Quote:
Except that they were. I'm not assuming anything. In just about every thread on these forums the devolves into a flame war there is someone who says things like:|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Most times posters would just report my posts or start a flame war. There was RARELY someone calm enough to point out why my post was in poor taste. I have many comments in my CP from people that state calmly/rationally why my post was negative. And in most cases, they are right.
You are only assuming people were ALREADY posting that. From my experience, no they were NOT. |
So and so isn't being helpful, so and so is acting like a troll, so and so can speak their mind without being over sarcastic or insulting people.
I've had it said to ME many a times.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Quote:
And I've seen folks get -rep comments that had nothing to do with giving folks advice on how unhelpful a comment is, or posting style is.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Perhaps it would surprise you that people leaving anonymous comments didn't always post the sort of things you see in flame wars.
When people post in a thread, it's relatively uncommon that they specifically join an argument in progress just to explain why they think a particular post was good or bad. Instead, they usually post to weigh in on the argument itself, and usually only agree or disagree with specific posts. People didn't just use the reputation system for that. I would get rep comments that had nothing to do with an ongoing argument, but would comment on attitude, good or bad logic, etc. |
From all the -rep comments I've been seeing people POST in threads from the CP user page most of them don't follow what you just stated.
More often than not it's been useless trolling.
Also, see my above comment to Clouded also.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Read Uber's post Aura. It's obvious you don't understand. I don't really care to convince you either. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Except that they were. I'm not assuming anything. In just about every thread on these forums the devolves into a flame war there is someone who says things like:
So and so isn't being helpful, so and so is acting like a troll, so and so can speak their mind without being over sarcastic or insulting people. I've had it said to ME many a times. |
The rep system helped curbed my previous posting habits. I don't care if you believe it or even understand why.
To be fair, I see how that could be helpful to someone.
My point is after years of posting here, I'm shocked that such conversations and comments haven't happen before.
Also keep in mind there is ALREADY a system for this BEFORE the rep system came into place, where folks can iron out their differences instead of INSIDE the flame war threads.
It's called the Personal Message system.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I read it. There was already a system in place for what he just said.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Read Uber's post Aura. It's obvious you don't understand. I don't really care to convince you either.
The rep system helped curbed my previous posting habits. I don't care if you believe it or even understand why. |
It was called the PM system.
I'm not saying I don't believe you in your personal situations.
What I'm saying is that's not what the system was used for primarily or intended for. If it was the mods wouldn't have called it a forum game.
The mods can come in here and correct me outright, but I'd bet money the system was used primarily for anonymous trolling and flame wars.
I EASILY can see why they disabled it.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
It wasn't anonymous though. People leaving negative but constructive comments did not have to fear getting a PM back from the person they downed rep.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's called the Personal Message system. |
Quote:
Who cares about it's primary purpose? What does that have to do with what we are discussing? |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
What I'm saying is that's not what the system was used for primarily or intended for. If it was the mods wouldn't have called it a forum game.
|
Blah, that's my last post about this.
Quote:
No just a ban or a warning, when that was forwarded to a mod. |
Originally Posted by Clouded
It wasn't anonymous though. People leaving negative but constructive comments did not have to fear getting a PM back from the person they downed rep.
|
Which they've stated they have been monitoring.
I'd bet money that since the rep system was implemented, the folks who don't take ANY negative comments well (constructive even if they are) were probably bombarding them with forwarded neg rep issues.
Not surprising.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
My point was I get plain and simple why the system was neuteured.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Who cares about it's primary purpose? What does that have to do with what we are discussing?
Blah, that's my last post about this. |
Anyone could have predicted how this would go just by looking at the OLD system.
Nethergoat stated it better than I did.
Also I already stated that I get and appreciate how it helped you and Uber.
However, I would bet money the way you two used it IS NOT the way the MAJORITY of folks were using it. I'd bet money it WAS NOT used in a constructive way.
Which was PREDICTABLE.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
okay, I think I do need to clarify these two cracks of my own. They were made mostly because I'm aware of some avatars that after multiple screen-caps and chat logs covering griefing turned over to the devs... still can log into the game, and I'm aware of at least one that still has forum access. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
...I'm not positive, but I don't think our moderators can actually perma-ban any account without a court order...
...due to complex reasonings such players generally can't be removed without, again, pretty much getting a court order... |
So yes, I do know some people actually have gotten banned. I just really question sometimes just how effective the system is at removing players who do intentionally grief players in the game.
Best comment I've seen about this whole thing...
So sayeth Zombie Man:
Quote:
That's just classic! | "While the anonymous neg rep on the forums only led to Trolling and Hard Feelings, such a system may have a use in Real Life. I saw someone with Christmas lights on their house last night. I felt like putting in their mailbox a piece of paper where I draw a big red dot and label it: "I consider Xmas lights between Thanksgiving and Dec 1 to be too early, so imagine how big a jerk I consider you." |
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Quote:
lol!
|
Originally Posted by shard_warrior
|
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'm confused... They removed the ability to leave comments ENTIRELY? Is that what they did?
I'll point out that's NOT what I suggested. All I wanted was to have the comments be turned off if the rep system was turned off. That way, people like me who don't have any interest in the forum "game" would not be forced to put up with it, and those who DID have an interest in it could still take part.
I think I'm seeing another example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Again, here's how it SHOULD be.
1) Rep is disabled, comments are disabled.
2) Rep is enabled, comments are enabled.
Would that not have satisfied everyone?
Quote:
Why would anyone bother "outing" useful rep? People post about rep comments they want to grip about, and those are almost always the idiotic ones.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And I've seen folks get -rep comments that had nothing to do with giving folks advice on how unhelpful a comment is, or posting style is.
From all the -rep comments I've been seeing people POST in threads from the CP user page most of them don't follow what you just stated. More often than not it's been useless trolling. Also, see my above comment to Clouded also. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
No.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I'm confised... They removed the ability to leave comments ENTIRELY? Is that what they did?
|
You can still give rep to others and leave comments.
To see the rep/comments others have given you, click on the rep icon in your own posts. To see how this works, try it on a post you know you've received rep on.
To see a list of your posts, click in the space to the right of your avatar name to access the dropdown menu, or go to your CP -> Profile -> Statistics -> list posts.
Quote:
|
Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Quote:
Well, that is a good point.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Why would anyone bother "outing" useful rep? People post about rep comments they want to grip about, and those are almost always the idiotic ones.
|
But doesn't assuage my belief (with no admitted factual basis) that most weren't using it the way you and Clouded have commented on.
The two times they've tried this (once in game) and once again on the forums doesn't give me any optimistic feelings.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Which works fine.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
No.
You can still give rep to others and leave comments. To see the rep/comments others have given you, click on the rep icon in your own posts. To see how this works, try it on a post you know you've received rep on. To see a list of your posts, click in the space to the right of your avatar name to access the dropdown menu, or go to your CP -> Profile -> Statistics -> list posts. |
Those who want to rep and see comments can.
Those who don't, don't.
Really should have been that way from the start. Glad it works this way now. So folks like Uber and Clouded and still use it. Those who find it utterly useless can ignore it in complete bliss.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
That still leaves all those people choosing to use the rep system wasting moderator time with PMs about nastigrams in their UserCP.| Would that not have satisfied everyone? |
You missed the point entirely about why they've done what they've done. It wasn't for OUR benefit.
In the end, it was fun while it lasted, I got capped rep without farming for it, moving on to the next forum thing.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
The PM system is not (a) anonymous or (b) explicitly designed to leave feedback. Expanding on point (b) any feedback given in a PM does not actually have any visible impact on the person it is given to, which reinforces the motivation for people who think another poster should change. After all, if enough people agree with your rep feedback on a given poster, they are visibly branded with that feedback's effect, literally for better or worse.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's called the Personal Message system.
|
In other words, while people may use PMs that way, they have no special motivations to do so, unlike a system specifically intended for that use.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
It's not worth that much effort. I'm not going to slog through my own list of posts, clicking on my rep icon in every one to see if anyone left me any rep for it.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
No.
You can still give rep to others and leave comments. To see the rep/comments others have given you, click on the rep icon in your own posts. To see how this works, try it on a post you know you've received rep on. To see a list of your posts, click in the space to the right of your avatar name to access the dropdown menu, or go to your CP -> Profile -> Statistics -> list posts. |
I actively feel sorry for anyone who does that more than, like, once.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I'd argue with b) as I've seen folks post "that me and so and so took it to PMs and ironed out our differences". Hell I've done it with folks. I've seen folks who used to be really nasty mellow out BEFORE the rep system came into existence. So again I find b) arguable.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
The PM system is not (a) anonymous or (b) explicitly designed to leave feedback. Expanding on point (b) any feedback given in a PM does not actually have any visible impact on the person it is given to, which reinforces the motivation for people who think another poster should change. After all, if enough people agree with your rep feedback on a given poster, they are visibly branded with that feedback's effect, literally for better or worse.
In other words, while people may use PMs that way, they have no special motivations to do so, unlike a system specifically intended for that use. |
Unless you TURN OFF PMs totally, then yeah you can't receive feedback. Also as someone ALREADY posted, the branding is IRRELEVANT to some posters. As they still continue to post trollish thread after thread and post after post.
My point/guess is the usage you are explaining probably WASN'T common.
Hence why the mods took the action they just did.
A system's intent and it's actual use are often two different things.
As the devs in this game (and forum) have learned over and over again.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I agree. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's not worth that much effort.
|
But it's a compromise, so those who really really really really neeeeeed to see their comments can do so.
Quote:
|
Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Quote:
The most optimal way it could have been done was those who don't want to see comments or rep don't. Those who do, do.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's not worth that much effort. I'm not going to slog through my own list of posts, clicking on my rep icon in every one to see if anyone left me any rep for it.
I actively feel sorry for anyone who does that more than, like, once. |
Of course we don't know if the software can do that. Only the mods do.
EDIT: Personally, I'd rather the entire rep/commenting system never have been implemented in the first place. But we as a player base weren't really consulted on that aspect. Unless there was some secret beta for the new forums that most didn't know about.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Ah, so what's all the hue and cry about?|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
No.
You can still give rep to others and leave comments. To see the rep/comments others have given you, click on the rep icon in your own posts. To see how this works, try it on a post you know you've received rep on. To see a list of your posts, click in the space to the right of your avatar name to access the dropdown menu, or go to your CP -> Profile -> Statistics -> list posts. |
Wait, I see a problem (from my perspective). It seems negative comments can still be posted on posts made by people with rep disabled. They just don't see them. To me, this is actually worse, in a way. Part of what irritated me was that people were making insuting or derogatory comments and just getting away with it. With this "tweak" they still can, it's just made it harder to call them on it.
Moreover, it's now harder for those that DID enjoy the rep game to enjoy it.
If I have rep disabled, no one should be able to comment on my posts, period. This isn't rocket science, why is it so hard to get it right?
Folks are actually saying that the FLAME WARS and pages of arguments with other posters (in some instances years of this), wasn't even a SMALL hint that folks should change their behavior? But an anonymous commenting system was?
EDIT: I'm specifically addressing the part I've bolded above. Folks, people were probably ALREADY posting that so and so wasn't being helpful NON ANONYMOUSLY. Someone needs to explain it to me.
When people post in a thread, it's relatively uncommon that they specifically join an argument in progress just to explain why they think a particular post was good or bad. Instead, they usually post to weigh in on the argument itself, and usually only agree or disagree with specific posts. People didn't just use the reputation system for that. I would get rep comments that had nothing to do with an ongoing argument, but would comment on attitude, good or bad logic, etc.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA