The Three Common Types of Downtime


Bardon

 

Posted

Hey All,

I wanted to take a few moments to chat with you about downtimes since I know they can be a point of contention for you sometimes. Downtime can definitely be a bummer, for they prevent people from logging into the game and using the service. We try and minimize them as much as possible because although they are a necessity we really don’t enjoy inconveniencing anyone. Of course, we want the game to be up and available to as many people as possible all of the time.

Like I said, however, downtimes are necessary for a variety of reasons. The first reason is maintenance. Maintenance in any online service is a fact of life. That being said, we're always working hard to reduce the length and amounts of downtimes that need to be performed. That’s why we've switched to the new trial schedule of only one maintenance period a week. We need to perform maintenance to keep the game functioning, but we need to reduce it to an acceptable level.

The second common cause of downtime is content patches. Patches introduce new features into the game, or change how features in the game currently work. These patches occur less frequently than maintenances. The upside to these patches is that you get some new content or system (or bug fix) along with them, that hopefully adds to your enjoyment of the game. When we make these kinds of patches, we try to include as many things as possible in them so that we can execute them fairly infrequently.

The final cause of downtimes is the most infrequent and is one used to address a problem in the game – for example – something that is not working as designed that is negatively impacting your game playing experience. Sometimes we are not at liberty to discuss the details of these issues, but please know that we only take the game down to address them only in the most serious of circumstances.

Anytime we have downtime one of the issues that OCR raises is “How will this affect players, particularly those players who live in the Oceanic region and whose prime play time is most impacted by these decisions?” This issue is always a consideration for us, but depending on the situation… regardless of who may be most impacted, a downtime may still be required. We've stepped up our efforts internally to properly notify the players of downtimes and will continue to try and give players as much notice as possible. We just do ask that you realize that true “emergency situations” do sometimes occur and this might affect the amount of notice that is given.

Sometimes, downtime caused by necessary fixes to the game follows a content patch, and this can make a downtime last longer than we’d like. We recognize this is an issue, and are very focused on providing stable content patches that reduce the need for fixes that cause additional downtime. When possible, we also fold in content upgrades with our regular maintenance schedule so as to not increase the frequency of downtime more than usual.

We wanted to go ahead and share this information so that you all really understood what was going on during downtimes and didn’t think that we did them simply to annoy you. There are always very good reasons for each and every one we initiate, although that might not always be visible on your end. So with that, we’d just like to thank you for taking the time to read this and educate yourself on the subject. We also want to thank you for your continued patience during any and every downtime that we might need to execute!


 

Posted

Thank you for taking the time to post.

And I'm really happy about only one scheduled maint per week.

I realise that the maintenance isnt personally directed at us in Oceanic time zones. And I glad there is an understanding that they effect us badly.

The schedule makes it hard to organise activities and bring new people in to play. Its a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, the downtime is picked to minimise disruption as there are lower numbers of people on at that time, but the more down times are at those times will lead to less people in our timezone being on at all.


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOcho View Post
We've stepped up our efforts internally to properly notify the players of downtimes and will continue to try and give players as much notice as possible.
This will help a great deal. Please remember that 24 hours notice is actually about 12 hours notice if it's released while we're all asleep.

I think you can understand the frustration experienced when Ghost Falcon posted that patches would be performed on Tuesdays, and then only two weeks later we get a patch on a Wednesday instead. This one didn't affect me because I was out of town, but I'm aware of a group that has a regular RP session on Tuesday nights that had moved that to Wednesday because they knew this patch was coming ... and then still got hit with the patch.

As for the clarification of the different kinds of downtime, clarity in these things is appreciated. However, I'm a little curious about this one line:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOcho View Post
When possible, we also fold in content upgrades with our regular maintenance schedule so as to not increase the frequency of downtime more than usual.
I'm curious why the servers had to go down to perform the patch and then down again less than 24 hours later to perform the regular maintenance. Surely this would have been a perfect opportunity to perform a combination of these two tasks as you put in your post.


 

Posted

Thanks for the post Ocho. I'm glad to hear that we are considered in any discussions about additional maintenance.

But mostly, I appreciate that you have changed the start time for tonight's extra maintenance ( ) to two hours later, back at the old time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOcho View Post
Maintenance in any online service is a fact of life
Send an employment contract my way and we'll see if it really is.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOcho View Post
We wanted to go ahead and share this information so that you all really understood what was going on during downtimes and didn’t think that we did them simply to annoy you.
I have no problems with whatever downtimes.

The downtime used to be smacked right across 9pm onwards for me...for the last 3 years. It was annoying but never a big deal, because I knew there had to be downtimes, and it had to be when least people were affected. The downtime changed to was actually much better for me, but apparently for some people the world is ending and the devs are screwing them over, yadda yadda.

*shrug* Doesn't matter to me what the downtimes are changing to, because the worst that can happen is it is goes back to the way it was before.


"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liliaceae View Post
But mostly, I appreciate that you have changed the start time for tonight's extra maintenance ( ) to two hours later, back at the old time.
Oh you're bloody kidding me??? There's another one tonight? That's three nights in a row. And as it was supposed to be only the second full night of play since the maintenance change a group of us had big plans. Or rather we did.

It's time for us to start seriously reviewing our options. I'm not paying $15 a month to NOT play Coh. Do you people at NCsoft realise that counting Friday in the last 10 times I've tried to play your game I've been kicked off early 7 times? Would you keep paying for a service like that?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freem View Post
I have no problems with whatever downtimes.
The point being that when you signed up for the game and when you last renewed your subscription, you did so based on your ability to accept that downtimes were going to be at 9pm. When I last did so, I did so on the basis that I could accept downtimes at 11pm.

Everyones circumstances are not the same, and the number of hours and the timeframes available to play regularly are going to vary. I envy you your ability for 9pm downtimes to not matter, but I can assure you they're a show stopper for me.

The "world is ending, the devs hate us" thing is an understandable emotional reaction from people who, like me, are not able to justify spending money on a subscription that we can't use between 40-60% of the time we want to.

And don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled about the new maintenance schedule. One night a week isn't that big a drama, and we get to play late on Fridays which is fantastic. I also accept that downtime is necessary for all the reasons The Ocho put, and a bad week will come from time-to-time.

However, I still think there's a gap between intention and practise on dowtime periods as I said in my earlier post in this thread.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricktu View Post
Oh you're bloody kidding me??? There's another one tonight? That's three nights in a row. And as it was supposed to be only the second full night of play since the maintenance change a group of us had big plans. Or rather we did.

It's time for us to start seriously reviewing our options. I'm not paying $15 a month to NOT play Coh. Do you people at NCsoft realise that counting Friday in the last 10 times I've tried to play your game I've been kicked off early 7 times? Would you keep paying for a service like that?
I suspect this is the whole point of The Ocho's post. Sometimes they have bad weeks and more downtime than usual is necessary.


 

Posted

Yes, somewhere in NC a manager is getting heat for slipping some "low risk" fixes into the halloween frequency patch. Turns out they weren't so low risk and the servers are unstable. Could someone give them a poke for me too, I know this behaviour far too well.


 

Posted

I do appreciate that people are paying attention to our plight. Thanks to TheOcho for coming over here and taking the time to address our concerns. That was very nice. Thank you for moving the maintenance time in an effort to be less obnoxious.

Seriously, if you guys need a hand we can organize a working bee. Lili, Min Min and Frozen Motion all all professional programmers of the highest skills and quality. It would be a great opportunity for us to return the love.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinMin View Post
I suspect this is the whole point of The Ocho's post. Sometimes they have bad weeks and more downtime than usual is necessary.
Yeah I know that bad weeks happen. I totally accept that screwups happen and they need to be fixed. What I don't accept is that they need to do it at the exact same time each occasion effectively making things very hard for one sub section of their customers. Would it be so hard to use a rolling schedule so that mulitple regions get a minor inconvenience once in a blue moon rather than one section constantly being the target?

Look guys ... sorry if I'm coming across all bitchy and snarky. The old camel's back has just broken is all. My wife is away interstate for work this week leaving me and the kids alone on wed-fri nights so I was really looking forward to catching up on some playing after all the recent shutouts... and look what happened. Each of the blasted nights i was hoping to play has a shutdown... You can only inconvenience a client so many times before it starts to feel personal.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalMidnight View Post
Seriously, if you guys need a hand we can organize a working bee. Lili, Min Min and Frozen Motion all all professional programmers of the highest skills and quality. It would be a great opportunity for us to return the love.
Ack!

I'm a manager these days so "highest skills and quality" probably translates more into "whatever I can bodgy up quickly to meet my deadline".

I could probably offer some PHB-skills and some good slave-driving expertise.


 

Posted

Then there's the problem of someone pulling out the server power cord so they can plug in the coffee machine...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liliaceae View Post
But mostly, I appreciate that you have changed the start time for tonight's extra maintenance ( ) to two hours later, back at the old time.
They did?

I think there's a source of confusion here because The Ocho posts his times in CST rather than PST which Avatea uses.

According to his annoucement:
Quote:
Since the publish of 1600.20091015.5T Wednesday morning, we have been tracking a bug that is affecting server stability and making some hostage missions impossible to finish. To resolve this issue, we are going to publish a build on Friday morning, October 30, 2009 between 6:00 AM and 8:00 AM Central.
Unfortunately 6am Central is the same old, same old time.

And yes, I've sent another PM requesting that times be put in the timeanddate.com fixed time format.


 

Posted

oh drek, more maint tonight.

Please consider that rotating schedule. So once in a blue moon it doesnt effect our prime time. And you dont get much more prime time than 9:30 on a friday.


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinMin View Post
I'm a manager these days so "highest skills and quality" probably translates more into "whatever I can bodgy up quickly to meet my deadline".

I could probably offer some PHB-skills and some good slave-driving expertise.
While I'm well aware of the gradual erosion of your once fearsome skills brought about by donning the neck-tie, my plan was for you to engage their PHBs in a meeting of the minds while Lili and Frozen get some real work done. I'll volunteer to write documents and test, because no one ever does that.

Don't be so hard on yourself, mate. I'm sure you are a _great_ manager, and now you fully understand why exceptional programmers often get paid less than call center operators and casual database entry staff.


 

Posted

Thanks Ocho, but like a number of the rest of us, I was already aware of the problems with managing apps on servers and are quite aware that patching and fixing has to happen and developers aren't godlike beings that always get things right first time. So the issue is not that it has to happen, but that it has to happen in my prime gaming time every time. Regular maintenance yes, we Aussies can plan other things for Thursday nights (though the TV schedule is lousy:-))but patches and fixes surely could sometimes be done at another time.


 

Posted

Thanks for posting Ocho, I think that a little feedback and forethought in this area goes a long way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liliaceae View Post
Yes, somewhere in NC a manager is getting heat for slipping some "low risk" fixes into the halloween frequency patch. Turns out they weren't so low risk and the servers are unstable. Could someone give them a poke for me too, I know this behaviour far too well.
Ironically enough, I'm absolutely that guy in my day job. Difference is that I've never made a mistake in my life.


 

Posted

Thanks for the clarification Ocho, but to be honest it just sounds like "Nothing's going to be done about this, it's just the way it goes and you people happen to be the ones who suffer every time. <shrug>"

Is there *nobody* actually doing change management at NCSoft?


 

Posted

Looks like if we weren't all aware of what scheduled maintenance involves and why it needs to be done, we can't claim ignorance now! I'd like to thank TheOcho for commenting on the issue.

For the other posters, here's something to remember, this is a trial. I'd quite like the trial to become permanent. Once a week has got to be better than twice a week right?

The rolling schedule idea has merit, but I don't think it would be economically viable to pay people to get out of bed in the middle of their night to do it.

Let's give the trial some more time, see how it flies when there aren't events like Halloween and icky server stability issues to sully our view of it.


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Posted

One issue with this trial during this period of the year is that it comes with a lot of holidays that in turn increases the load on the servers.

However, I'm not expecting an end-of-year patch (it would be in beta by now if they planned to have an I17 out before Xmas). So perhaps the maintenance will be more 'normal' in that regard.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killbot_5000 View Post
The rolling schedule idea has merit, but I don't think it would be economically viable to pay people to get out of bed in the middle of their night to do it.
There's no need for that to happen. No one is suggesting the schedule has to rotate the full 24 hours. Just doing it over the 8+ hours their offices are open would be sufficient.


 

Posted

I'd be very happy if they just stuck with the Thursday one, making an effort to keep it as short as possible, and making patches as infrequent as they can and on the scheduled day.

They've indicated that this is what they intend and I'll be thrilled if they can carry it through.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricktu View Post
There's no need for that to happen. No one is suggesting the schedule has to rotate the full 24 hours. Just doing it over the 8+ hours their offices are open would be sufficient.
Well, that might fly. Seriously though, I kinda consider maintenance time regularly scheduled, "Get a life" time! One to two hours per week of not being able to play the game is probably a good idea for our posture, wrists and psyches.


K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.