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I dabble in sketching from time to time. I like drawing anime-style superheroes. I'm not a professional artist, but I'm not awful either. The only message I convey is that I think it's pretty cool when a superhero punches a bad guy, monster, or evil alien really really hard.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Well see, the difference is that in a song, or a painting or a movie, art is used to convey a message of some kind; often personal, sometimes politcial, but always very important. At least to the person who made it.
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| If you think this game is art, I'd like to know why you think so. No trite or sarcastic responses, pretty please. I'm quite serious. Why do you think it is? My mind is certainly open to the possibility. |
There's an old and often tossed-around saying: "I don't know what art is, but I like it." You don't have to know what art is if you enjoy something, Coyote.
Whether it's a Van Gogh painting, Michelangelo sculpture, or some random five-year-old kindergartener fingerpainting a picture of his mommy, if someone takes time to render a creative image in any medium, it's art.
A team of 40+ people working thousands of hours to release a video game full of music, background images, stories and characters? You're right, that's not art. That's art*4 by my count.
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Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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...I really have no idea what to say to that...
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
There are people who make a living specifically by pontificating on the subject of game design?
I'm in the wrong racket.
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I think you missed the part where I said I think videogames are approaching a status of "artform". I just don't think it's really there yet and to insist that it is is premature.|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
How can one say that entertainment is not an art form in one post, and then site the Hollywood establishments for recognition of television and cinema (as a basis of defining an art form) in a previous post? Not to be overly blunt, but that's a hypocritical fallacy.
If one embraces cinema, television, theater, musicals, dancing, music, and other forms of entertainment as art, why then should one make an exception for video games? Are they not created by artists? Do they not entertain us? Are they not criticized by the public and professionals alike? In regards to the "ultimate message", it is true that not every video game is a narrative with a moral at the end, or a compelling story. However, the same can be said about many television shows. Yet still, to cite a specific example, shows like Robot Chicken still win Emmys and are recognized by their peers and their audiences, despite not having much content at all. And that's to say nothing for Seinfeld, as another example. Yet, these are still recognized art forms. That's my 2 infl. Color me in the same corner as BAB in this debate. |
And come to think of it, this wasn't the original argument now, was it? I've led you all down a spectacular tangent! My bad, I guess.
People have made sure to note there's plenty of art done for this game, as if I had never noticed it before, haha. You will also note that I actually had nothing bad to say about the art in the game, as I was talking about the game's mechanics (i.e. its rules).
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Wow, that sure sounds a lot like certain definitions of pornography then!|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
There's an old and often tossed-around saying: "I don't know what art is, but I like it." You don't have to know what art is if you enjoy something, Coyote.
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Wait! So that means...
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I like how you're justifying everything you're saying by adding a "...I just don't think video games are an art NOW!" at the end of every argument.
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I think you missed the part where I said I think videogames are approaching a status of "artform". I just don't think it's really there yet and to insist that it is is premature.
And come to think of it, this wasn't the original argument now, was it? I've led you all down a spectacular tangent! My bad, I guess.
People have made sure to note there's plenty of art done for this game, as if I had never noticed it before, haha. You will also note that I actually had nothing bad to say about the art in the game, as I was talking about the game's mechanics (i.e. its rules).
Video games have been, are, and will always be art forms.
It has nothing to do with age of the industry. Pong was one of the earliest forms of this art.
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Yes, pornography is an art. So is sex.
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Wow, that sure sounds a lot like certain definitions of pornography then!
Wait! So that means...
It has creativity.
Do you really wanna debate this here?
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Did you know that the 'Oscar' and the 'Tony' awards are given out by organizations of those in the movie and theater biz as self-congratulatory awards? And did you know the video game biz gives out it's own self-congratulatory awards?|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Certainly most games out there right now would not count, and they are not recognized as such by any art academy or instition that I know of (is there an equivalent of the Oscar or Tony award for them? I'd certainly like to know!).
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The movie biz organization can call itself an academy, but that doesn't make it so, nor does it make it a official arbiter of what is art or not.
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Well, considering that I said that from the very start of this argument!
No, no... I realize it's easier to just dismiss someone who disagrees with you offhandedly.
Oh wait, I did that first to you didn't I? I was actually going to call a stand-down with you since I figured it was just a mere misunderstanding. But, yeah.
That this thread seems to be rapidly making me into a pariah is a good indicator that I might be onto something. I won't be swayed by the groupthink, ok thanks!
Yep. Porn = art. It's a creative display recorded on a medium for others to enjoy (or not enjoy) according to their tastes.
You can't say stuff isn't art just because some people don't like it. A gilded turd in an art museum: I think it's gross and ridiculous, but obviously somebody thinks it's art. Someone would likely argue that the golden shell represents the face that civilization displays in public, and the fecal matter on the inside is the contempt we feel for everyone else. I'd argue that the artist needed a piece for the following day, had some gold spray paint and too many bran muffins, and was likely on drugs.
In any case, I suppose I can't disagree that that's a creative way to deal with excrement...
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Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Sure! Why not? I know where you're going with it!|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Yes, pornography is an art. So is sex. It has creativity. Do you really wanna debate this here? |
'Cause then that means that trolling is also an artform. Dare I say that it is performance art!
And some people are really, really good at it. ;D
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Did you know that the 'Oscar' and the 'Tony' awards are given out by organizations of those in the movie and theater biz as self-congratulatory awards? And did you know the video game biz gives out it's own self-congratulatory awards?
The movie biz organization can call itself an academy, but that doesn't make it so, nor does it make it a official arbiter of what is art or not. |
So let's say the British Academy of Film and Television Arts gave away awards for Video games, would that count?
see link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...me-Awards-2009
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Sure! Why not? I know where you're going with it!
'Cause then that means that trolling is also an artform. Dare I say that it is performance art! And some people are really, really good at it. ;D |
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So is graffiti, but it's against the rules too. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Sure! Why not? I know where you're going with it!
'Cause then that means that trolling is also an artform. Dare I say that it is performance art! And some people are really, really good at it. ;D |
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Yes, pornography is an art. So is sex. It has creativity. Do you really wanna debate this here? |
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
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[tongue-in-cheek]Why how can you even say that, BaBs? It's not like you put any effort into this game.[/tongue-in-cheek]|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I don't know how to respond to this post other than to disagree as vehemently as one can disagree with another human being.
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Wow, what a jerk post, BaBs is right. Video games are art.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Man, I should've read the rest of the thread. Why don't you come over to my house and tell me what I should like, and shouldn't. Art is art. If you don't like it, tough--"eye of the beholder" and all that. Just because you don't like it doesn't authorize a book burning.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Wow, that sure sounds a lot like certain definitions of pornography then!
Wait! So that means... |
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
To the OP. What they showed at Hero Con was a small portion to whet your appetite for the upcoming expansion. Unfortunately to you instead of a nice tray of chips and dip, or some other party snack you like, it came across as escargot or some such. Sorry you were disappointed. We'll need to wait much closer to the release of Going Rogue to really see what the appetizer, main course and dessert will really look like. Then if it turns out to be "grandma's not so special recipe"... er uhm.. nvm. 
At the moment I think it's way to early to see what we're really going to get with the expansion.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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You have to try a lot harder than that to offend me, hun.
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
LOL! No hard feelings then? I ain't a complete *******, y'know!
I have more serious stuff in life to worry than whether or not you think video games are an art or not.
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You think people who have a different opinion from you are Nazis? Why don't you come over to my house and tell me how I should think and how I shouldn't? Opinions are opinions. If you don't like, tough--"one person's meat" and all that. Just because you think differently doesn't authorize a [**REDACTED** WARNING: GODWIN ALERT! GODWIN ALERT!]
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Man, I should've read the rest of the thread. Why don't you come over to my house and tell me what I should like, and shouldn't. Art is art. If you don't like it, tough--"eye of the beholder" and all that. Just because you don't like it doesn't authorize a book burning.
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Well this being the Internet and all, so many people get so worked up over so little! I just wanted to be sure.
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
You have to try a lot harder than that to offend me, hun. I have more serious stuff in life to worry than whether or not you think video games are an art or not. |
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
There are people who make a living specifically by pontificating on the subject of game design?
I'm in the wrong racket. |
Ingame desing, the theory of practicality, ant sex, why whales can't fly, the influence of modern woman's farts upon the ozone layer, why atoms are so small and how their ego is so big, lady gaga and her peepee. As long as there's millions in it people will dedicate most of their life to it. They already dedicated years for seedless fruit and a comercial verion of the astronaut pen, cause pencils just weren't enough.
[/off topic]
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...so you just played the 'Nazi' card in an arguement about art forms. Wow. Kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't we?
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
You think people who have a different opinion from you are Nazis? Why don't you come over to my house and tell me how I should think and how I shouldn't? Opinions are opinions. If you don't like, tough--"one person's meat" and all that. Just because you think differently doesn't authorize a [**REDACTED** WARNING: GODWIN ALERT! GODWIN ALERT!]
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Statesman said let there be heroes, and there were heroes.
Lord Recluse said let there be villains, and there were villains.
NCsoft said let there be nothing, and there was nothing.
He said "book burning". Yeah, what was I thinking? Sheesh. They never burned books!
Oh wait...
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I think we're all scrapping that barrel bottom when we start discussing the concept of personal opinion. No offence. I think the concept of ''personal opinion'' and ''personal taste'' should be known and understood among adults and visible when debating or discussing anything in general.
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Originally Posted by Khellendrosiic
...so you just played the 'Nazi' card in an arguement about art forms. Wow. Kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't we?
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