Defense is usually 2x Resistance, right?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2009-11-02 20:39 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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It is.|
Originally Posted by Futurias
Isn't that insanely overkill?
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Go tell that to the people whining that defense is overpowered and resistance sets need to be buffed.
-40% defense is pretty dang nasty.
That'd knock my SR's 46% melee defense down to 44%.
Be well, people of CoH.
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That would be because of the defense debuff resistance?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
-40% defense is pretty dang nasty.
That'd knock my SR's 46% melee defense down to 44%. |
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Yea. For defense based sets that don't cap DDR, a 40% defense debuff is murder on a stick. It's why so many shield users double stack active defense.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
That would be because of the defense debuff resistance?
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Be well, people of CoH.
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And considering that it lasts for quite some time and also doesn't make a lick of sense...|
Originally Posted by Futurias
So -40% resistance is considered a huge power.
Why do Paragon Police have a -40% defense power? On AOE. Isn't that insanely overkill? |
(We're talking about Flashbang Grenades, for those unaware.)
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Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
How much Defense Debuff Resistance do Ice/* Tankers get?
Oh yeah ... **NONE** ...
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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The correct answer is ~52%.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
How much Defense Debuff Resistance do Ice/* Tankers get?
Oh yeah ... **NONE** ... |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
OP: yes. It's pretty nasty. On the bright side, once they're hitting you 95% of the time it doesn't get any worse than that.
[I was getting slaughtered by DE dropping quartzes on a res-based toon earlier this week... ow.]
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
HA! I got neg repped for my first post in this thread.
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I guess the person in question doesn't know enough about SR to realize that ANY SR user with ED capped slotting in the 6 primary SR powers at 50 is DDR capped.| "your" SR's melee defense |
Here comes the learnin...
ED cap multiplier for defense is ~1.56
DDR from each toggle: 13.84
DDR from each passive: 6.92
13.84*3 = 41.52
6.92*3 = 20.76
Total base DDR without enhs: 62.28
With 3 even level Defense SOs in each power: 97.1568 capped at 95
That's it. SOs. neenerneener.
Be well, people of CoH.
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The "SWAT" variety of PPD are insane overkill, period. They can slow the bejeezus out of you, ream your defense, make it so you can't hit squat, and debuff your DR. Oh, and just for fun, they can pop ranged "assassin snipes" on you, though those aren't that brutal ... on their own.|
Originally Posted by Futurias
So -40% resistance is considered a huge power.
Why do Paragon Police have a -40% defense power? On AOE. Isn't that insanely overkill? |
The SWAT PPD are foes that would be considered farily damn annoying by a lot of characters at level 50, at least solo. Why they are put in at level 20s is mostly beyond my comprehension. Someone was feeling particularly cruel, or convinced that villains were wildly overpowered in PvE.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
It's always struck me as odd that the PPD gets _easier_ at higher levels. Balanced, I suppose, by Longbow.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I like that villains get insane groups to fight. Makes us hardy |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Someone was feeling particularly cruel, or convinced that villains were wildly overpowered in PvE.
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So is it not possible to debuff DEF on resistance sets?
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
It is.
Go tell that to the people whining that defense is overpowered and resistance sets need to be buffed. |
And don't forget that I think there's a huge -ToHit along with that, too.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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You can't debuff anything lower than the 5% floor.
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Originally Posted by tarrantm
So is it not possible to debuff DEF on resistance sets?
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Be well, people of CoH.
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I don't like it when I'm level 20. It doesn't make anyone hardy. It's not like fighting mobs that debuff the crap out me when I really have no recourse for preventing it actually gives me any benefit. All it does is slow me down in that level range. Most people faced with foes that slow them down a ton just avoid that content if they can, since doing other stuff is less slow.|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
I like that villains get insane groups to fight. Makes us hardy
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I'm all for looking for challenge in the game... to a point. I think SWAT PPD are well beyond that point for the capabilities of the characters that fight them at that level range.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Well then we disagree. So just avoid them |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't like it when I'm level 20. It doesn't make anyone hardy. It's not like fighting mobs that debuff the crap out me when I really have no recourse for preventing it actually gives me any benefit. All it does is slow me down in that level range. Most people faced with foes that slow them down a ton just avoid that content if they can, since doing other stuff is less slow.
I'm all for looking for challenge in the game... to a point. I think SWAT PPD are well beyond that point for the capabilities of the characters that fight them at that level range. |
When the Equalizers and Ghosts show up in mayhems, that's when I stop doing mayhems.
That DEF debuff isn't just murder on DEF players, it's murder on everyone. Plus it comes coupled with a -40% ToHit debuff, which is basically the dumbest thing ever. At least until you learn it lasts for 60 seconds. THAT is the dumbest thing ever. That's on top of the glue patch + Web Grenade and Acid Mortars debuffing you to oblivion.
Outside of that, the only time my characters feel so overwhelmed is high level Longbow, who autohit debuff RES to severe negatives, cut away at DEF, floor regen, and pin you down with -RECH and -speed. Those are basically all of the possible self-defense stats that someone can have (heals being affected by the -RECH), so once all those are cut down, you just die.
I agree that a one-minute -40% DEF debuff is just ridiculous. But I also think Vanguard Curses, Carnie Masks, and Malta Sappers are just as bad. I'm not sure why the devs took the approach they did with "hard" gangs, but it seems like the only way to present a challenge is to introduce something that's so absurd that a SINGLE POWER can make even a rugged character topple like a house of cards. The powers tend to be so ludicrous that people avoid the gangs entirely, if at all possible.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I'm curious. What, exactly, do you do, when they hit you with -40% toHit for 60 seconds? Do you just whiff at them? When they debuff your movement to a crawl, how do you go kill them, since most of them stay at range?|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
Well then we disagree.
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Or is the situation here that you always face them on a team, where you can have enough buffs and debuffs to overcome these issues?
I know it's not that you have characters so bad-*** that they can just brush off these effects. Not at level 20. Not even with IOs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Don't know about him, but I just make damn sure the ghosts die first. If they do get the tohit debuff off, I pop yellows.
Be well, people of CoH.
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With me it's the Equalisers that get their spines removed via their backs. Or generally meet a gruesome and, most importantly, swift end.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Don't know about him, but I just make damn sure the ghosts die first. If they do get the tohit debuff off, I pop yellows.
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-hit I can deal with. I have yellows. If I dont, I have 'Run the F away'.
AoE locational glue that ISNT locational but lasts for damned ages and makes me worse than a Stone Tanker?
For that matter...what the frag does it DO to Stone armour? I think that thought it too horrible to think...
I laugh at the people who say a PPD EAT would be 'Underpowered'. I take it they have never fought Paragon's finest in any decent numbers, and certainly not the SWAT division?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Do you really? |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I know it's not that you have characters so bad-*** that they can just brush off these effects. Not at level 20. Not even with IOs.
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Same, those guys just put a huge massive "defeat me first" bullseye on themselves
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Yes. I do.|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
Do you really?
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Feel free to set me straight.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
So -40% resistance is considered a huge power.
Why do Paragon Police have a -40% defense power? On AOE.
Isn't that insanely overkill?
Still here, even after all this time!