Better Duo Partner for Empath
By
BlackBellatrix,
Posted on: 2009-10-27 01:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Between the two I'd go with the Sonic/Fire, just because it's less commonly seen.
Personally, I'd go Sonic/Mental blaster. Drain Psyche stacks with the RAs nicely, and it has slightly more ranged AoE ability so you don't have to get right up in their face unless you want to. 2 Howls and Psychic Scream will do a number on tightly packed mobs.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
I just figured that with AB, she'd be at the Regen/Recovery Cap anyway, but the -regen in it is something that might help us further decimate large targets.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Between the two I'd go with the Sonic/Fire, just because it's less commonly seen.
Personally, I'd go Sonic/Mental blaster. Drain Psyche stacks with the RAs nicely, and it has slightly more ranged AoE ability so you don't have to get right up in their face unless you want to. 2 Howls and Psychic Scream will do a number on tightly packed mobs. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I just figured that with AB, she'd be at the Regen/Recovery Cap anyway..
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Not likely, at least in terms of Regen. I used to duo my Claws/Regen scrapper with my wife's Emp, and he doesn't reach the cap with his standing regen (Integration, Health, and Fast Healing) + Instant Healing + AB + Regen Aura, at least I have no reason to believe he does. If I'm wrong, someone more knowledgable feel free to correct me, but my understanding was that the Regen cap can't be easily reached (assuming there even is a cap). AB's recovery though, is definately overkill unless used to help a blaster recover from a nuke crash.
I'd go for the blaster in a heartbeat. It's great fun as a blaster to have the buffs/heals of an Emp, and you'll never be bored trying to keep the blaster on his feet! 
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
This is what I would pair up with an Emp/Sonic:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Secondary Power Set: Fire Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Electrical Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: X-Ray Beam Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(15), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Ring of Fire Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(37), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39)
Level 2: Irradiate Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(3), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(3), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 4: Combustion Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(5), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 6: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 8: Combat Jumping Krma-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 10: Fire Sword Circle Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(11), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 12: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed Empty(A)
Level 16: Health Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 18: Cosmic Burst Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(19), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(40)
Level 22: Blazing Aura M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(23), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(23), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(25), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Build Up Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Aim Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(46)
Level 28: Proton Volley Mantic-Acc/Dmg(A), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Mantic-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(29), Mantic-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(34), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 30: Neutron Bomb Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(31), Posi-Dmg/Rng(31), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Atomic Blast Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 35: Fire Sword C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Stealth LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Static Discharge Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Charged Armor S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(48), RctvArm-ResDam(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Surge of Power RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam(50)
Level 49: EM Pulse RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
15% DamageBuff
16.4% Defense(Smashing)
16.4% Defense(Lethal)
3.94% Defense(Fire)
3.94% Defense(Cold)
6.44% Defense(Energy)
6.44% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
22.4% Defense(Melee)
6.13% Defense(Ranged)
4.88% Defense(AoE)
6.75% Max End
78.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
52% Enhancement(Accuracy)
76.8 HP (6.37%) HitPoints
Knockback (Mag -4)
Knockup (Mag -4)
7.5% (0.13 End/sec) Recovery
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I did not include purples since I'd imagine most players(myself included) cannot afford them but substitute purples into the build where you like.
I prioritized recharge, followed by melee defense. I thought to grab Burn and/or Hot Feet but neither of the duo would be able to lock mobs in place to counter the fear those powers cause.
Substitute Surge of Power with Shocking Bolt for more recharge.
In closing I will add that the blaster would have melee softcapped with Fortitude buff.
Quote:
My brother and me ran a duo, into the late 40's before he got distracted with other games. Punk. |
Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I built an Empathy/Sonic as part of a two Empath duo that fizzled out around level 40. I'm finding I'm having a great time playing the toon just as part of a team and am planning on IOing him out pretty heavily. My friend wants to create a toon to play with me and I've been having trouble deciding between two.
1) Another Empathy/Sonic Defender. The advantages to this one are pretty obvious. 2) A Sonic/Fire Blaster. My Empath will have enough recharge to keep Adrenalin Boost perma on the Blaster and with dual Leadership and the Blaster running the Fighting Pool, she'll likely be very survivable. So, what do you think? Main activities will be... well, anything. Duo'ing TFs, some farming, etc etc. |
I was an Emp/Sonic too. He was an Assult Rifle/Em blaster.
Frankly, it was kind of SICK what we did as a duo. I could keep him alive through almost anything, and he just riddled hordes of mobs with holes. He's poped on a few times laterly, we've jacked up the spawn count to 8, and frankly it's been kind of epic to see what FullAuto just kill 16 or 20 people dead a go.
A well played empath can keep any AT and class alive through almost anything so long as your partner isn't an idiot.
(my kid bro is accually a good gamer, tho i'll never admit it..)I'd go with whatever he has fun with. That's how you make a duo last, fun, not effectiveness. My Fav duo was my Kat/Invlun scrapper and a RL buddies Fire/Ice/Fire blaster. We, had NO support, no debuffs, no buffs, no heals... and we ran on unyealding. Every fight was a FIGHT. Missions hard fought, levels gaind in blood and tears. Best time of my life.(in coh obviously) FAR from the most effective duo. That's my advice. Play whats fun with friends. It'll work out everytime.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
You could go old-school, taking a page from the old Green Machine sg, and duo with another empath defender. Believe it or not, this can work very well, especially, if both of you are disciplined in keeping each other buffed up. Also, you two can alternate casting your Regen and Recov Auras so the buffs are perma or nearly perma.
If you add a third empath, everyone can have double-fort buffs and the team will become a true force of nature.
no comparison, Emp/Son
Between AB, RAs (which can be staggered to make it perma) you're at capped regen and recovery, slot a single endmod in AB and you've got enough to nuke without penalty
throw in leadership and fortitude and you're doing blaster level damage while having the safety of a perma- IH and Elude scrapper.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
sonic fire all the way!!! lol the reason i vote on this is because you are an empath sonic great defense character for duo, now for the duo to be complete you need a more offensive character, the blaster. the blaster will be your damage and you will be the hp and support. it really is just that simple.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Desitre: With two emp/sonics, you're BOTH the damage and BOTH the support. The simple answer might be the wrong one here. Without someone putting Adrenaline Boost on you permanently, you can't get Adrenaline Boost on someone permanently. For instance.
120% -Resist is a lot more than 60% -Resist. Fortitude + two Assaults, that's about 70% +Damage on both of you.
It's pretty severe.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Yeah, I am well aware of the advantages of having another Empath, since I went from 1-38 with another Emp/Sonic.
As far as not having Perma-AB without AB on me, I plan on having high enough Recharge that that will not be a problem. Still may tell her to roll and Emp but we'll see.
We played as a Sonic/MM and my Emp/Sonic and I wasn't impressed with her survivability compared to the dual Empaths. To be fair, she's only 15 and unslotted right now and hasn't dipped into Fighting/Leadership and I've only got a few sets slotted right now so I'm still a little off of Perma AB (It's usually fine if I stagger AB and the Auras). I'm thinking it'll be better once she gets Tough/Weave and the +3 Def IO. I did notice that her damage is pretty damn good, even unslotted and can only imagine it getting better.
Well if another Emp is not in the picture I might be very tempted to go with a Fire/Sonic controller. Your Emp with RA and AB will make one of the things making this controller set pairing painful to level mostly go away. Sonic Resonance will make one of the painful things about being the sole Emp on a team, namely mez, go away (Clarity and Sonic Dispersion). Fire backed by Emp buffs and all the sonic -resist flying about is a ton of damage output. Think it would be fun and tend to melt things quickly.
Obviously I don't know as much as others with respect to this game but I cannot imagine 2 emp/sonics putting out more dps than an emp/sonic paired with an archery, sonic or fire blaster.
I"m n00b.
Quote:
Actually, this is an interesting idea. Fire/Sonic has always intrigued me as a very strong combination, the big drawback is endurance, which is a non-issue with an Emp on the team.|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Well if another Emp is not in the picture I might be very tempted to go with a Fire/Sonic controller. Your Emp with RA and AB will make one of the things making this controller set pairing painful to level mostly go away. Sonic Resonance will make one of the painful things about being the sole Emp on a team, namely mez, go away (Clarity and Sonic Dispersion). Fire backed by Emp buffs and all the sonic -resist flying about is a ton of damage output. Think it would be fun and tend to melt things quickly.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by milehigh77
Obviously I don't know as much as others with respect to this game but I cannot imagine 2 emp/sonics putting out more dps than an emp/sonic paired with an archery, sonic or fire blaster.
I"m n00b. |
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Quote:
I never said anything about AB. I also see your point, I honestly have never played a sonic character, never felt the need too. I also never was too big into the defender scene, I have a 50 empathy defender but thats a healer, not a defender. So I guess I could agree with you that with sonic/emp u have both the damage and the support. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Desitre: With two emp/sonics, you're BOTH the damage and BOTH the support. The simple answer might be the wrong one here. Without someone putting Adrenaline Boost on you permanently, you can't get Adrenaline Boost on someone permanently. For instance.
120% -Resist is a lot more than 60% -Resist. Fortitude + two Assaults, that's about 70% +Damage on both of you. It's pretty severe. |
The best combo I have seen with an emp was with a D3, the heals kept them both at full health and the energy blast the emp had with the D3's DoTs and holds kicked some major butt.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Difference between an Emp+Emp duo and pretty much any Blaster+Emp duo is the relative weakness and vulnerability of the Emp as they get essentially no buffs from the Blaster. Particularly while leveling this means the Emp is going to face and experience getting mezzed, running short of endurance, has less to hit and damage buffs etc.. So while the Blaster may produce more damage this is countered by a much weaker output by the partner Emp. The speed thru mobs by either duo is also heavily influenced by the pace the slowest member of the duo is capable of maintaining. Post level 33 the Emp+Emp duo is essentially running full out non-stop on SO's, a pace the Blaster+Emp duo might hope to match with difficulty and will almost certainly require more than SO's to do so.
Quote:
What the heck is that D3 doing wrong? Darkest Night + Fearsome stare slotted with 3 -to-hit is more than enough to put almost everything at the to-hit floor, Shadow Fall, Dark Servant, Tenebrous Tentacles and Night Fall push everything way past it.
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Originally Posted by Desitre
The best combo I have seen with an emp was with a D3, the heals kept them both at full health and the energy blast the emp had with the D3's DoTs and holds kicked some major butt.
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No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Quote:
Oh, I definitely agree in the situation of leveling them both up. What I'm talking about, however, is that I already have a level 40 Empathy/Sonic Defender and she'll just be rolling a new toon (prolly PL it to 22, anyway.).
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Originally Posted by Doomguide
Difference between an Emp+Emp duo and pretty much any Blaster+Emp duo is the relative weakness and vulnerability of the Emp as they get essentially no buffs from the Blaster. Particularly while leveling this means the Emp is going to face and experience getting mezzed, running short of endurance, has less to hit and damage buffs etc.. So while the Blaster may produce more damage this is countered by a much weaker output by the partner Emp. The speed thru mobs by either duo is also heavily influenced by the pace the slowest member of the duo is capable of maintaining. Post level 33 the Emp+Emp duo is essentially running full out non-stop on SO's, a pace the Blaster+Emp duo might hope to match with difficulty and will almost certainly require more than SO's to do so.
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Quote:
I know, I never said the d3 was doing anything wrong, I said it was one of the best combos I have seen.
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Originally Posted by Psyonico
What the heck is that D3 doing wrong? Darkest Night + Fearsome stare slotted with 3 -to-hit is more than enough to put almost everything at the to-hit floor, Shadow Fall, Dark Servant, Tenebrous Tentacles and Night Fall push everything way past it.
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Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
Quote:
Even at higher level's unless and until the blaster and emp have both heavily invested in IO's I believe the emp+emp pairing will maintain a much more vigorous pace at damage levels as a team between the two that over time will likely well exceed the blaster+emp mostly owing to inevitable downtime that will occur with a duo with a sole empath. To keep up the damage over the long haul the blaster doesn't just have to do a bit more damage or even a lot more damage they have to do a great deal more to keep to the overall damage output of the team as high as the emp pair. With the emp pair they are 24-7 at the recovery cap, 24-7 at the regen cap, 24-7 at the defense soft cap vs "ALL" (and few other things stronger as well, such as the teams +to hit average). The blaster+emp duo is unlikely to be at any of these as a pair and neither will be there 24-7. Will the emp+blaster pair be close enough often enough to overcome that deficit in strong bursts of performance *shrug* honestly I'm not nearly enough of a number cruncher to know. All I can say is I feel that is a lot of ground to make up for the lack of mutual support at all levels and builds the emp+blaster duo is facing in comparison. I see the blaster+emp duo as higher peaks and lower valleys. The emp+emp duo meanwhile is essentially a plateau who's height is somewhat less than the others peaks but higher than their valleys.|
Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
Oh, I definitely agree in the situation of leveling them both up. What I'm talking about, however, is that I already have a level 40 Empathy/Sonic Defender and she'll just be rolling a new toon (prolly PL it to 22, anyway.).
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Edit: To include the word "soft" with respect to the defense to (all).
Quote:
I am interested enough in this question that I have started an Emp/Sonic duo with the wife to compare. Its possible we should have gone Emp/Rifle or Archery, but I wanted to go Sonic for the value vs. hard targets. The wife and I both enjoy playing Empathy anyway, so it will be a fun learning process (we have run multiple emp teams before, just never together and never on purpose).|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Will the emp+blaster pair be close enough often enough to overcome that deficit in strong bursts of performance *shrug* honestly I'm not nearly enough of a number cruncher to know. All I can say is I feel that is a lot of ground to make up for the lack of mutual support at all levels and builds the emp+blaster duo is facing in comparison. I see the blaster+emp duo as higher peaks and lower valleys. The emp+emp duo meanwhile is essentially a plateau who's height is somewhat less than the others peaks but higher than their valleys.
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Its hard for me to imagine outdoing a Fire/Fire (or /Elec or /MM) blaster. Against an AV, the stacking Sonic blasts might overcome the better base damage, but vs. anything else, I think the AoE of the blaster, combined with a ridiculous single target capability will be hard for a defender duo to beat.
Conveniently, we got to team with some blasters while on our duo. We were joined by one SG mate on their AR/Dev; we leveled from 9-14. While we could both Howl, Scream, and Shriek, we could not draw aggro from the blaster (a straggler here and there, of course, but generally the blaster got it all), even when we attacked first, after Buckshot or M30, they would all switch off of us. Once we hit 12, everyone had Fort, of course, and the blaster got the double; spawn melty goodness.
Another SG mate logged in with a level 12 blaster and we ran Posi. We found it was much better to double Fort both blasters, and forgo it on ourselves.
At low levels, on a small team, IME, the emp-blaster duo performs "better" than an emp-emp duo, defeating enemies more quickly and moving through missions faster.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Yep I would expect the Emp+Blaster duo to perform better in 2 general circumstances. First any time below AB ... It's really vital to provided the +recharge to fuel the Emps. Secondly in any given burst of performance such as against a particular hard target such as an EB or AV. In any short spike of activity, assuming usage of inspires and accolades, the Blasters output is going to be very high relatively and the emp can likely predict needing for example breakfrees, +def and +resist inspires to enable him to continue to also maintain high output when auras are down, avoid getting mezzed as the blaster gets nailed by the AV etc.. It's quite possible by choosing to up the size of the mobs and chowing on inspires that the Blaster+Emp duo can continue to perform at or above my hypothetical plateau the Emp duo is sitting on. Where I think an Emp duo has the largest edge over the Blaster+Emp pairing is over several higher difficulty "normal" missions. If both pairs are looking at more or less a series of +4 or +5 missions against say malta, rikti or arachnos set for large team there's no particular time where the Blaster+Emp pair knows to chow down hard on inspires, temp powers etc ... its then, over that period, I expect the valleys to play a role in whether the Emp duo really can set the plateau higher than the Blaster+Emp duo can manage to sustain.
I think I'd better just rope a third in and do two Emps and a Blaster. :P
Quote:
Might as well go with a Sonic defender at that point. 1 Emp, 1 Sonic, 1 Fire. Burn it all. Of course, at 3 people, now the force multiplication really starts to kick in and dropping the blaster becomes more desirable.|
Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I think I'd better just rope a third in and do two Emps and a Blaster. :P
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It will be interesting to see if perma-AB and rotating RAs will make the Emp-Emp duo better than the Emp-Blaster duo.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I built an Empathy/Sonic as part of a two Empath duo that fizzled out around level 40. I'm finding I'm having a great time playing the toon just as part of a team and am planning on IOing him out pretty heavily. My friend wants to create a toon to play with me and I've been having trouble deciding between two.
1) Another Empathy/Sonic Defender. The advantages to this one are pretty obvious.
2) A Sonic/Fire Blaster. My Empath will have enough recharge to keep Adrenalin Boost perma on the Blaster and with dual Leadership and the Blaster running the Fighting Pool, she'll likely be very survivable.
So, what do you think? Main activities will be... well, anything. Duo'ing TFs, some farming, etc etc.