Where to get Win7 + i7 + 5870?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2009-10-30 21:31 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
gonna have a hard-time outside of the premium guys you listed that will put that combo together.
Also, even if you don't run multiple-monitors, dual GPU's can still be very valuable. Crossfired or SLI'd cards can give anywhere from a 30%-90% performance increase.
**
As far as liquid cooling goes.. yes / no / not really.
Yes, you should be wary of liquid cooling. They do require extra maintenance compared to air-cooling. You will need to keep an eye on the reservoir and make sure you treat any additional water with an anti-rust / anti-fungal solution.
No, you shouldn't be wary of liquid cooling. It's not really that complex, and if you buy from a vendor that put the system together for you, you can be pretty sure that the unit was tested leak-free. It's a great way to increase the cooling potential of a computer system while lowering the noise. There is a trade-off though. While the processor will certainly run cooler, unless you've also got the Northbridge and GPU's cooled through the same block, they'll actually run hotter due to lack of additional air movement in the case.
not really: Unless you intend to run some serious overclocks, Liquid Cooling isn't really all that great. If you just intend to run stock clock speeds or low overclocks, Air Cooling will do just fine.
Dual GPUs aren't currently taken advantage of by CoX (they will work but any performance increase will be minimal if any, physX not supported either by GPU), although Ultra mode may/should/will support it (*crosses fingers*).
Additionally, the new 58x0 cards from AMD/ATi support 3 or 6 monitors, so it is highly unlikely that you would need another GPU to support more monitors unless you are a graphic designer, day trader or Dr. Evil.
Water cooling isn't needed at stock speeds. Since you aren't looking to build your own system, it is highly unlikely that you want to get into the hassle of maintaining a water cooled system.
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The performance benchmarks that Tom's Hardware does shows that dual GPUs always give a significant increase in performance, especially at higher resolutions (and multiple screens). Now, they don't test CoH, but I imagine one of the ten games they benchmark is similar to CoH. Now it might not matter in the sense that it might be a difference of 90 fps v. 70 fps which is beyond one's capability to see a difference.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Dual GPUs aren't currently taken advantage of by CoX (they will work but any performance increase will be minimal if any, physX not supported either by GPU), although Ultra mode may/should/will support it (*crosses fingers*).
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| Water cooling isn't needed at stock speeds. Since you aren't looking to build your own system, it is highly unlikely that you want to get into the hassle of maintaining a water cooled system. |
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Except actual experience of people with dual cards has shown that they do NOT help for CoH.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The performance benchmarks that Tom's Hardware does shows that dual GPUs always give a significant increase in performance, especially at higher resolutions (and multiple screens). Now, they don't test CoH, but I imagine one of the ten games they benchmark is similar to CoH.
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Another vendor is Puget Systems. But it is a touch more expensive than the other two but actually list the manufacturer of every component from the power supply to the case fans. Personally I like to know the origin of my components.
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The prices are about the same, and since they're overclocking the CPU for you, it may be the best deal.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Another vendor is Puget Systems. But it is a touch more expensive than the other two but actually list the manufacturer of every component from the power supply to the case fans. Personally I like to know the origin of my components.
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So, you're going to pay them $700 to put together a $1400 system...|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I'm not going to bother putting it together myself. I want one that's put together for me. But for the configuration I'm looking for, I've only found Dell's Alienware, and Velocity Micro that can put that all together (both for about $2,100).
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Interesting...
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| 1. Any other place to look? |
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| 2. Should I be wary of liquid cooling systems? |
Do you want to have to worry about leaks killing an expensive machine?
Do you want to deal with the maintenance such a system requires?
If the answer to ALL of these is anything less than a resounding "YES!", you don't want it.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
First, here's a link (http://www.notebookrepairguide.com/c...tebook-laptop/) to a site featuring bunch of custom system builders. The actual link is in regards to notebooks, but most of these builders also deal with desktop computers. Just beware, the page is not all that well maintained, so some of the companies are gone and also some of them are for the UK, but its a good place to start looking. One site not listed there that you can also try is digitalstormonline.com.
Next, as far as liquid cooling goes, most of these custom builders will just use small CPU closed loop coolers that are okay for maintaining good temps at stock settings, but they're no good for overclocking. Unless you plan on doing some fairly extreme overclocking and are willing to spend the money on a mid to high end liquid cooling system, you'd do better to stick with air cooling. I'm running a Core i7 920 at 3.6GHz (stock is 2.66GHz) with a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme air cooler and even under full load my core temps are never going above 60 degrees Celsius.
If you're going to go for a system from a custom builder, I suggest a company that allows you to choose the brands of parts that you want (ibuypower.com, cyberpower.com, digitalstormonline.com, pugetsystems.com) and then study up on the parts so you know what you're getting, as opposed to something like Alienware, which uses entirely unbranded parts so you've got no idea exactly how good/reliable your system components are supposed to be.
Finally, for dual cards and CoH, dual card set-up haven't been supported by this game for quite some time. This is something to be especially wary of if you decide to get for a dual GPU card like the GTX 295, Radeon HD 4870x2 or the upcoming HD 5870x2, as you'll only be able to use half that card's power when playing CoH. When I force any sort of dual card rendering on the game, I get a noticeable decrease in my FPS. However, just one of my cards can max out all the settings in CoH and still maintain 60 FPS with vsync on.
Falcon Northwest
I'm on my second Mach V now, they make good machines. Check out how you can customize it pretty much anyway you want.
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That definitely is the Cadillac of systems. But their cost is about $500 - $1,000 more than the others.|
Originally Posted by Eislor
Falcon Northwest
I'm on my second Mach V now, they make good machines. Check out how you can customize it pretty much anyway you want. |
I'm leaning toward a system built by cyberpower.com. AnandTech gave them a good rating and they're about $300-$500 cheaper than the other sites.
Check out: www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/LAN_Party_Commander. The problem is so many choices, especially figuring out which PSU and motherboard to go with.
And a big thanks to all who provided feedback!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
That definitely is the Cadillac of systems. But their cost is about $500 - $1,000 more than the others.
I'm leaning toward a system built by cyberpower.com. AnandTech gave them a good rating and they're about $300-$500 cheaper than the other sites. Check out: www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/LAN_Party_Commander. The problem is so many choices, especially figuring out which PSU and motherboard to go with. And a big thanks to all who provided feedback! |
Well, looking at the system you linked to. I'd take pretty much the default options. Upgrade the video card and add a second hard drive.
If you need a monitor, tack that on too. The default offering is actually pretty decent right from the get-go.
If you really want to spend more than $1500-1600, you can go nuts.
About my only advice is to avoid the paid-for "factory overclocking".
Money+Toilet+Flush.
Also, here's a couple promo codes that actually appear to work:
REPEAT (Good for 5% (about $70 in the base config) off)
twitter (Good for $25 off)
myspace (Good for $30 off)
(Hint: Use REPEAT)
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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The jump from 70fps to 90fps is noticeable. The human eye tops out at around 120fps, and while we can't actually see anything better, we do process the smoothness that a higher fps than 120 gives you. 60fps is the industry standard for reducing headaches and vertigo in people that are susceptible to video game induced motion sickness. While CoX may see a minor performance increase from multi-GPU setups, it is still a 5 year old game, and there is only so much raw power that can help. I would be very very surprised if a multi-GPU setup would give more than a 5% increase in CoX from just a single modern GPU card.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The performance benchmarks that Tom's Hardware does shows that dual GPUs always give a significant increase in performance, especially at higher resolutions (and multiple screens). Now, they don't test CoH, but I imagine one of the ten games they benchmark is similar to CoH. Now it might not matter in the sense that it might be a difference of 90 fps v. 70 fps which is beyond one's capability to see a difference.
Not having liquid cooling is not an option for these sites. It seems right now I'm ordering a Cadillac and I don't think I can ask for one without a radio. |
Keep in mind that while LCDs have a max refresh rate of 60Hz, it works very differently than a CRT where 60Hz would KILL you to look at. 60Hz on a CRT means a max of 60fps. This is not true on an LCD.
Watercooling is neat to look at, but pretty well a useless thing for anyone not overclocking. Even overclocking, modern chips really don't need that kind of cooling unless you are an *extreme* overclocker. Add in the possibility of catastrophic damage if it gets damaged, and it just doesn't seem worth it to me. But if it is a requirement from the site you oder from... <shrug>
Zombie, try building a Talon (budget line from Falcon Northwest) and see if that's more to your liking.
N.B.: Overclocking is free and you still have Falcon's warranty on the system.
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The Talon becomes competitive because it uses the new 800 series of i7's.|
Originally Posted by Eislor
Zombie, try building a Talon (budget line from Falcon Northwest) and see if that's more to your liking.
N.B.: Overclocking is free and you still have Falcon's warranty on the system. |
The 800 series is a slightly nerfed *and* boosted version of the 900s.
Nerfed in that they're 2 channel instead of 3 and their overclocking is locked to base multiples.
Boosted in that it has more dynamic 'Turbo' mode where any of the 8 hyperthreads are automatically overclocked on the fly by the CPU.
The tests run by 3D Guru show that the best of the 800 series can sometimes out-perform the worst of the 900 series in specific cases, but in general, the 900 series is overall faster.
The real benefit of the 800 series is that it's more of a bargain for when budgets put the 900 series out of reach.
If I spec out an 800 series machine on CyberPower.com, it still beats out Falcon Northwest by a few hundred dollars.
(Can you tell I've been doing a lot of research for this purchase?
)
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I pulled the trigger. I decided to go with the brand new Radeon 5970 which is basically two 5870s in one card. This way, if three or four years from now I need to upgrade the graphics, I can just drop an extra Radeon in there for triple or quadruple GPU Crossfire fun. The cost of the combined card is less than two cards Crossfired.
And I splurged: SSD boot-and-app 'hard drive', overclocking an i7-920, extra sound proofing and cooling features.
With 1000W PSU I should be able to overclock the GPU, too.
I expect that from the time I hit the power-on button, ten seconds later I'll be entering Grandville with all settings maxed and no lag.
And I know I paid extra for features that I could have done myself... I'm ok with that.
Here's the final specs (link is only good for 7 days from this post):
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saving/show.aspx?id=2356900
The highlights:
CyberPower X58 Configurator
- BASE_PRICE: [+745]
- CASE: In-Win Maelstrom Full Tower Gaming Case w/ Sound Absorbing Foam [+67] (Black Color)
- POWERSUPPLY: 1000 Watts Power Supplies [+114] (CoolerMaster Silent Pro [+65])
- MOTHERBOARD: Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard SAS Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA w/ eSATA [+139]
- CPU: Intel® Core i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366
- OVERCLOCK: Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more) [+49]
- FAN: CoolerMaster V8 Gaming CPU Cooling Fan (Extreme Silent Operation at only 22dBA + Overclock Proof) [+58]
- HDD: Single Hard Drive (160 GB Intel X25-M 2.5 inch SATA Gaming MLC Solid State Disk (Nearly Instant Data Access Technology) [+442])
- HDD2: Single Hard Drive [+44] (1TB (1TBx1) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+55])
- MONITOR: 24' LCD - Asus VH242H Wide Screen TFT Active Matrix LCD Display (Black) - Fall Special [+199]
- MEMORY: 12GB (2GBx6) DDR3/1600MHz Triple Channel Memory Module [+332] (Corsair Dominator [+89])
- OS: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium [+104] (64-bit Edition)
- SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
- SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
- VIDEO: ATI Radeon HD 5970 PCI-E 16X 2GB DDR5 Video Card [DirectX 11 Support] [+863] (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
PRICE: (+3477)
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I know Zombie already purchased this, but I have to point out one thing - |
Originally Posted by je_saist
As far as liquid cooling goes.. yes / no / not really.
Yes, you should be wary of liquid cooling. They do require extra maintenance compared to air-cooling. You will need to keep an eye on the reservoir and make sure you treat any additional water with an anti-rust / anti-fungal solution. |
If you see a picture with tubes running everywhere full of neon green/blue/pink/"cool color of the day" liquid, expect maintenance. BUT, there's an OEM cooler out there that you don't worry about maintenance with - Not saying 'you don't have to,' but being a completely sealed two (or, I believe, three, depending on model) piece system, you *can't.*
It doesn't, from one of the last discussions over this, seem to perform much differently than straight air, but it *is* out there (and seemingly somewhat common.)
Seriously consider building your own. Not only do you save money, but you get to know your computer from the inside out. Building a computer from parts is not much harder that upgrading one now.
Parts Needed.
Case: ATX (pick one you like, there are 1000's, I like the Antec 900)
Power Supply: 750 watts
Motherboard: All the one socketed for i7s will work
Memory: Sold in sets match to the motherboard and CPU
HD: Pick your size, go with WD black series for gaming SATAs are no brainer hookups
DVD: All the writers work, just pick one you want, bigger names tend to be quieter, not always better.
Copy of Windows: Home Premium is best for most.
CPU: i7 you want.
GPU: Buy to budget.
Optional:
Aftermarket CPU cooler, only needed if plan to overclock, not recommended for novices.
SSD (solidstate disk) hooks up like regular HD, and install your games on those for a tremendous increase in game load times and zoning.
For most installations all you will need is a phillips head screwdriver.
While a Pro will assemble it about 30 minutes, anyone can do it about 2 hours, then install windows. I would say the most difficult parts are putting on the heatsink on the CPU (put on before putting board in case), and putting the board in (get a mid tower for plenty of room). Small cases while nice, are hard to work with and have cooling issues, and with a full size graphics card (like the 5xxx series) it would not fit anyway.
Motherboards now have all the connections you need for sound, network and USB devices. If you need Firewire or wireless, will have to make sure the motherboard has that.
I am no hardware expert, but I cannot bring myself to buy a premade system that does not contain exactly what I want. While I will buy a premade computer when I just need a computer (like for work), but for home I build what I want.
If you really want not to touch it. Northwest Falcon is good to do business with. Alienware is owned by Dell, its better to get one of their XPS systems right now, they are better made. Your paying a premium for them to build it, but they used tested configurations and support it.
I would not buy from Cyberpower mainly because they use economy parts, and you will not get much better support than if you built it yourself and tend to be minimum spec, which adds complications to upgrades. They however are for sale cheaper than a normal buyer can get the parts, and the computers are what they say, so they are a discount "hands off" buyer option.
ps. I see you ordered it, Zombie, How about a customer review? Looks like you got a nice configuration.
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I can tell you the people that work there are pretty cool. Haven't bought one myself, but they are at the very least competent. |
Originally Posted by Eislor
Falcon Northwest
I'm on my second Mach V now, they make good machines. Check out how you can customize it pretty much anyway you want. |
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Too late for Zombie Man, but for anyone else reading this... my wife and I have had very good luck with Xi Computer. They got their start selling custom-assembled CAD workstations, and have become a general-purpose reseller. Like Falcon Northwest and the other reputable system builders, they provide full product specifications for every component, and I've found their prices to be quite competitive. (I'll be buying a new desktop from them, myself, as soon as I decide on a graphics card.)
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I expect that from the time you hit the power-on button, ten seconds later your neighbors will be lighting candles.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I expect that from the time I hit the power-on button, ten seconds later I'll be entering Grandville with all settings maxed and no lag.
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It is a good day to fry.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I expect that from the time you hit the power-on button, ten seconds later your neighbors will be lighting candles.
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I shall when it arrives sometime next week.
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Originally Posted by Ascus
ps. I see you ordered it, Zombie, How about a customer review? Looks like you got a nice configuration.
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So, it's time to move up to Win7 and upgrade (replace) the 5 year old machine.
So, I'm looking for a desktop that is a Windows 7 machine with an i7 core and a Radeon 5870. I don't plan to ever run several monitors at once, so, I don't need a dual GPU card.
I'm not going to bother putting it together myself. I want one that's put together for me. But for the configuration I'm looking for, I've only found Dell's Alienware, and Velocity Micro that can put that all together (both for about $2,100). So, two questions:
1. Any other place to look?
2. Should I be wary of liquid cooling systems?
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