That was a COMPLIMENT! I don't need to LIKE something in order for me to appreciate it and admit that it does exactly what it was intended to do. In fact, this was an argument AGAINST people who were complaining about the run not fitting their character concept because it was too much "like Naruto." Well DUH! It's a ninja run, and a very exaggerated one. That was the point. It wasn't intended to be anything else. If you can use it for something else, then great. But if you can't, well tough. It does what it was meant to quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Why does everyone think I'm complaining? That was a COMPLIMENT! I don't need to LIKE something in order for me to appreciate it and admit that it does exactly what it was intended to do. In fact, this was an argument AGAINST people who were complaining about the run not fitting their character concept because it was too much "like Naruto." Well DUH! It's a ninja run, and a very exaggerated one. That was the point. It wasn't intended to be anything else. If you can use it for something else, then great. But if you can't, well tough. It does what it was meant to quite well.
Apologies for misunderstanding you, then.

 

Posted

Whilst I currently have about 1 character who would actually benefit from the looks of the run and almost everything else in the pack itself, I may use the power for all my new characters until they establish their own travel methods. I'm a bit surprised that its a toggle power and not something like a 2min speed boost with a large stealth component but I'm not going to complain about it.

I like the fact that it's an exaggerated animation, I'm a little too old for some of the latest cartoons but I have seen clips of some Japanese anime (or something) which the NR power emulates almost perfectly.

 

Posted

My one hope with the ninja run is that it's the start of something new. When we got costume change emotes, it was the start of something new. We got a bunch for free, and started getting them with pay packs. I hope that we start getting more run/walk animations. Not as many or as often, since it'd be crazy of me to suggest that considering how ninja run has to interact with so many different weapons. But something. Hopefully then, the worries about ninja run being too ninjay will be placated with some more universal run/walk animations.

My other hope is that I don't have to wait until mutant pack (or later) to be able to run/bound on all fours!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
My one hope with the ninja run is that it's the start of something new. When we got costume change emotes, it was the start of something new. We got a bunch for free, and started getting them with pay packs. I hope that we start getting more run/walk animations. Not as many or as often, since it'd be crazy of me to suggest that considering how ninja run has to interact with so many different weapons. But something. Hopefully then, the worries about ninja run being too ninjay will be placated with some more universal run/walk animations.

My other hope is that I don't have to wait until mutant pack (or later) to be able to run/bound on all fours!
On the one hand, we have precedent for this. We got wings as a veteran reward, and eventually they were put into the regular game. We also got, as mentioned, costume change emotes, and then got more of those in the regular game. On the other hand, we have precedent to the contrary. In the how many years since Trenchcoats were added into the game, we have not seen A SINGLE ONE added in addition to the ONE design that's in the veteran reward. We have a tuxedo with a coat tail, kind of, and the Magic Bolero has a similar technology, sort of, but that doesn't change the fact that we have ONE TRENCHCOAT. And then we have things like the Super Science "cosmetic surgeon" which I don't foresee ever making it into the game proper.

So I'm not sure what to say. About the only thing I can say is that I hope the ninja run is a precursor to either some kind of movement style customization, or at least to travel power customization, or AT LEAST to a new travel power that's sort of in that vein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
Brought on my Kin, and as expected Ninja Run stacks with Inertial reduction.

Huge leaps
I'm estimating that it adds about 20-25% height when jumping straight up.

I found this funny: got to the top of a tall building in SC, the one that's just a few feet from the highest height in the zone, turned on NR and then experienced endless rapid forward flips.

50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson

 

Posted

My new stalker is going to try and NOT go with a travel power. I'm planning on taking swift and hurdle, slotting both with respective speed/jump enhancements, and slotting sprint with some end redux, I usually skip health since the eventual regen set bonuses make up for it anyway. Can't wait to see how it goes with NR.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
There's a bit of a catch here. Without Combat Jumping, you have less friction than you do with Combat Jumping. However, with Combat Jumping on, you can KILL your lateral speed almost on a time just by moving in the air, whereas without it, you can't affect it much.
Incorrect. The base friction value for all airborne characters (whether flying or leaping) is 1.0. Every power which permits flight or leaping, except Combat Jumping, either doesn't change that value or it increases the value.

Hover increases friction to 100. Inertial Reduction increases friction to 40. Fly increases friction to 8. Et cetera.

Combat Jumping, however, reduces friction to 0.2. That's below the default value. It's the only power in the game which does that.

Without CJ, you move slower while airborne. With CJ, you move faster while airborne.

Quote:
Hell, even just holding down FORWARD while taking a super-speeding running leap with Combat Jumping on slows you down.
No it doesn't. You leap farther and retain more of your ground speed with CJ toggled on.

Yes, I do play a character with SS and CJ. Yes, I have tested this.

Quote:
Also, I do know "Jump Speed" stands for lateral movement speed while jumping, whereas "Jump Height" is the distance (or rather time) after which your upward thrust cuts out. To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to affect the speed of ascent in any way, and I don't know much about friction.
Jump Speed is what affects the speed of ascent. Descent speed can't be controlled, it's determined by the speed at which you were moving when you hit the apex of your leap (or fell). Descent speed is controlled by the code which governs falling, because that's all it is, falling. With leaping powers, you have directional control over that fall, but it's still a fall and you will move at whatever speed the engine is set to.

Jump Height determines the maximum vertical distance you can jump and partially controls the horizontal distance by limiting your height and therefore the maximum speed at which you can jump. Once you hit the apex of your leap, falling speed takes over and you're limited to that particular maximum.

Friction is a variable which determines how "sticky" the air is for you. The higher the value, the "stickier" the air, so you have things like Hover, which makes you move through air like it's a thick liquid. The lower the value, the less "sticky" the air is, so you move through it with less resistance, like with CJ, which allows you to change directions instantly, stop instantly, drift farther if you don't reverse movement, etc.

 

Posted

That was quite an informative post, Luminaria!

(what my +rep comment would have been)

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

physics FTW!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheekers View Post
I'm estimating that it adds about 20-25% height when jumping straight up.

I found this funny: got to the top of a tall building in SC, the one that's just a few feet from the highest height in the zone, turned on NR and then experienced endless rapid forward flips.
You can get the same effect with the GvE booster pack. It allows for continuous forward or backward flips over a significant distance.

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminara View Post
Without CJ, you move slower while airborne. With CJ, you move faster while airborne.

No it doesn't. You leap farther and retain more of your ground speed with CJ toggled on.

Yes, I do play a character with SS and CJ. Yes, I have tested this.
So have I. If you're jumping at a speed higher than what combat jumping allows, you snap back down to its regular speed. Try leaping off a Shadow Shard geyser and strafing with Combat Jumping on and off. Without it, you steer. With it, you drop into the void.

In fact, that's true with Super Jump, as well. Since the geysers shoot you at a speed faster than Super Jump provides, trying to steer with Super Jump on WILL cause you to slow down and come up short.

Quote:
Jump Speed is what affects the speed of ascent. Descent speed can't be controlled, it's determined by the speed at which you were moving when you hit the apex of your leap (or fell).
Are you positive about that? I've played with Super Jump a lot, and to my eye it seems to ascent at the same speed regardless of what it's slotted with, which is the same speed everything else short of Fly ascends at. Literally all jumping, and I've gotten quite a bit of jump height via combinations of Combat Jumping and Swift. What determines forward speed, then? I know friction only controls acceleration and deceleration, not maximum speed, so what controls that, then?

*edit*

OK, I'm seeing JumpHeight, SpeedJumping, MovementControl and MovementFriction. I'm assuming SpeedJump is the speed of ascent and MovementControl the lateral speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
OK, I'm seeing JumpHeight, SpeedJumping, MovementControl and MovementFriction. I'm assuming SpeedJump is the speed of ascent and MovementControl the lateral speed.
So, my question is... where's the forward speed variable for the various jump powers?

If JumpSpeed is actually AscentSpeed and I jump straight up and down and a higher AscentSpeed shoots me up faster (something I've never noticed), then when I press Forward, what variable is that?

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
So, my question is... where's the forward speed variable for the various jump powers?

If JumpSpeed is actually AscentSpeed and I jump straight up and down and a higher AscentSpeed shoots me up faster (something I've never noticed), then when I press Forward, what variable is that?
I always thought that was Jump Speed (or SpeedJump) but from the looks of things, it seems that it might actually be Movement Control, which doesn't seem to be one of the values displayed in Real Numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
So, my question is... where's the forward speed variable for the various jump powers?

If JumpSpeed is actually AscentSpeed and I jump straight up and down and a higher AscentSpeed shoots me up faster (something I've never noticed), then when I press Forward, what variable is that?
SpeedJumping is your forward speed; it's what's affected by your Jump enhancements. MovementControl/Friction are static, not affected by enhancements.

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

I have no idea whether SpeedJumping affects vertical speed in any fashion, and I've never paid any attention, since I can count the number of times my vertical speed has mattered on... um... zero hands. But it is the stat that affects horizontal speed while jumping.

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

This is all way too complicated for something that would probably save maybe 5 seconds on your trip to the mission.

Heck half the time I bounce around because it looks cool, not caring that it's a solid 20 MPH slower than running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

So, if all that is the explanation for friction and such, what does this have to do with the fact that I've all of a sudden started drifting around uncontrollably if I get stunned with Hover on (since the last couple of patches or so)? Bug, feature, aspect of friction?

"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"

Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers

A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olantern View Post
So, if all that is the explanation for friction and such, what does this have to do with the fact that I've all of a sudden started drifting around uncontrollably if I get stunned with Hover on (since the last couple of patches or so)? Bug, feature, aspect of friction?
Probably because hover's friction/defense gets suppressed when mezzed, but the fly portion of the power does not go away without some high mag -fly attribute.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Of course, I also support the addition of other styles of super-bitchin run animations included in future sets, or grafted on to Ninja Run after the fact.

It's so super fun everybody should have their own flavor!
Totally true. We need a robot run, a catgirl run, a disaffected loner run, and a sexy hawtness run!

--NT

They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!

If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
Totally true. We need a robot run, a catgirl run, a disaffected loner run, and a sexy hawtness run!

--NT
Yeah, but we need them to be used in REGULAR travel, not just unenhancible, novelty prestige powers. That is to say, I want to see customizations of the ACTUAL travel powers, along with customization of our base run styles. Booster packs are good, but I'd like to see these added to the base game's base functions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.