Can we get a tier thread?

heh. Or maybe not.

Results take 1
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132369

Results take 2
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894

I think Gloom is left out of the second bunch of results, to be fairer to Scrappers (and so Castle won't notice it )

You're coming into it with the wrong mindset. CoH doesn't really have "tiers". Some sets are better than some things in others but usually in a marginal manner or they trade something out for better performance in one area.

Then again, that is the general definition of what a "tier" is in MMO nomenclature so yeah...

I like it. I'm a fan of my Warmace/Willpower Brute and it really picks up in momentum once you get a hold of the various AoEs and master using them.

Based on your "AoE freak" condition, I'd recommend Warmace. It's got a share of AoE powers and they all have a nice..."crunch" associated with their usage. As for the secondary... Willpower should work out nicely for you.

Thanks, helps alot, was messing around getting brutes toons to 8ish trying to gauge (limited perspective, I know) , Mace seemed really powerful, but I'm just afraid It's going to be super slow before I can combo without brawl, so my heart isn't set, but it's looking like my best option. Until wowed by something greater.

I also hear Mace has horrible end issues and I kinda like using haste..not sure how that's going to work out, lol.

SS is far from the "unquestionable" best as Bill Z showed you (although his results only deal with single target attack chains).

SS is a great "all around" set. It's also a set with built in mitigation through knockdowns.

It does ok single target damage, and has very strong AoE capability through footstomp.

Rage opens up interesting possibilities with the more offensive Secondary sets.

1. Unless you're under L20, you shouldn't need brawl with SS.
2. Gloom is not a "filler" move. Gloom is awesome.
3. Hitting multiple foes as often as possible and "shredding" through them sounds like Claws might be a set for you to look into. It does both of those with aplomb.

Then I think you'll be happy with SS/WP, WM/WP or Claws/WP.

They'll all be fast and fun. You'll have little downtime, and they are all sets that do well in a variety of situations (none of them are overly specialized).

Sounds like a good summary, Solid AoE damage, Solid AoE control (clap is badly underrated), Solid ST damage, Solid ST control. I'd just like to add a few notes:

SS has strong AoE for two reasons:

1. The radius of footstomp gives you much more from your attack than similar powers. Don't underestimate the value of a bigger AoE. In situations where your crew has a LOT of AoE, this one will compete with what the corruptors are doing, at least for the first crunch. If you want more, see 2.

2. Rage adds to the power of your other AoEs, be they from your patron pool, or from your secondary, in that they become more accurate, and more damaging. When I picked a primary for my cone-chaining blast brute, I picked SS to simplify accuracy and slotting of my mako attacks, and to add to the already better than modest punch fury gave them. Having stomp to finish things off, or for versatility was just the icing on the cakewalk.

I find SS to be wonderfully balanced, but somewhat less frenetic than other brute sets. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to feel truly rabid, it might be a little more deliberate than you'd want.

Soft-capped War Mace/Shield is what you are looking for.

(Soft capped defense, in this case, means you use IOs to stack defense bonuses with your armors to achieve the same thing as what perma-elude once did. You drop all incoming attacks to the ToHit floor.)

On a Brute brawl serves as a very good fury builder. Set it on auto and let it fill any gaps in your attack chain. After all it doesn't cost any endurance to use and you will like seeing your fury bar fill up faster.

Okay, my short take on each brute primary. Because I've been on this game too freaking long and I'm bored waiting for my breakfast casserole to cook.

Battle Axe - Looks silly on anything other than the huge build. Lethal Damage type, but it still manages to dish out some nice damage. You can make an AoE combo with Cleave, Whirling Axe, and Pendulum with a Gash or Swoop thrown in. It has the same animations as broadsword and Mace. It's flavor is Knockdown, sending enemies soaring on impact. That keeps them from hurting you, and it's always impressive to see things go high in the air.

Claws - The new guy. I love the fast attacks and low endurance cost. My lv 9 builds up fury quickly, and keeps it going for as long as there are enemies. It looks neat (minus Eviscerate, IMHO), and with a set with an auto recharge power like Electric Armor or Super Reflexes you can keep up a continuous stream of damage with incredibly high fury.

Dark Melee - This set gets a bad rap due to being much weaker in early issue of the game and having very little AoE. However, now it is a very solid set with a nice damage type, its own self-heal, its own recovery power, a unique build up, and good DPS. The lack in AoE Damage can only be overcome if you go /Shield, but going for SR or EA might be smarter. Dark is also unusual in that it has both a melee range Immobilize and Fear power, to keep you from being overwhelmed.

Dual Blades - Flashy, fast recharge, cool looking, and combos to boost damage and drop enemy attributes, with Dual blades you wanna keep looking for that next enemy to ginzu. It has a considerable endurance cost and lethal damage, but I find it to be an extremely fun set. Some Dual Blades attacks and combos will knock enemies down.

Electrical Melee - Meh ST damage, but the most noticeable AoE Brute set. With Thunderstrike, Lightning Rod, and Chain Induction you'll be hitting a lot of enemies. It looks cool and deals good damage. Go /Shield and you can throw in Shield Charge, another AoE. A lot of people love their Elec Brutes. It's Energy and Smashing damage, with some attacks being pure energy.

Energy Melee - ST damage and stuns is what this set is about. This set has extremely strong Single Target damage that used to be all the rage in PvP. It also has two Extreme-level attacks. The stuns will protect you from the enemy you're currently swiftly murdering, but not much else. It's Energy and Smashing damage.

Fiery Melee - Another high-damage AoE set, fire has been overshadowed by other sets over the issues. It's a simple set. You deal fire damage, and the added effect is more fire damage over time. Your job is to burn everything. I think its fun, but it doesn't do anything to help you protect yourself from enemy attacks, and it's become less popular.

Stone Melee - Not much AoE damage attacks in this set, but you can knock them back pretty often with Fault and Tremor. I think of this as more of a Tanker set, but the ST damage is pretty good. Smashing damage, mostly knockback effects, but Fault and Stone Fist have Stun, and Seismic Smash has a Hold. I find it hard to build fury.

Super Strength - Big extended punches, followed by enemies dying. Super Strength has one AoE attack that somehow nominates it for AoE set status. It also has Rage, which can be thought of as a build up that can be made perma. This is what you think of when you think of brutes. SS has Smashing damage, and lots of it.

War Mace - It's basically Battle Axe with Stuns in some of the attacks and Smashing Damage, as far as gameplay appearances go. It has high endurance cost, and I think it has higher damage than Battle Axe due to having two Extreme-level damage powers. Its power animations are all the same as those in Battle Axe and Broadsword (minus Broadsword's Parry).

Feel free to yell at me for anything I said. I really don't care enough to fix it, though.

If someone want to quote this and fix whatever you think I said wrong, then you'll have actually accomplished something. I won't be upset with you for being more precise than I was.

Stone Melee does feel very smash-raar to me, but the bit I've bolded is totally and utterly correct. SM can be an absolute horror to earn and maintain Fury on I've found. I really, really want to respec my Stone/Fire to replace one of the Hammers with Air Sup. At the moment it's very hard to get a smooth attack chain with no gaps (Brawl helps of course but even so). The other issue is, oddly, the amount of Knockdown and control he has. It's almost too much. I've found it's very easy to over-mez the enemies you're fighting which means your other source of Fury dries up.

Plus the End Costs are horrific. If you're going Stone make sure you either slot lots and lots of End Reductions (and Recharges, Damages are almost the last thing to slot) or/and pick a secondary with good End Recovery powers. A Stone/Dark Brute sounds like possibly the worst combo for End I can think of.

I've actually known people who have run a Stone/Dark so that they could Stack Oppressive Gloom and Fault. Of course, those people were TANKERS, so they didn't have to worry about the lack of fury. Brute-wise, this would be a terrible combo due to the excessive endurance cost and lack of enemy combat to bring up your fury.

tell that to Ganondorf...


speaking of, a tad off topic but, does the name "Meno Underwater" ring a bell to you, Mr. Squid?